Jim Sagel is right. People; they really ARE resembling the Reich.

[lildreamer316]

This really IS a page out of Hitler's playbook. GO ahead; flame away; if you can't see it you are blind. This Happy Holidays vs.Merry Christmas thing is almost completely aimed at the Jewish community. Nice easy backhanded way of getting at them; too. I almost sorta fell for it.

SHIT this is scary. It's right there in front of our faces. I'm convinced.
They've just upped the ante by 1000. Sorry to tell ya. However, a lackluster reaction to it may prevent it; or may not.I'm not sure about that..

[mr_hat]

1. I think it's aimed more at the evil secular humanists. The Jews >

are useful, Rapture-wise. So the fundies smile and make nice with such constructs as "Judeo-Christian" this 'n that.

[Chautauqua]

15. Not really

If you follow the issue, it started up when mainstream Jewish organizations like the ADL and the URJ started openly criticizing the White House and the "Religious Right".

Of course, the timing could be coincidental but I think that's fairly naieve.

[FreedomAngel82]

24. True

That is true. And they're all very big on Israel. So I doubt they would try that one. But they might us liberals and that's my deep dark fear. :\ Even those of us who are Christian's. I need to find the book "1984" now.

[Ladyhawk]

34. I read it fairly recently. One thing this admin does that is very

Orwellian is name everything its exact opposite: No Child Left Behind, Patriot Act, Operation Iraqi Freedom, etc. The weed even projects his faults onto "evildoers" in his speeches. Everything he says about Saddam or Osama bin Laden points right back at him.

[AspenRose]

2. With a little race baiting towards blacks for good measure

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5505084

Blacks and Jews need to politically unite. They have more in common experience-wise in this country than most people think.

[Coastie for Truth]

18. Back in the late 1960's the Real Elites

(I define "Real Elites" as the Fifth Generation Andover/Exeter -> Harvard/Yale/Princeton -> "Hasty Pudding"/"Skull and Bones" -> Gentleman's Club Types; as in the Bushes)

Back to the thread, the "Real Elites" set out to deliberately drive a wedge between the Blacks and Jews in the college admissions process. In the late 1960's the wedge was driven at Ivy League admissions (see, e.g.,

[stevedeshazer]

3. Please forgive my ignorance

Who is Jim Sagel and what did he say about this?

[lildreamer316]

7. Sorry; here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5509346&mesg_id=5509346

[stevedeshazer]

11. Thanks

:)

[AlinPA]

4. I think its more of their "Christians are being persecuted" crap that they

have been claiming the last few years. Or "Christians are victims of evil secularists" ---something like that. They are always spewing that vomit.

[lildreamer316]

6. No, really;

Think about it in the frame of the WAY that the 3rd R wormed their way into the German public's mind. I am not saying that Jews are the ONLY target; but they are certainly a large part of it. It is SO obvious. SO easy to see now.

[FreedomAngel82]

25. When it's not true at all

I've been more "persecuted" for being a liberal than I have for being a Christian.

[amber dog democrat]

5. Well I don't know if it will work

But I did see the fascist aspect to this. KIRK KURCH UND KINDER all over again.
The only thing is you'd have to actually believe that Xtianity is under siege and the evidence is quite the opposite.

The other thing is to operate at a solid cultural level there has to be an unchallenged drumbeat at work -and I think the fundie Jesus humpers are crafting a way too sublte message to spur a mass movement.

But yes this is dangerous stuff and yes, I could be wrong. People can be such lemmings.

[FreedomAngel82]

27. And I also think

that the Bush group and neocons only use the fundies for votes. Right now they're all okay for the most part and buying time with the Fitzgerald case. They'd lose if they lost the fundie votes and the fundies have this whole wet dream with the Jews as someone else mentioned. So if Bush ever does go down a route like that it'd probably be Arabs, us liberals or some other boogey man they have used.

[Quakerfriend]

8. Yup, it's very scarey stuff.

What's amazing is that WE THE PEOPLE are really not saying much about this crap. I was shocked that sthe Terry Shiavo thing, there for days for everyone to see on their TV screens, did not raise more ire from all Americans.

[bluedawg12]

9. I don't "get" that's it's against Jews so much, rather secular

humanist liberals.

Also, backhanded, against Muslims.

Interestingly, because of the Biblical tie-in, Jews are now accepted by the fundy's. Watch the Lesea Network, and all the talk of the Temple and the Holy Land Tours, and the Old Testament stuff.

Also, Orthodox Jews and Fundamentalist Christians seem to share some of the same social "values," among them good things like valuing family, bad things like homophobia, and an Us Vs Them mentality.

Orthodox believers in all three faiths united long enough to band a gay parade-display of pride if you will, in Jerusalem. Odd, how bigotry can unite.

Consider that Pat Robberson's lawyer is a Jews for Jesus guy, Jay Sekulow, and they are side by side cozy and warm no rancor there.

[AlienGirl]

21. To many in the RW, the "secular humanist liberal agenda" is believed

to be something that Jews are behind. If you look at the really wacky right-wingers, you'll see that leftism/"Bolshevism" is believed to be the work of Jews.

As for the Jews for Jesus guy--he is the kind of Jew the fundie Christians find acceptible, because he has become a Christian.

Tucker

[bluedawg12]

35. Not saying that this type of acceptance is sincere

the whole fundy thing about the temple being rebuilt is about the end of the world and the damnation of the unsaved.

Yea, Jews do get scapegoated for a lot, even today. Agree Lenin and Bolsheviks on the left and the neocons on the right.

Gays just get blamed for Soddom and Gommorah not Armageddon. :sarcasm:

[CatholicEdHead]

39. But Rapture "Theory" goes that Jews can be Jews for now

but when the fire hits the brimstone, the Jews will either have to convert or they will die.

[Chautauqua]

40. Almost

It's more "when the fire hits the brimstone a small number of Jews will plead how wrong they've been and grovel and most will die horrible deaths and have eternal torture". It really does explain the S/M tone of so many of the fundie politician's "novels" that they all seem to write.

[sendero]

10. This ..

.... Merry Christmas vs Happy Holidays or Season's Greetings crap has been going on for decades. Really, it has.

[lildreamer316]

12. Oh; I know..

But I think they are subtly using it more as a tool to divide us....; eerily like the Nazis. It is just too easy to slip it in under the radar.Now they are escalating the rhetoric...pushing it more.
They think why not...it almost worked before. Who will stop them this time when the good guys become the bad? The mistake they made last time has been rectified. No one could really stop us (they think).

[FreedomAngel82]

29. They're only pushing it more

because they're losing their power. Look at all the polls. They have to have something to divide the people by. Remember with the republicans and neocons chaos is their best friend. Why else do they have so many scandals going on? It all leads to the same person but they keep you diverted.

[Chautauqua]

14. There IS a difference, though

Yes, the "Happy Holidays" vs "Merry Christmas" stuff has been going on for years but it used to be the realm of the Neo Nazis and the Klan. (and Henry Ford, Bush's grandfather and other pro-Nazis)

Now it's a mainstream meme being spread by the White House. That's a BIG difference

[lildreamer316]

16. Welcome to DU!!

have fun and we are not misspelling moron or huge. It's an inside joke;ask someone to share the pictures (I don't have them).Just wanted to let you know.... :hi:

[Chautauqua]

33. Thanks

I suspect I don't want to see the pictures!

[FreedomAngel82]

30. Welcome to DU!!

:hi:

[sendero]

36. Well...

.... I will agree that the White House involvement is new, but not that this was the exclusive province of Nazis and KKKers. Maybe its because I'm in Texas.

Fact is, this is Bush** playing to his base, which is he keen to do having alienated even some of them. His fundie base in anything but anti-Israeli, when Israel figures so heavily in their "end time" prophecy fairy tales.

[Chautauqua]

41. Remember

His fundie base wants there to be Jews in Israel but want an Israel that's in constant war with everyone in their area. A peace treaty or a stable Israel blows their "Jesus needs me to carry out his plans" fantasies. So, while they may support the existance of a state in the area with some Jews in it, they're solidly opposed to the wishes and views of the actual Israelis from anywhere in the wide Israeli political spectrum.

[sproutster]

13. I am currently reading Nuremberg Interviews - a scary snippet

From Psychological Interview of Karl Doenitz -
After being questioned about knowledge of concentration camps ..

From notes:
Then I was correct in understanding that he felt the camps were justified? "In a measure they were justified. If Hitler had not thrown the Communists into camps in 1933 there would have been civil war and bloodshed. The Communists would have revolted against the legally elected government. The greatest danger of civil war in Germany came in 1932 when it was clearly a choice between Communism and National Socialism. So Paul von Hindenburg and the other conservative bourgeois elements chose Hitler. So did I, and I would do it again if a choice between Communism and Nazism arose." He went on to explain that those were revolutionary times, and the herding together into concentration camps of a few thousand political opponents was not a particularly bad thing. "By placing these people with foreign ideas in camps, German blood was saved. Would it have been better to have a civil war?"

[Colorado Blue]

17. Whoa. Thanks for posting this.

I've been thinking about Nazi Germany lately, since as other posters have noted, our own democracy doesn't seem all that safe.

When we think how easily a sophisticated, brilliant culture slipped into madness within a few short years, beginning with the imprisonment of a few "undesireables" and ending with total war and holocaust, it doesn't seem unreasonable to be concerned.

In fact if people aren't scared they should be.

[FreedomAngel82]

31. Scary

:scared: Don't forget what happened with the White Rose Society. Now THAT is scary. And I remember seeing some documentary on the rightwing fundies called "The Army of God" and there was some anti-abortion group who compared themselves to the WRS. That pissed me off.

[Wordie]

19. I completely agree that this meme is scary, but not aimed at Jewish people

exclusively, imo. I think the out-group in this case is irrelevant to those who are promoting this meme, the goal is to rile up the base to regain support for Bush.

[Coastie for Truth]

20. Did you actually read the full text of

" Jew Baiting in America" in , referenced in the OP, along with the links in the blog.

[sproutster]

22. *shudder*

I read the link - this whole thing has been scaring me. It should scare anyone who is a critical thinker.

Have you ever read First Man in Rome? I believe the author is McCullah or similar. The way they created an emperor is sooo... familiar. War.

[FreedomAngel82]

23. It is and it is scary

I've seen and read plenty on Hitler and it is scary. I recommend every DUer pick up the book "Night" by Elie Wiesel. Definitely read it!

[FreedomAngel82]

26. Also if you haven't

go to http://www.informationclearinghouse.info and watch the film "The War Party." It talks about the neocons and how they're very pro-Israel.

[Cleita]

28. Welcome to the club.

There those of us here who have been criticized for comparing BushCo to the Third Reich. But what was once similarities are almost becoming de ja vu.

[FreedomAngel82]

32. Yes

Whenever I see a doc about Hitler or just an old video of him talking and all that it's really scary. :\

[Media_Lies_Daily]

37. Before the 2000 election, I warned anyone that would listen (and there...

...ween't very many) that the Bush people were bad news and would try to steer the U. S. toward a fascist form of government. I also told them that if Bush were elected (I mistakenly assumed the election would be fair), we would be in a war in the Middle East within his first term.

I was ridiculed and laughed at, even by my friends.

[Lars39]

42. My almost 80 yo old dad predicted the same.

Of course, he had been keeping up with what Junior had been doing in Texas.

[Chautauqua]

43. Don't feel bad

You probably would have been right. Had he actually been elected there would have been a war in the Middle East within his first term.

[jmowreader]

38. The Jews are the RW fundies' "useful idiots." It's not against them.

The fundies' principal goal in all this is NOT to demonize the Jews. It's to get Jesus to return--and the Jews are pivotal in this. A very large part of this will be done through organizations like Chosen People Ministries, Jews for Jesus, and other groups that evangelize to Jews. (Another reason the Catholics are hated: in 2002, the Catholics announced that they would stop attempting to convert Jews.) Remember, the Bible says Jesus won't come back until the Jews have converted to Christianity.

The fundamentalists are going straight for the secular humanists and other unchurched persons, plus the non-Judeochristians such as Muslims and Hindi.