I have absolutely no problem with flag burning

[mopaul]

in fact, it's the largest non issue ever thought up. if you gathered up every damn flag in the nation and burned it, what would the harm be?

it's just as pointless and stupid as putting the christ back in christmas.

[GRLMGC]

1. It is stupid

I understand it pisses people off but there's no point in banning it

[DS1]

2. In fact, flag burning helps the economy

[sniffa]

27. true

and we're burning fLags made in taiwan, so in turn we need to buy more fLags from our staunch aLLy, thereby heLping out their economy in the process.

trickLe down

[MountainLaurel]

28. Actually no

Since China is no doubt the number one producer of American flags.

[murray hill farm]

3. Ha!

Well said!! What i cannot figure, is what the hell she ever expected to gain from this move..on any level.

[Selatius]

4. It's a wedge issue. That's all that counts.

The notion that "perception is reality" holds quite a lot of weight. Such an issue only becomes relevant if people place their attention on it, or the news media puts it in front of people as the "issue of the day" as opposed to failing education and health care systems or some other nationally significant issue.

[WindRavenX]

8. bingo

Cultural issues will ALWAYS trump the economy, wars, and health care. You know, the "real" issues :puke:

[Telly Savalas]

29. It's about time the Democrats turn the tables on it.

Party leaders need to stand up and say something like:

When's the last time any of you have witnessed somebody burning the flag? Let's set aside First Amendment issues and the morality of flag-burning for a minute, and ask ourselves 'is this really a problem'? Face facts: almost nobody burns the flag these days. So the question then becomes why does the GOP have such a morbid obsession with stopping an activity that never occurs anyway? Is it because they're afraid to talk about Iraq, the economy, and health care? It's time for them to stop hiding behind the flag and show some real love for their country by displaying leadership on issues that actually matter.

[SteppingRazor]

5. You know what both these issues have in common?

They are both conservative outrage at a nonissue.

Who is demanding that christ be taken out of Christmas?

Too, who is out there burning the flag?

These are nonissues that are brought up BY CONSERVATIVES to invoke the ire of their base. Sorta like gay marriage, except that that one actually became an issue because gays felt they had to defend themselves. But if you look at the timeline of when gay marriage became a campaign issue, conservatives were screaming about it before liberals and gays ever took the bait and started fighting for gay marriage.

The right finds wedge issues and exacerbates them. It's the only reason a bunch of greedy fuckups can maintain power.

[trixie]

9. Agreed

I never could understand the point of it. Growing up and seeing the Viet Nam protests and the uproar over the flag but not much (from the other side) of the dead soldiers just confused me. Now I get it. If they scream loud enough the followers won't see what is really happening. :banghead:

[radio4progressives]

21. bingo again! you said it best! n/t

[napi21]

6. Well, I don't like to see our Flag burned because of hate, but

the thing I don't understand is, when I was a kid, I was alwasy taught that the only good way to dispose of a damaged or worn flag was to burn it. Have they changed that? If so, what are you supposed to do with them? In the decent weather, I alsawy have my flag out on a pole which mounts in a holder on my house. IT doesn't take a LONG time of decent winds to have it frayed and tattered, and it needs replaced.

[blm]

7. We're supposed to be a nation of symbols we can target in place of coups

and aiming at people.

Flagburning is just a demagogued issue.

When Chinese dissidents burned their flag, Americans applauded them and the Chinese government jailed them.

When Iraqis burned their flag, Americans applauded them and Saddam executed them.

Americans can be the biggest hypocrites in the world.

[radio4progressives]

19. Bingo! It's seems kind of obvious, but not enough HISTORY lessons

taught in uh-Mura-ka schools.

[The Whiskey Priest]

10. Substance over Symbolism

Maybe someday we will progress to the point where we fight for things that have meaning.

[AntiCoup2K4]

11. I've never felt especially compelled to burn a flag before......

....but right now, I'd like to torch a huge flagpole sized model right in the middle of a god damned DLC convention :grr:

[radio4progressives]

22. exactly my feelings! n/t

[adarling]

12. Agree

it is a person's right to burn the flag, free speech damn't and i am sorry if someone takes offense to it, then turn around and dont watch.

[seito]

13. The problem is it resonates with many moderates

The RW will use this issue to motivate their base and paint liberals as America hating traitors.

Fortunately, it will not work as well this time around. There are too many real issues that worry voters nowadays.

Like the majority of the RW rallying calls, it is a meaningless red herring. "Watch this while we screw you out of your job, your livelihood and your freedom."

[Imalittleteapot]

14. It should be illegal to burn

the flag housed in the Smithsonian that flew over Fort McHenry.
Burn the rest of them if you like.

[izzie]

15. I frankly do not care. So what if your mad and burn a flag.

---

[mcscajun]

16. Non-Issue of the first order...brought up only to bang on the big

self-promotion drum.

I'm reminded of a line from an early West Wing episode, where President Bartlet has just endured the ramblings of a proponent of a flag desecration constitutional amendment.

Bartlet: "There is a population in this country that seems to focus so much time and energy into this conversation, so much so that I am forced to ask this question -- is there an epidemic of flag burning going on that I'm not aware of?"

[flordehinojos]

17. i don't either, and mostly it goes to freedom of speech, doesn't it?

when people are so frustrated that their words are not heard, when they are pinned in "free speech zones" that really are, "shut up with your damn dissent zones" ... the act of flag burning speaks volumes.

Hillary should've thought it through and not allowed her emotionality to rule her vote.

[DanCa]

18. Than whats the difference between burning a book or a flag.?(nt)

Hey mopaul good news I got my new harps today.

[mopaul]

24. i support either side of the issue, just my opinion

hope they're lee oskars

[DanCa]

25. actually it's a hohner five key set and a neck holder.

I got a holder from hohner and use it when my hands start to shake too much hold the harp. Hey i have a question for you, do you know how to draw properply? If i draw more than two notes they sound shrill and hallow. I was wondering if my wieght or disabiity had anything to do with it. Oh am using a diatonic just fyi.

[DanCa]

20. Leave the flag alone burn pictures of the chimp .

That's who your really
mad at. :D
Ragged Old Flag Lyrics
by Johnny Cash
< Download Johnny Cash Ringtones > < Send to a friend >

I walked through a county courthouse square
On a park bench, an old man was sittin' there.
I said, "Your old court house is kinda run down,
He said, "Naw, it'll do for our little town".
I said, "Your old flag pole is leaned a little bit,
And that's a ragged old flag you got hangin' on it".
He said, "Have a seat", and I sat down,
"Is this the first time you've been to our little town"
I said, "I think it is"
He said "I don't like to brag, but we're kinda proud of
That Ragged Old Flag

"You see, we got a little hole in that flag there,
When Washington took it across the Delaware.
and It got powder burned the night Francis Scott Key sat watching it,
writing "Say Can You See"
It got a rip in New Orleans, with Packingham & Jackson
tugging at its seams.
and It almost fell at the Alamo
beside the Texas flag,
But she waved on though.
She got cut with a sword at Chancellorsville,
And she got cut again at Shiloh Hill.
There was Robert E. Lee and Beauregard and Bragg,
And the south wind blew hard on
That Ragged Old Flag

"On Flanders Field in World War I,
She got a big hole from a Bertha Gun,
She turned blood red in World War II
She hung limp, and low, a time or two,
She was in Korea, Vietnam, She went where she was sent
by her Uncle Sam.
She waved from our ships upon the briny foam
and now they've about quit wavin' back here at home
in her own good land here She's been abused,
She's been burned, dishonored, denied an' refused,
And the government for which she stands
Has been scandalized throughout out the land.
And she's getting thread bare, and she's wearin' thin,
But she's in good shape, for the shape she's in.
Cause she's been through the fire before
and i believe she can take a whole lot more.

"So we raise her up every morning
And we bring her down slow every night,
We don't let her touch the ground,
And we fold her up right.
On second thought
I *do* like to brag
Cause I'm mighty proud of
That Ragged Old Flag"

[Dances with Cats]

23. You know those postage stamps...

bearing the US flag? When they are disposed of is that burning the flag? Seems to me, yes....

[stickdog]

26. Why burn the flag when you can burn the Constitution instead? (nt)

[hollowdweller]

30. Bumpersticker: "Burn a Fat "J" not the flag"

[jimshoes]

31. Throw it back in their face and

make it illegal to desecrate it by flying it on your car.

[Ladyhawk]

32. Someone filed a false report that my peace group was burning a flag.

At the last peace vigil I attended, cops showed up asking first, "Is something on fire?" I looked around, puzzled. Finally, they asked, "Did you light something on fire?" Again I looked for smoke and said, "Um, no."

The cops said they'd received a report that we had been burning an American flag. :eyes: There were only about twenty of us there and yeah, we're really into flag burning. :sarcasm:

[EstimatedProphet]

33. The most valuable thing about our flag is that we can burn it

That's what pisses me off the most - burning the flag represents the thing that makes it most valuable - that we can make that kind of statement freely. It doesn't surprise me that the freeptards don't get that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. It's a free speech issue

One of the very first laws that Red China passed upon assuming control of Hong Kong was to make flag burning illegal. Saddam Hussein made desecration of the Iraq flag a criminal offense punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

Senator Bob Kerrey is more articulate than I could ever hope to be:
I fear the unintended consequences of these 17 words and the laws that may be enacted later will be far worse than the consequences of us witnessing the occasional and shocking and disgusting desecration of this great symbol of liberty and freedom.

Real patriotism cannot be coerced. It must be a voluntary, unselfish, brave act to sacrifice for others. And when Americans feel coercion especially from their government they tend to rebel. So none of us should be surprised Mr. Chairman if one unintended consequence of the laws that prohibit unpopular activity such as this is an actual increase in the incidents of flag desecration.

http://www.aclu.org//freespeech/flag/11124res20040304.html

[Swamp Rat]

35. Hell, GW writes his name on the Americans flag.

That's WORSE than burning it.

[Jacobin]

36. Yeah. Fuck the First Amendment. Who needs it

U.S. Supreme Court
TEXAS v. JOHNSON, 491 U.S. 397 (1989)
491 U.S. 397

TEXAS v. JOHNSON
CERTIORARI TO THE COURT OF CRIMINAL APPEALS OF TEXAS

No. 88-155.

Argued March 21, 1989
Decided June 21, 1989

During the 1984 Republican National Convention in Dallas, Texas, respondent Johnson participated in a political demonstration to protest the policies of the Reagan administration and some Dallas-based corporations. After a march through the city streets, Johnson burned an American flag while protesters chanted. No one was physically injured or threatened with injury, although several witnesses were seriously offended by the flag burning. Johnson was convicted of desecration of a venerated object in violation of a Texas statute, and a State Court of Appeals affirmed. However, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals reversed, holding that the State, consistent with the First Amendment, could not punish Johnson for burning the flag in these circumstances. The court first found that Johnson's burning of the flag was expressive conduct protected by the First Amendment. The court concluded that the State could not criminally sanction flag desecration in order to preserve the flag as a symbol of national unity. It also held that the statute did not meet the State's goal of preventing breaches of the peace, since it was not drawn narrowly enough to encompass only those flag burnings that would likely result in a serious disturbance, and since the flag burning in this case did not threaten such a reaction. Further, it stressed that another Texas statute prohibited breaches of the peace and could be used to prevent disturbances without punishing this flag desecration.

Held:

Johnson's conviction for flag desecration is inconsistent with the First Amendment. Pp. 402-420.

(a) Under the circumstances, Johnson's burning of the flag constituted expressive conduct, permitting him to invoke the First Amendment. The State conceded that the conduct was expressive. Occurring as it did at the end of a demonstration coinciding with the Republican National Convention, the expressive, overtly political nature of the conduct was both intentional and overwhelmingly apparent. Pp. 402-406.

[Silverhair]

37. I will fight to protect the right to burn the flag, but...

...if someone does it in front of me (Except respectful retirement of a worn-out flag) I may get rather emotional and hit the disrespecfful SOB.

Is that an internal contradiction? You bet it is. But then I am a complex person.