any writers or english teachers here??? I need some help with a thesis

[greenbriar]

about fast food advertising and how it affects teens/kids

my daughter 14 is trying to come up with a provable thesis statement about this and what ever I say gets shut down

[EFerrari]

1. Hmmm. What would she like to do? Has she floated ideas ? nt

[greenbriar]

2. here is kind of her angle

I. Introduction Paragraph
A. “I’m lovin’ it!” – McDonalds “Spangles it Just tastes better” –Spangles “Tastes great, even late” –Wendys “Have it your way, At B.K.” – Burger King. You hear all of these catchy tunes, and see all of the fun kid’s toys, and you know exactly what foods you are eating, or do you? How much un-necessary fat, cholesterol, and calories are in

[greenbriar]

7. here is some more of her thoughts

Fast food restaurants used to be places families went every once in a while, now for most it is a daily routine. Nowadays that is what children request as opposed to “mom’s home cooked meal”

[EFerrari]

17. What I would do:

Have her write out thesis statements, many as she can, on a piece of paper.

Then let her choose one she likes the best.

Worked for my college freshmen. :)

[greenbriar]

20. thats the problem...she gets blocked and really frustrated on thesis state

ments.

once she gets a working thesis, she kicks ass!!!

[EFerrari]

23. So, let her pick the one she likes best. It doesn't have to be

perfect. And she can always tinker with it later.

I know. I had the same trouble at that stage. :)

[SoonerShankle]

3. Some specifics on the assignment?

Is it a comparative paper? Cause/effect? etc.

Length matters in thesis selection too. The shorter the paper, the narrower the thesis.

Is it more about propaganda techniques? And if so, does she have notes about the persuasive techniques used in revealed propaganda like advertising?

I can help, but I need more information.

[greenbriar]

4. here is what she has so far...her angle...

that tasty cheese burger you are about to bite into?
B. For more than 14 years, these places have been advertising toys of the newest movies, or cookies, or some other thing to entice children into wanting that specific food product.

[greenbriar]

6. at this point, it can be almost anythign

1,500 words minimum...

propaganda techniques might be a good angle

[elfin]

5. Probably a survey in her lunchroom

would provide a start. Would have to be crafted to include both proximity of fast food offering, peer pressure AND advertising from various sources. Then she could include quotes with her study to prove or diaporve her thesis.

[greenbriar]

8. she plans on doing that, right now she needs a thesis statement

here is her outline in full


A. Recently fast food restaurants have been noticing the effects that their food has on people, and have started marketing apple slices, milk, and water as choice items, and although they still aren’t that healthy, fast food restaurants have started adding salads to the menus.
III. Your Topic
A. Our favorite fast food restaurants, although convenient, aren’t necessarily healthy nor wise choices

, they lead to things like obesity, and believe it or not, partial addiction.
B. Fast food restaurants used to be places families went every once in a while, now for most it is a daily routine. Nowadays that is what children request as opposed to “mom’s home cooked meal”
VI. Conclusion
A. Unhealthy Eating habits in children are caused by the way fast food is advertised.


B. Fast food restaurants promote their kid’s meals with toys and prizes of things like the recent movie characters.
C. What can our society do to help promote, and impose healthy eating habits on our future generations.


D. We need to try to impose healthy eating habits on our children and strive for healthier children.

[knitter4democracy]

14. Have her do a longer brainstorming session

She needs to find three big areas to focus on and then three or four smaller points within those big areas. Have her see if the entire point is only marketing or if she wants to make other points.

The first big area is to prove that the food is unhealthy. She's got the point that they serve salads, but then she needs to prove that they're unhealthy (like with fat gram numbers, etc.).

The second big point that I see marketing. The fast food companies are taking advantage of children and trying to program them into buying their food as often as possible.

The third big point that I see is the change in eating habits and the eventual impact on health from the impact on marketing to children.

Her last point should go in her conclusion paragraph, as that's the best place to tie it all together into an editorial-like point.

[all.of.me]

9. sounds like my 15 year old's project

it is state mandated for each sophomore to write a 10 page paper on any topic they choose. she chose how the media affects how teens see themselves. she's reading about bulimia, anorexia, plastic surgery, etc. very enlightening for her (probably affirming everything i've told her over the years). i think your daughter's topic is just as interesting. it's good they know how influenced they are by the outside. they may now care now, but they'll look back on this info in a few short years.

maybe you could steer her towards advertising and manipulation in general, then gear it towards fast food.

[greenbriar]

10. she is 14 this week in the 8th grade

she always stresses out during the personal project time

[Jazzgirl]

16. Greenbriar, have her do a search on

marketing techniques by these fast food companies. That will help a lot. Also, don't forget the fact that you have both parents working and often they go to the fast food joint for convenience. They're tired....

[Quakerfriend]

11. Perhaps she would like to write about the fact that other

countries such as Ireland, Japan and Canada specifically prohibit the advertizing of junk food to young children. They have laws against 'corrupting' children in this way.

-From a biochemist and nutritional researcher.

[SoonerShankle]

12. So maybe focus on...

the type of propaganda -- the glittering generalities that sound good, but don't mean anything.

The arguability of the thesis will hinge on the effectiveness of the technique, not which technique is used or how it is being used. I don't think that anyone can argue with the fact that teens and children are targeted consumers or that glittering generalities are used. Maybe try to link the use of the glittering generalities to the success of the sales campaign. Think how popular Wendy's "Where's the Beef?" ads were. Did Wendy's sales go up because of this? Does McDonald's sales drop because they no longer use Ronald in their ads luring kids to buy Happy Meals? Maybe do a survey by asking other students if they have ever heard of these slogans? And if so, did they know which companies they were? This might give her something local to form an opinion upon. (of course this won't work if the paper is due tomorrow...)

[knitter4democracy]

13. Have her fit that angle into a basic form, if just for a rough draft.

We had to teach the eleven sentence paragraph format in the schools I taught in. Here's the basic layout:
I. Intro
Last sentence is the thesis statement which states her argument and the topic of each supporting paragraph. Example: "Fast food corporations use catchy slogans and slick marketing to sell their unhealthy food." (one paragraph for each of those three points)

II-IV. Body Paragraphs
Each point she makes has to be backed up with evidence, and then she needs to tie that evidence back to the point. She can't leave it hanging by itself, or the reader might come to a different conclusion or not understand where's she's headed. Example: "McDonald's takes advantage of children. The Ronald McDonald spokesman is recognized all over the world (citation). Children know him better than they do the politicians who govern their countries or religious figures (citation). This is leads to the children then asking for McDonald's unhealthy product, if just because they recognize it more easily."

V. Conclusion
She can start with the thesis statement and then expand out to a larger view of the topic or a view of where the trend is headed in the future.


This is all boiled down from a longer lesson I would give on the form, but the most important thing for her to remember is this: the essay is always a persuasive form. She is trying to persuade the reader she is right. She cannot use the second person then, as it can offend the reader or make incorrect assumptions, and she needs to use strong evidence and explanation of that evidence as her best weapons.

[ultraist]

15. .

self delete

Shouldn't have bothered.

[knitter4democracy]

18. Ummm

She can't just simplify and rework something someone else wrote for her thesis statement. That needs to be 100% hers.

[ultraist]

19. Ummm...

She can use the subject material. High school research papers are not based on original research, they are a presentation of existing research, cited of course.

Do you honestly think that the thesis is going to be l00% original?

[greenbriar]

21. ummm 95% original

and that is why she has trouble

once that thesis is set, she goes to town

[ultraist]

24. lol.

Let us know what the "original" thesis is. She's obviously not doing her own study but relying on existing research.

[knitter4democracy]

26. There's a difference, though.

The essay is to be her own work, and the thesis statement is to be all hers, not something she basically copied from someone else's work.

The essay is to use existing research to make her own point. Will it be entirely original? No, but it should be different enough that if the teacher looks it up, she'll see that the student found a new way to combine things or a new way to look at a problem. Granted, she's not a senior in high school (whom I taught most of the time), but she can't start copying other work now and expect to be successful in the future.

I would rather, as a former high school English teacher, see a poorly worded essay I know is truly the student's work than see a well-written one that is obviously copied from somewhere else. Copying teaches the student nothing, really, but working it through and coming up with a way to say it in her own particular style does.

[madmom]

22. *Gryphon steals Mom's computer*.....

So, it's not exactly helping with the thesis, but I know in my advertising classes, we spent a long time dicussing the use of colors and how they effect the brain (red=fast, therefore you'll get your food faster, yellow stimulates the appitite, ect.{ http://www.4hb.com/0134sdenergizecolor.html }). Take a quick look at fast food restuarants and food lables, you'll see mostly red and yellow, with the occasional dollop of blue or green.

I remember dicussing a study (but not the weres of whyfores of the study, sorry) where young children who'd yet to begin speaking recognised the "Golden Arches" as redily as their mothers' face-anyone around kids themselves knows how that'n goes. ;)

[fed-up]

25. I disagree and think that parents play a bigger role, don't blame it all

on the kids.

Kids are taken to fast food places by their parents as youngsters and then they repeat those bad habits as adults.

Parents are supposed to be the ones in control of the $$ and what their kids eat when they are younger. They are setting up life long patterns!

The only thing that broke our bad habit of fast food was when my then 14 YO read "Fast Food Nation" in his college class (yes, I was one of those awful left wing home schooling moms) and I read it at the same time.

We had already started changing what we ate as fast food when I started reading the nutritional lists that were posted at Wendy's when I took care of my mom after her stroke and saw the fat content in a bacon cheese burger.

When Sean read the book for both his sociology and health class at college he decided he didn't want to eat any more of that "fake" food. I helped reinforce his/our decision by no longer stopping at fast food places. He now describes in detail exactly what is done to the "meat" that his friends are eating, while they are eating it. :)

I take the responsibility for what had started as a bad habit, but then was changed by his/our education.

[The Whiskey Priest]

27. Fast Food targets children

The younger they reach them the more likely they are to build a lifelong loyal consumer; which is the reason for "Happy Meals," cartoon characters used for product identification, business relationships with the latest movies, cartoons or fads.

That has accelerated in the past few years with schools facing budget shortfalls and entering into sponsorship of fast food in the schools.

The book Fast Food Nation contains information supporting the above.