Why are Americans so selfish? Why is it so acceptable in American society?

[begin_within]

Compared to the rest of the world, Americans seem to me to be very childish, self-absorbed, materialistic, greedy and fat. I'm an American too so I'm not excluding myself. Why is it so acceptable in American society and culture to be so selfish?

[Nederland]

1. Everyone is selfish

Americans are just more honest about it.

[TahitiNut]

6. That sounds like Michael's rationalization in "The Big Chill"

He claimed that everyone was out for themselves, but that he was more honest about it by being overtly so. When Sam Weber said that sounded like a rationalization, Michael said, "Don't knock rationalizations." ...

Michael: I don't know anyone who could get through the day without two or three juicy rationalizations. They're more important than sex.
Sam Weber: Ah, come on. Nothing's more important than sex.
Michael: Oh yeah? Ever gone a week without a rationalization?

[pengu1n]

32. nope

Not more honest - just better at it!

[rman]

51. you can speak for yourself, but not for me

[m0nkeyneck]

2. selfishness isn't an option for most of the world

re: selfish americans; can we assume ignorance is a factor?

[wtmusic]

28. good point

:thumbsup:

[tsetaerg]

3. me gen

great civs come to an end...not by someone invading but by being fat,self-serving and selfish. Roman,french,American..(I can't cap the french I have no love for them, don't ask..it's personal)we just lasted a bit longer than the 200 year ave.

[Swamp Rat]

13. Je demanderai... pourquoi?

Êtes-vous français? Avez-vous vécu là?

edit: Bienvenue au DU! :hi:

[Thirtieschild]

47. The have-nots conquer the haves

Around 1840 my great-great grandfather desperately wanted to go to college, wanted it so badly that he was willing to walk 100 or so miles to get there. How many of us would have done the same thing? I can't even imagine it.

[Erika]

4. Jesus didn't preach such selfish ism

But then the GOP today aren't Christians.

[melody]

5. Ah, page exposure hike time

> Americans seem to me to be very childish,

You're hanging around the wrong people. I've met as many childish non-Americans as I have childish Americans.

>self-absorbed,

That's a pejorative term that could mean anything. One slant on that is we are more "private" in our attentions beyond our own yards. That might seem, at the surface, self-absorption.

>materialistic,

I live in a 780 square foot home with four members of my family. We live a purposive frugal lifestyle, preparing for the future of that family. I'm the granddaughter of southern archfrugalists who had on their wall my favorite saying: "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without."

>greedy

See above.

>and fat.

That has nothing to do with any of the foregoing. Obesity is primarily the result of a metabolic difference, probably caused by some mix of factors including having come from famine cultures. In general, slender people are far less effective "burners" of "fuel", so they don't gain weight.

[Sparkman]

74. Electing * demonstrates that 25% of adults bought their myths and lies.

and that is childish and pampered.

[melody]

76. You'd damn us all for what 25% thinks?

More people voted against George Bush than there are people who live in all of France.

The statement was:

>Americans seem to me to be very childish (the rest of the stereotype snipped)

There were no exceptions or exclusions -- the phrase asserts all Americans when the majority of Americans did not vote for George Bush.

[Sparkman]

77. Pampering children is not damning them. We all retain some childishness

And would you agree that living off the wealth and resources that the U.S. military assures us access to, affords us all a lifestyle, not based on what we acheive, but what our society provides.
If we work at the same level in any other country, we would be hard pressed to get the affluence elsewhere.
AND, our form of government says the vote is final, and we are collectively damned or blessed. That's an irony in our country, that as we protest tyrants like the current war-mongering hord that infests our society, as we tolerate the pressence of military and corporate and government elites in our midst, we aquiesce at some level to their crimes against humanity!! imo

[melody]

80. I don't know what lifestyle you have, but it must be better than mine

>we aquiesce at some level

I don't.

Look, all western nations acquiesce to that extent. All of them do. For decades, many western nations enjoyed a similar level of comfort (without having to pay for their own military protection) at the expense of people in this country who were propping it up with our tax dollars -- AND we didn't have half the social safety net the other countries gave to their citizens.

Why are Americans only to blame? We're no more empowered than the citizens of any other fascist state. We can't "tolerate" anything. We are helpless. All we can do is express our dissent and hope, at some point, it reaches critical mass enough to terrify the elite.

[Sparkman]

91. Biggest U.S. myth: The western nations are at grave risk from ENEMIES

The level of threat to the west, from ANYONE is the biggest hyped lie that the corporate elite can hoist up. That's why the west justifies spending such a huge chunk of their wealth on all things military.
The reality is that the Soviets, the Communitst, the Mexicans, the south Africans, the South Americans...all have never posed any threat to the west, yet the U.S. has waged wars against them all. The wars are to support U.S. business access to foreign resources and labor and to divert our citizens attention away from the politicians' failures and lazy habits here at home. imo
Read Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn and the examples are legion, of unjustified fake and heinious wars, by and for the U.S. corporations.

[melody]

92. Oh, I agree - but perception and reality are two different things n/t

[melody]

93. I'd still like to hear why 75% of us must be condemned for 25% of us

There's a minority in every country that causes problems, but we don't say -- because 25% of senior citizens have problems driving -- that we should automatically deny driving privileges to all senior citizens. It's unfair.

Your assertion was that we are all "that way" when in fact the minority is the problem.

And who are you to upbraid "spoiled children"? Who is going to judge one group of "spoiled children" from the rest? And I'm afraid stereotyping all people as one thing *does* damn them. It's what holocausts are made of, in the long term.

[Clara T]

7. Social Engineering

[Lost-in-FL]

8. It is called CAPITALISM...

Maybe we are like that (greedy, materialistic, etc.) but seems to me that many individuals in social economies lack "drive" or ambition. They could retire flipping burgers in McDonalds and it is a normal thing for them. Here is not the case. What is best?

[Skittles]

10. I call wanting the biggest, latest of everything GREED

G-R-E-E-D

[leftstreet]

24. Is it really greed, or denial?

:shrug:

The Corporate Media work hard to convince citizens that having the biggest, latest of everything means the universe is unfolding as it should. I don't blame the brainwashed. I blame the brainwashers.

[Skittles]

30. I blame them both

the brainwashed need to start f***ing thinking for themselves

[wake.up.america]

12. Less ambition for the material, perhaps more drive for the more...

humanistic aspects.

Ambition does not always equate material ambition.

[AZBlue]

58. Exactly. Capitalism alone isn't the answer in my opinion.

But that's the "experiment" that we are in the middle of now. Look at this from a long-term point of view - society has gone through many changes and evolutions and will always do so. At first capitalism seemed so great, but now we're seeing the other side of it. And, it's not so pretty.

I don't know any -ism that is the answer - it seems to me we need to blend a few together to see a society that really works for all. And, we'll probably get there some day - in a hundred years or two.

[primavera]

84. Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

Remember the '80s movie Wall Street, in which Michael Douglas espouses that "greed is good"? Our faith in the free market is that everyone striving to accumulate the maximum personal wealth will also achieve the strongest, healthiest, and most robust economy overall, which, we erroniously believe, must surely be good for everyone. So we allow ourselves to be impressed by economic indicators like gross GDP, which takes no account of inequitable income distribution, or overall unemployment rates, which take no account of the salaries being paid by jobs, or new housing starts, which take no account of the quality of housing being produced. More wealth, more jobs, more houses, everything must be going great, right? Right, unless, of course, 99% of the wealth is going to 1% of the population, the jobs being created pay slave wages for long hours in unsafe working conditions and offer no benefits, and the new "houses" being created are ghetto shanties.

[Skittles]

9. I bet many DUers are among those of whom you speak

but they will deny it

[wake.up.america]

17. I have no idea what drives the average forum member...

and beside there is a large range of characteristics here.

I recall one lady who used to rant to me in private about how unfair Bush was, then sign off, complaining how much it cost to have her Lexus repaired, how much it cost to maintain her pool in the middle of Arizona, how much it cost to send her kids to private schools, etc.

Is she selfish?

I don't know.

Perhaps I am selfish because free time with my kids is more important than a plasma television. Perhaps I am depriving people of jobs because I am not a slave to Madison Avenue.

[Skittles]

31. that lady will raise children as selfish as she is

count on it

[tocqueville]

11. colonists cultures tend to be selfish

but I think that the US unique special situation (the biggest unexploited country) created a culture where it was easy to take and not to give.

Besides to the difference from similar western cultures a social awareness was never really developped. While Europe created a social engineering to take care of their poor (which hasn't always succeded), the US relied on charity, specially religious.

Canada is different, probably because the climate is harsher and the resources more limited. So people need to share to survive. You can see the same pattern in Europe where welfare is most developped in the North and less in the south.

[f-bush]

14. Many Reasons

IMHO there are many reasons and I feel it is a good question to be asking, specially at this time of the year.

My mom was born in Germany (as I was also) but she endured the Allied bombing of her home town during World War II. She had said many times that this country (USA) has not had to endure the hardships that the Europeans have faced so many times over. We have not had to have our land occupied, nor our culture obliterated. We have not had another's language or currency systems imposed upon us. We have by far and large except for a few sacrifices, had it pretty easy compared to so much of the rest of the world.

We are also "young" as far as the community of nations are concerned. We have not collectively matured and learned how to socialize properly within the family of nations.

Last of all, we are a huge and powerful nation. Very wealthy collectively. Even our poor are for the most part better off than the citizens who live in abject poverty in many third world nations. Such power and wealth perpetuate greed and also a fear of losing it.

I hope I didn't offend anyone. I include myself in this. I find myself many times wrestling with the culture and values of my birth nation and continent, but find myself wrapped up in the material competition of my "new" home.

Have a peaceful Advent and joyous holiday season-TacomaMikeC

[Hardrada]

27. OK, now let's hear from a Southerner. Usually one will chime in

about now and say that indeed their land WAS occupied and the Old South was obliterated. And they are the ones whose rage has fueled the reaction to progressivism and the New deal even though they greatly (white folks stratum) got good benefits.

[f-bush]

29. I was waiting for that

I thought after I posted someone might say that. However, the south was "occupied" by it's own country. Yes slavery (some say the moral excuse) and economics (some say the real reason) for the civil conflict occured, however the south was still administered by the same set of people who had very much the same currency, language, culture and relatively the same traditions. It never was another national entity unto itself.

That all said, the rupukes manipulates some southerners to harbor hatred against progressives and liberal thought by using fear and race to obscure the real debates of poverty and economic justice.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

42. I'm a southerner and you know

we WERE occupied and obliterated and...


nah... I was born in NJ and had ancestors on both sides of the issue.

I don't think Americans are any more or less selfish than other folks. I think we should avoid stereotyping any group of people, whether it's ourselves or others.

I grew up thinking that America gave more aid to other countries than anyone else in the world. Then I read Eric Alterman and learned we are a stingy bunch of bastards. I don't know the truth. Probably somewhere in the middle.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. You can see it in the reaction to 9/11

So many Americans act as if 9/11 is the most traumatic experience in world history, and Bush has successfully convinced them that 9/11 justifies every atrocity, every denial of freedom, that his administration commits.

It seemed that the farther away they were from major urban centers, the more "traumatized" they were by 9/11.

Ignorant of history, they don't realize that hundreds of European and Asian cities suffered the equivalent of 9/11 in the saturation bombings of World War II, sometimes repeatedly. Some cities in Germany and Japan lost 100,000 or more in a single night of conventional bombing.

Katrina devasted a larger area than the 9/11 hijackers did, most likely killed more people, and definitely disrupted more lives.

But with this constant harping on 9/11, our government is encouraging us to act like adolescents who moan and groan over a pimple and don't want to hear that someone else has survived cancer or currently is in the burn unit after having lost everything in a house fire. There's that pimple--and it's going to ruin my chances at Ashley's party...

[kcwayne]

94. Your mom's view of history is just plain wrong.

1) Blacks and native Americans endured unspeakable hardships at the hands of "cultured" Europeans in this country for centuries. The native Americans and blacks did have their culture obliterated, their land occupied, and currency systems imposed on them. They and their descendants did not end up with multi-billion dollar corporations and vast wealth from the experience, as so many Germans did after 4 years of hardship preceded by 3 years of laying waste to their neighbors. What was that comment about properly socializing again?

2) The criticism of the US as "young" and unable to properly socialize with a family of nations is absurd. The founders of this country were descendants and proteges of the European elite. The form of government in the US and its culture is a direct product of Europe by way of ancient Greece and Rome. The US is an extension of European culture, not separately developed and matured.

3) WW1, with millions upon millions of casualties and continent wide destruction is testament to the Europeans "advanced" ability to socialize. All of that destruction and waste was fomented by inbred morons that made up the aristocracy of Europe. And these geniuses of socialization put in motion a system that resulted in a repetition of the death and destruction on an even greater scale a mere 20 years later. Properly socialized indeed, and I have not even begun to touch on the uncountable number of wars and social injustices created by the 2000 years of the feudalism and theocracy that dominated the European continent throughout its history.

[leftstreet]

15. Anxiety fueled consumption. Americans have never had a safety net.

American's fork over tons of money in the form of tax dollars, but somehow lack the drive to insist those monies be assigned to the common good.

[Erika]

18. Excellent post

Most Americans believe it is their duty to help the less fortunate. W's agenda is 1000% against this.

[leftstreet]

23. The workers are always the first to donate to help others

But politicians don't honor the phenomenon, they just exploit it.

[Just Me]

85. Interesting perspective.

I've never thought of the issue in that way. I can see some truth to that.

[leftofthedial]

16. Reagan made it okay

Bush made it "necessary"

Thousands of years of civilization, in a sense, has been a process of humans learning to overcome their selfishness. 25 years of Republicanism and its largely been reversed.

[Erika]

20. Reagan taught that the rich were Godly

and the poor were scum. Completely against any Christian teachings.

[f-bush]

25. How True

Erika: How very true what you just said. It seems to me that the repukes are anything but Christian, even tho when it fits there needs that mouth about being Godly and virtue and all that. Have none of them ever read the Beattitudes? Have none of them ever the read the verse;
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."

It maybe time for some introspection. As someone earlier on this thread had said...Reagan made it popular to be selfish.

How different that is compared to another president who exhorted: "Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country." !

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raine]

35. Yup, Reagan

was the one who really got it going in a LARGE way. Reagan made conspicious consuption something to be proud of and aspire to.

[LaPera]

19. Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous-Americans Dream-Under Reagan

I saw it really become so much more prevalent, it was stressed by Reaganites, to grab all you can, fuck everyone else (and the environment) consume, consume, consume, take it all now, don't worry about tomorrow...

Also not so fondly recalled, "The Me Generation" ...And it's always been part of republican ideology as well!

[Erika]

21. And talk about the Shining City on the Hill

He was so full of BS you might think he was only an actor.

[rucky]

22. Reality TV

sorta kidding, sorta not.

Capitalism is based on greed. Time to start teaching Marx, because everything he said about capitalism has come true.

[AndyTiedye]

34. It's Not Capitalism When Robber Barons Buy the Government

Robber barons have bought our government and are looting the Treasury.
This gives them and the corporations they control an insurmountable competitive advantage, which has caused a breakdown of capitalism.

But then it's not Marxism if the state becomes huge and omnipotent instead of "withering".
I can't think that Marx would have been too happy with what either Russia or China have become.

Oligarchies take over by various means and use various ideologies
to rationalize their rule.

[rucky]

36. i was thinking more on the micro level

working for the money vs. working for the self-satisfaction and function to society.

[tirechewer]

33. A few thoughts

I think it is because many of us have so much to start with. In most cases people measure their success on what they have and not who they are.

Society which is based on a capitalist system which is always emphasizing greater profits needs us to be selfish so that we can buy more of what they produce and increase their profits even further.

The schools tend to teach cookie cutter ideas about what a wonderful way of life we have and base those ideas for the most part on how much you earn or how many consumer goods you have sitting in your house.

Unless we are among the percentage of people who live in the US and are desperately poor, we do not have to scramble to survive day to day.

Spiritual values outside of conventional religion are often devalued and ridiculed, and introspection and observation is discouraged as a general rule. We are not rewarded for looking at other cultures which are poorer than we are, but which may have equal or better personal values and a greater sense of community.

[raccoon]

43. Great post.

"Society which is based on a capitalist system which is always emphasizing greater profits needs us to be selfish so that we can buy more of what they produce and increase their profits even further."

Advertisers and advertisements, or course, encourage people to buy more, more, more, to want more, more, more. They want dissatisfied people, because people who are satisfied with what they have don't buy as much.

The American economy is based on this kind of thinking. If everyone suddenly quit buying things they wanted (but didn't need), the economy would go into a horrendous depression, at least as bad as in the '30's.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. This attitude of "our wonderful way of life" goes back a long time

I was in grade school in the 1950s, when America was definitely the most prosperous country in the world, having survived World War II with almost no war damage.

We were taught that Americans had the highest standard of living in the world (it was actually true at the time, judging from stories that my relatives returning from visits to Europe said) and it was hinted that life elsewhere would be hardly bearable.

That mythology is still strong, even though it's no longer true. How often have you heard, "This is the greatest country in the world" from someone who's hardly ever stepped outside the borders of his own county?

[FloridaPat]

37. I went to Russia right after communism fell. These people didn't have

much. Their income was $40 a month. But they would give you the shirt off their backs. I was told not to tell anyone that I liked something - a dress, jewelry, art work. They are so generous, they would give it to you on the spot. And their highest priority was their children. They moved the world for their kids. The loved education and their TV stations (a few, not hundreds) had a lot of cultural shows on them. They had a sense of community, which we don't have.

We had several 20's something people with us. Also some from Canada. The Russians and Canadians had all the energy in the world. They were always wanting to do things and go places. The American kids had little energy and were hard to get along with. They didn't want to do too much of anything.

At Epcot in the American Exhibition they have a quote from someone. Basically it says America has surived everything but prosperity. We have too much. And a lot of it is crap. We have the highest number of work hours of any country (I think we surpassed Japan a couple of years ago). We just don't seem to be thinking anymore, if we ever did. Maybe it is TV.

[Err]

38. It's because people here...

think that since they're American, they deserve anything/everything. We have this culture of "i'm better than you" and I hate it.

[salin]

39. lessons forgotten from the great depression,

and buying into the myths that one is what one possesses.

[Strong Atheist]

40. I don't know about selfish.

America has given enormous amounts of aide to other countries over the years...

[Greyhound]

50. Sorry, but you are mis-informed. It is not your fault, you have been

brainwashed by the most effective propaganda machine the world has ever known. We have always been much as we are today, the biggest bully on the block, there have been brief episodes when the truly liberal folks have been in vogue for a few years, but we invariably return to our roots.
We are fearfull, greedy, mean-spirited, and violent. If you dare to disagree, we will kill you.
:shrug:

[woo me with science]

68. yes, Americans are bad bad bad

and we hate them.

[Strong Atheist]

71. I can't tell if these two posts are serious

or not. :shrug:

America is and has been one of the biggest contributors to aide though the red Cross, money donated through the U.N., and other direct and indirect ways. Have we as a country done things we shouldn't? Sure. Is there a country that has been a more consistently positive force in the world as whole in the last 60 years or so? Name it.

[Greyhound]

73. Yea! We suck less! GO AMERIKA! n/t

[woo me with science]

75. My post

was sarcastic. I agree with you.

[Strong Atheist]

81. Sorry! I apologize.

I can't always tell sarcasm in a post ....


:spank: to me!

[rman]

53. America has been looting the globe for decades

That's why it supports dictators and vilifies socialist/liberal/populist leaders all over the world (specifically in South-America).

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

41. Also, "American exceptionalism" preached to us for a long time, that

this country is the chosen country of God, that we are and should be uniquely good and powerful for all time etc.

There are many instances throughout history of countries believing things like this.

And, as far as selfishness, for at least since the Reagan 80's we've had the top leadership of our country embracing this ethos and telling the rest of us that it's okay. Consider the difference in message compared to FDR or Jimmy Carter.

[atommom]

46. I think it's a combination of factors, and marketing is a big one.

We already had the myths of American exceptionalism and individualism going. It was easy for government and big business to play those myths against us. If we're rugged individualists, we needn't take care of the needy ... they should take care of themselves. If they're still needy in the greatest country in the world, there must be something wrong with them. Individualists can't be expected to take public transit. We need our own vehicles, big powerful ones. We need bigger houses, more gadgets, better clothes, to show our superiority. If we want it, it should be ours. We're entitled. We have a right to spend our money as we please. Those people who whine about the poor and the environment are just jealous of us and are trying to bring us down by raising taxes and destroying our way of life. Because reducing our consumption would be an outrage.

[earth mom]

82. Very good post! Americans are obsessed with "HAVING IT ALL"

And what an ugly people we are for it. Instead of caring about others we are indoctrinated at a very early age to only think of ME ME ME and CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME and ACHIEVE ACHIEVE ACHIEVE!!! And if you have to mow over lots and lots and lots of people in order to get where you're "supposed" to be-so be it. All to have the best house, car, clothes; the "so called" very best life!

In America, MATERIAL POSSESSIONS and MONEY are far more important than people...and certainly more important than an acquaintance who may have had no advantages or a string of bad luck and could use some help. Instead, that guy is viewed as a "loser" or "flawed" and isn't worth most peoples time or energy.

This country throws away the mentally ill, the disabled, The mentally disabled, the learning disabled, the uneducated, the diseased, the overweight, the socially inept-ANYONE who isn't "PERFECT".

We should all be ashamed of ourselves that we have allowed this to happen and to continue! :puke:

48. Isn't greed universal?

Look at Onassis. How about all of those Egyptian kings?


I like your kitty cats.

[tirechewer]

59. Yes

Desire for acquisition does seem to be hard wired into the human psyche. My guess would be that way back when our ancestors were hunter gatherers and life was very harsh and hand to mouth, the more food and survival tools you had, the longer you lived.

So that trait is a part of us. But like a lot of aspects of our emotions it has been displaced forward into the technology we live in in ways that promote acquisition for its own sake and not merely for day to day scrabbling. That's where the greed comes in.

As individuals we can be very generous when others are in trouble. Individual Americans empty their pockets for disaster victims and people in trouble both in our own country and all over the world. But many other Americans seem to have something missing when it comes to empathizing with human misery.

I know a woman, a Neocon in fact, who when confronted with all of the misery following hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, could only say that the victims were "behaving badly". Her only concern was that she had seen the repeated loops shown of the same people looting over and over again which distorted the situation and made it look like everyone in the city was just waiting for the opportunity to get themselves a new TV.

The fact that most people were trying to get food and water and health care supplies that they couldn't get in any other way mitigated nothing for her. She has never been poor. She has never been desperate and she believes to this day that if you are poor and desperate it is somehow your own fault. She doesn't look further than her own comfortable life and she doesn't want to know about people who have nothing no matter how hard they work. She just doesn't care. She completely lacks what I call a feeling of community.

In many other countries, much poorer than we are there is greed and there is a lack of empathy, but it is recognized as a character failing that is bad for the community at large. People have to think of themselves in the context of how well they can work with others, because that is the only way any of them will survive.

In the US we are taught both overtly and subliminally that greed is a good thing, somehow. You are what your net worth is. In other countries, where contributing back to your community is paramount, they are taught that greed is bad. They place more emphasis on developing their spiritual lives and working together to survive as a group.

People everywhere share the same components which make up what we call "human nature". It is just that from place to place the emphasis on "human nature" is different. All cultures have good points and bad points. Greed and selfishness here is held up as something to emulate from the top of the government to people who advertise for Christmas. Get this, get that, get it all. Spend, spend, spend or people won't think you're anyone of any importance.

A lot of it is like greed on steroids. We need a greater sense of community here in the US. Many people have it. I would say that the people who think one thought further and take the time and effort to discuss who we are and where we're going in places like DU are already striving for a better community. Maybe one that is more humanistic and less cruel and barren. They care, they wonder, they write and they think. They discuss and merge all of their different values into constructive discussions which others like my incurious Neocon don't bother to have. Like this discussion.

That has got to help form our future. We can't just depend on what we're driving and how much we can buy and a president who gives himself the best while denying life and freedom not only to us but to everyone else in the world. The scary part is that he and the Neocons, like that woman I mentioned above, think that they have every right to do so, simply because they are Americans.

63. A thoughtful discussion -

Of interest, what other countries would you say teach that greed is bad? I can't think of any myself.

""In other countries, where contributing back to your community is paramount, they are taught that greed is bad. They place more emphasis on developing their spiritual lives and working together to survive as a group.""

[tirechewer]

64. Bear in mind

Please bear in mind that I have not traveled extensively, so this would be from impressions I have gained reading about different cultures and anthropological readings. With that caveat let me give it a try.

In countries where there is less technology to make day to day activities easier, people have to depend more on manual labor and each other to complete tasks that benefit everyone. If you have less to start with, there is less to go around. If one person hoards food, or materials needed for survival, others do without, so hoarding is discouraged. I'm thinking of places in what we call the "Third World". That is a poor name. It is as if the people there live on a different planet than the one we inhabit.

I remember reading that after Katrina, countries that had been badly affected by the tsunami from the huge earthquake in Indonesia were trying to offer us help. Whatever they had. Sums of money that would seem small to us as a nation, but were unimaginably large to them.

I know that Africa is torn by wars, and internecine strife and that many parts of Africa are being bled by greedy and inhuman dictators. Still in other areas of Africa the people place great value on their own communities and pursue a rich spiritual life as the most valuable quality of their society.

So maybe I am talking particular groups or communities embedded within nations and not this nation or that. I was feeling my way through a concept and things I have observed even here, in the US. Please bear with me if I'm not putting it well, or if I'm being clumsy.

I have to add a personal note. I'm a Quaker. We don't emphasize material things or accumulating wealth for its own sake. One of our most basic values is humility and finding the our wealth in helping anyone who needs help. So that is one of the core values that I accept and build my life around. I am comfortable. I need nothing, and there are others who need so much. Maybe I can help them. On their terms. In the way they decide they need help, respecting their culture and their values and not imposing ours on to them.

67. Well you are talking about

a group of people within a culture and not the whole country, but I get your point.

Have you read Elton Trueblood, a Quaker from Indiana? I recently read a little of his writings.

Also since you are new, did you know about the feature, "my posts", where you can easily see your own posts and any replies? I didn't know about it for a long time.

[tirechewer]

98. Thanks

I haven't read Elton Trueblood yet, but I'll add him to my list. My meeting has a bookstore which will probably have him. I've been reading Howard Brinton lately which is a very good history of Quakerism, but quite dense reading. It's worth it though. Please don't take anything I say about this as proselytizing, evangelizing or preaching at you. I don't think it's right to try to tell other people how to think. I know I don't like it very much when people do that to me.

Can I recommend to you to try the AFSC magazine "Peaceworks"? It's an excellent publication that has articles on different countries, societies and, yes the dreaded cultures:) and how they are resolving their problems.

If you don't already have it, here is the link to AFSC http://www.afsc.org./ where you can get the magazine if you're interested.

Thanks. I do know about the "My Post" area. That's how I find the replies I want to answer.

I know I used the word "country" but when I examined it more thoughtfully I realized that the only country I could even begin to say has a different emphasis country wide, on materialism and community, is Canada. My knowledge of Canada is based only on written conversations with a few Canadians, and discussions with them about our comparative forms of government, war the death penalty and the environment. So I may be wrong about that too, but I'm trying my best for ya. :toast:

I may be wrong about that, though. Heaven knows I frequently am.:)

99. thanks for the info n/t

[Joe Chi Minh]

87. I believe hunter-gathereers don't believe in personal property.

Everything is owned by the tribe. The Australian aborignes are an example of this, and I should be surprised if the same were not true of the Kalahari Bushmen. There is of course no need to adopt such a degree of asceticism - it was forced upon those peoples by their harsh environment.

Solzhenytsin, I believe, is correct in his attribution of the individual's wholesale surrender to "self", as the ultimate good, to atheist humanism and the culture of inevitable progress via science. The notion of freedom and rights, without self control and obligations is unique to the present era. As was a voluntary enslavement to capital and knowledge, as entities, however abstract, not to be denied, but rather, with sovereing rights over all human beings. That is, of course, except the rich and powerful beneficiaries of this culture.

[Arugula Latte]

49. We've been isolated with beaucoup resources that we're sucking dry.

We'll see the day when we're forced to live like the rest of the world. China and India are going to kick our asses.

[PassingFair]

52. You're just jealous.

Why do you hate America?

:sarcasm:

[Democrats_win]

54. It´s the American Way, ask the Indians.

[Jara sang]

55. It's to fill an empty void in their lives.

They have no fulfillment in everyday living so they have to buy thing to fill that void. The buying and the selfishness doesn't fill the void so they have to buy even more. It's a disease called affluenza.

[Roaming]

56. Compared to the rest of the world, Americans give more than

any other country. I think we are overall a very generous group of people (see this report: http://www.jewishresearch.org/PDFs/MegaGiving_05.pdf)

Unfortunately greediness is a human trait, not a trait of one country. You'll find greed in every country of the world, just on different scales.

[Arugula Latte]

70. Our government aide to the rest of the world is far behind

most other western nations, on a per capita basis.

[genie_weenie]

57. America

meaning the United States is a land of plenty. The is almost no want, so what happens? You eat huge portions (while throwing half of your meal out), you buy vehicles which get 8 mpg, you produce mountains and mountains of trash. Of course most of this can also be traced back to the "Greatest" Generation not wanting their children to want or go without and so the Boomers grew up as the Me Me Me Me Me Generation. Too bad me and my fellow Gen-Xers don't give a damn....

[La Coliniere]

60. People are made to feel,

very early in their lives in this country, that material things, the shiny and new, the very latest, "what everyone wants", is the secret to happiness and success. The more of "it" they possess, the more "happiness" they feel they're bound to receive in return. It's a rare American who can break out of this vicious cycle of want, consume, be disappointed, repeat.............. I have, and I'm sure many here at DU as well, have learned that material things just don't matter that much in the scheme of things.

[obxhead]

61. The US was formed because we didn't want to pay taxes..

or we wanted to keep the pie and eat it too if you like.

[Danny Udoji]

62. Generalization

They're not just a generalization. Being selfish really isn't accepted. If someone acts selfish, people usually don't like them.

Every country has immense problems. Why focus on the negative when there are numerous positives? The USA has done a lot of great and a lot of bad. Why act like we're the only people who are selfish, fat, ignorant, stupid, greedy, etc. Wherever there are humans all of these things are a problem.

Some people in the USA are fat because we're able to get fat. Other countries it's not an option because there are not 25 KFCs on every corner.

[AndyTiedye]

65. If We Were So Selfish, ** Would Not Have Had to Lie About the War

He could have just said we were going to war to steal Iraq's oil.
Fact is, he did have to lie about it, and public support for the
war is plummeting now that the lies have been exposed.

[AndyTiedye]

66. Materialistic? The Japanese have more and niftier toys by far

[Crayson]

69. Darwin...

Correct me if I'm wrong.
I think the US culture is very oriented about one's achievements...

Like the guy taking pictures out of his wallet and presenting "My car! My house! My yacht! My wife! My children!"

I feel it's a culture where you have to compete all the time.
Such a culture breeds selfishness, grief and jealousy.
At least within those people who want to be on top.

But there are plenty of cool people too...;-))

[woo me with science]

72. LOL. "All Americans but ME...."

It always cracks me up when people say this, because what they are really saying is, "All Americans but ME (and perhaps my friends!) are selfish and materialistic."

Sorta like saying, "All Americans (but ME!) are sheeple, duped by the media."

or

"All Americans (but ME!) are dull, poorly educated, ignorant and uninformed.

Funny how everyone here is unselfish, unmaterialistic, well-educated, and informed. Not like those OTHER Americans.

[Sparkman]

79. It's unfair to conclude your generalization,rhetorical style is forgivable

We don't have to include self-critical statements to point out a generalization, upon which we all can dwell and ponder and comment.
It's for the good of the community that we adopt a style, that inherently ASSUMES that none are without fault, and we are all guilty to some degree of that which we accuse others or that which we condemn, even in ourselves and even it it goes unstated.
imo

[kineneb]

78. Puritans, No-nothings, Regan, "individualism", Manifest Destiny

I put these elements forward as the reasons for our general selfishness. Also the tendency to be ignorant of the rest of the world. All cultures are selfish, some more than others.

And not all Americans are selfish; look at: Habitat for Humanity, Rotary International and the other service clubs, many of the mainstream churches. They all give freely of their time and money.

(Rotary's motto is "Service above Self," and many of us try to live up to that ideal.)

[VaYallaDawg]

83. Of that list, kineneb, Puritanism and Reagan sure have my votes!

[Jed Dilligan]

86. No, you have it all wrong

Americans are adults by the time they're seven years old, they are completely wrapped up in the people around them, they use consumption to treat neurosis (they are not at all materialistic like, say, newly rich Indians), they are more afraid of losing what they have than desirous of gaining more, and fat? That's because we subsidize the addition of HFCS and BGH to nearly everything the people eat, although with all their problems they remain blissfully unaware of what their government does.

The American dream is perfectly backwards, style over substance, surface over depth, the artificial more valued than the natural, the perfect lie more believed than the awkward truth. That's where all of us fail, not in selfishness.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clara T]

89. As a percentage og GDP

America is dead last of donor contributions. US gives .11% of GDP. What the US gives is mostly in the form of Military aid, to support such brutal regimes as those in Saudi, and massive amounts of grain dumping to destroy the local agriculture systems for Monsanto to move in.

You are espousing a well worn and thoroughly debunked myth. Look up the stats.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SoCalDem]

95. Our national motto is "Gonna GIT ME Some..Git outta my way!"..n/t

[Odin2005]

96. Calvinism & Consumerism.

Calvinism says that material wealth is a sign that you are one of the elite that gets to go to heaven, and poverty ment you were an evil person who was going to Hell. We are also indoctrinated from childhood by comericas telling us that you can huy happiness, and you have to keep up with the Jonses for your family to stay "respectable".

[Blue_Tires]

97. ttt n/t

[Yavin4]

100. Following WWII, American Entered Into A Culture of Abundance

With the exception of African Americans and other disenfranchised groups, Americans entered into a culture of mass abundance compared to the rest of the world.

What underpinned the culture of abundance was our dominance of the world's economy. In the 70s, with increased competition from other nations and oil price shocks, our dominance was lost, and the culture of abudance came under attack. Carter was right to tell the nation the truth. They had to sacrifice. They had to scale back. The reaction to Carter was the conservative movement that we know today.

Today, that culture of adundance is being kept alive by debt manipulation. We live in a false illusion of unending prosperity. Our standard of living is much higher than any other nation on the earth, and we have to compete with these nations for jobs and income.

[porphyrian]

101. It's complicated and there is no single, simple answer.

Here are a few stabs, but these are only part of the bigger picture.

We've got nearly half a continent to ourselves with only two other countries connected by land. It's easy in this country to live one's entire life without ever visiting another country. This is not usually the case in other places (except maybe China), where their country is surrounded by other countries, and all are as small as one of our states. Isolationism is pretty easy in this environment, even with airplanes and such. I've met adults who have never flown, and some that have never left a three-county area.

Our country was born materialistic, as a supply of natural resources to the Old World. Our Revolution occurred when our ancestors living here decided to keep those resources for themselves rather than send them back overseas. We exterminated Indians for this property, and we made Africans into property to make more money. There is really no reason to be surprised that we are still materialistic. The surprise should come from our not learning to put humanity before profit yet.

Despite the actions of our current administration, freedom is a concept central to our ideology. As such, we resent being told what to do, even if it's the right thing. This can be interpreted as childish and selfish. However, most of us do have a conscience and compassion for those in need, and we can occasionally go out of our way to help them without the expectation of reciprocity, at least on an individual basis.

Money is power in America (and most of the world, but we're talking about us). As all of the conveniences of our lives cost money, most of us spend a great deal of time trying to obtain it, in order to enjoy whatever time is left afterward. Many of us dislike or even resent this procedure, but we are left with few apparent choices. Thus, we are more selfish with our resources individually.

As a group, we are seen by corporations (and those who own and run them) as little more than a means to a profit. Thus, we are treated as cattle, placed in neon-guilded, consession-lined chutes to our eventual demise, milked the entire way for points on stock values. It is not in the better interests of the corporation to have worldly, attentive, educated cattle. Thus, they manipulate our opinion through control of information. It isn't that we are necessarily unsympathetic to the plight of those in Darfur, it's that we are physically and intellectually isolated from them by our keepers.