MSNBC: Do you believe there is really a "war on Christmas"?

[sabra]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080261/#survey

Do you believe there is really a "war on Christmas"?

* 20679 responses


Yes 51%
No 49%

:spray:

[AlCzervik]

1. done and kick

[TechBear_Seattle]

2. Yes, there is

And it is the Talibangelicals who are waging it. What the bloody heck does trees, shopping malls and Santa Claus have to do with the religious aspects of Christmas, anyway?

[YOY]

3. Sad that 51% thinks that.

Really sad...

[Marie26]

22. I think that's even higher than the Fox News poll!

But I guess it makes sense if no one even cares enough to vote on such a silly poll except the die-hard fundamentalists.

[MADem]

4. Who ARE these idiots???? Why don't they ask if there is a war on

free fucking speech????

[walldude]

5. The saw it on TV!!!!! It must be true..

Sad... Obviously we shouldn't take for granted that everyone is as informed as the people on DU...

[progressivebydesign]

6. Better poll for those folks:

Do You Waste Your Precious Time Worrying About Things That Have No Real Bearing On Your Life? Yes or No

Do You Look To Others To Tell You What You Think? Yes or No

Do You Imagine Great Conspiracies To Rob You Of Truly Unimportant Things Like How A Store Employee Greets You? Yes or No

Do You Feel It Is Your Place In This World To Impose Your Religion On Others At All Times? Yes or No

Do You Look The Other Way When It Is Pointed Out That The TRUE War On Christmas And All It SHOULD Stand For Should Be About All Of The Families, Children, Elderly, Veterans, And Ill, Who Will Be Homeless On Christ's Birthday? Yes or No

Do You Believe That TV Commentators Have Your Best Interest At Heart? Yes or No

Do People Tell You Repeatedly To "GET A LIFE"? Yes or No.

[MADem]

10. You got that right!!! n/t

[smirkymonkey]

50. Touche!

Will they ever get it?

[sabra]

77. LOL

[havocmom]

7. Now at * 20825 responses

Do you believe there is really a "war on Christmas"? * 20825 responses
Yes 51%
No 49%

[Union Thug]

8. A war on christmas...please...

We've got over 2000 US dead in Iraq, over 100,000 dead Iraqis, chaos in New Orleans and these jackasses have the audacity to conjure up this bullshit...What a bunch of self-delusional assholes.

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. Well, time to DU this thing

[HereSince1628]

11. I believe they mean Xmas

[Roxy66]

12. On a Right-wing radio show here in Idaho...they think it's ridiculous

There was a huge response by righties this morning on a Right-wing radio show and a majority of the callers thought it was truly silly. They said Chrismas trees have nothing to do with the birth of Christ in the first place, and that stores shouldnt have to say Christmas because shopping is a Winter Solstace(sp)tradition, not a Christmas one. I was really suprised. Most said it was very phony.
:think:

[EFerrari]

23. That's cool. I miss real Republicans that you could disagree with

without feeling nauseous

:)

[Roxy66]

27. bump

[Roxy66]

44. kick....the Fundies are voting too!! Lets take em' down!!

[mattclearing]

13. At 50-50 now. n/t

[Marr]

14. This is probably the most brazen wedge issue I've ever seen.

I've never seen a wedge issue that was so removed from reality, or so obviously manufactured and marketed as this one. These types of things are meant to sow division and hatred, and the fact that they're using the Christmas holiday for this purpose just disgusts me.

[EFerrari]

15. done 50/50

[BuyingThyme]

16. Dear America,

You are a country of morans.

[Nimrod2005]

29. Amen....

[billybob537]

17. I reject the premise

This is a fundie talking point to bring Religious WHACKJOBS to a lather. A la "they hate our freedom"! Reject this fundie myth and wish everyone whatever you like. Have a nice day.

[Dawgs]

18. Another bullshit poll..

Many liberals think there is a war on Christmas from the right.

Results mean nothing in this one; what else is new?

[Eugene]

19. Done - 50/50

21298 votes

20. All of these issues of

status quo have to come to a head sooner or later, such as school prayer, definition of marriage. The Christians are getting unfair privileges such as Christmas holidays off at work (as opposed to Hanuka). On their merits, the fundies lose on these issues, so they try to install pro-Christian judges, and politicians to keep their privileges.

[xchrom]

21. current

Do you believe there is really a "war on Christmas"?   * 21298 responses
Yes 50% No 50%

[BlueManDude]

24. 50-50 check out the first graph of that story...

"The ACLU and a lot of other people have been trying to take Christ out of Christmas for years."

Oh man.

:wtf:

[kenny blankenship]

25. Love the unbiased intro they frame the question with

(from msnbc) is this supposed to be a disclaimer?
"Is there a war on Christmas? The ACLU and a lot of other people (jews mostly) have been trying to take Christ out of Christmas for years..."

Ok so it didn't ACTUALLY say "Jews", but we all know what the ACLU is a code term for.

[salvorhardin]

26. What do you expect?

The wording of the poll comes directly from the Scarborough Country transcript.

Is there a war against Christmas? The ACLU and a lot of other people have been trying to take Christ out of Christmas for years. At this time of year, many people will believe that that's a real concern. in Newport News, Va., an estimated 8,000 people showed up for the town's Christmas celebration, except they are calling it that. They're calling it Hollydazzle. And instead of lighting the 40-foot Christmas tree, Newport News officials are going to be lighting, get this, the tree of illumination.

The events are also going to include, of course, Frosty the Snowman, make-your-own-snow globes, and that traditional Christmas fair, Mr. and Mrs. Mouse.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080261/#survey
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10297701

Joe Scarborough and Christopher Hitchens debate the 'War on Christmas', along with Matt Staver of the Liberty Counsel (a war-on-xmas activist group). Of course, it's a totally bogus issue. There is no 'War on Christmas'. Atheists and secular humanists don't want to take away anyone's right to celebrate that which they hold sacred and dear. There has been, over the past few decades an increased attempt at recognizing all the religions that celebrate holy days at this time of year and as such local governments have been more intent at not appearing to endorse any one religion.

However, this isn't anything new. In 1959, the John Birch Society helped kick off this particular right-wing paranoid conspiracy theory.

In 1959, the recently formed John Birch Society issued an urgent alert: Christmas was under attack. In a JBS pamphlet titled "There Goes Christmas?!" a writer named Hubert Kregeloh warned, "One of the techniques now being applied by the Reds to weaken the pillar of religion in our country is the drive to take Christ out of Christmas -- to denude the event of its religious meaning." The central front in this perfidious assault was American department stores, where the "Godless UN" was scheming to replace religious decorations with internationalist celebrations of universal brotherhood.

"The UN fanatics launched their assault on Christmas in 1958, but too late to get very far before the holy day was at hand," the pamphlet explained. "They are already busy, however, at this very moment, on efforts to poison the 1959 Christmas season with their high-pressure propaganda. What they now want to put over on the American people is simply this: Department stores throughout the country are to utilize UN symbols and emblems as Christmas decorations."

According to the JBS, this assault on yuletide iconography was "part of a much broader plan, not only to promote the UN, but to destroy all religious beliefs and customs." The pamphlet called on all Americans to fight back by informing department stores that those with improper ornamentation wouldn't be getting their business.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/11/21/christmas

You know what the difference was between then and now though? In 1959 the John Birch Society was treated as a bunch of far-right kooks. Barry-freaking-Goldwater wouldn't have anything to do with them!

BTW: Here's my take on the so-called "war on xmas"

Selling a giant war on Christmas
What does a 2,200 pound hunk of rock lying beneath a tent in Cooperstown, NY tell us about the religious right? Quite a bit more than you might think, especially the lying part. And, if you’re real good (or at least real quiet), you just might get another one for Christmas.
Full article here: http://www.neuralgourmet.com/giantwaronxmas

[eppur_se_muova]

65. Thanks for the history lesson, John Birchers, etc.

Important to know where all this happy horseshit comes from.

[zbdent]

28. Yes - but the interpretation is incorrect

Christmas was just sitting there, and the Right declared war on it . . .

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. Seeing things like this I can't help but be reminded that a decade

before the massacres and concentration camps and ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia, the world was celebrating the winter olympics at Sarajevo.

Hatred can move a civilization to shit very, very quickly. All you need is a core of fanatics and a lot of scared sheep.

[iconoclastNYC]

31. kick and done. 50/50 as of now.

[Bridget Burke]

32. Every minute the news folks waste on the "War on Christmas"

* Is a minute the unending carnage in Iraq is not mentioned.

* Is a minute the neglected hurricane survivors are not mentioned.

* Is a minute the latest Republican corruption scandal is not mentioned.

For all my fellow Traditionalists: Every time a Republican is indicted, an angel gets its wings.

Why don't the neo-Puritans return to abjuring the Pagan/Popish holiday(s) & let the rest of us celebrate as we wish?

[Rainbowreflect]

33. Done & kicked

This is completely idiotic!

[SunDrop23]

34. Kicked...it is now 50/50

[Kurovski]

35. It's just more bullshit to distract from BushCo's doings

and to rally the "Culture War" right-wing to make 'em feel loved and important. Since they're too fucking stupid to follow what the government actually does, it makes them feel like "involved Christian citizens".

[GardeningGal]

36. I voted no.

If they had an option of "You've got to be kidding me" I would have voted for that.

[yurbud]

37. 23944 responses 50/50 keep voting

[peppin]

38. Done n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. Well I left a comment

asking why those who are expending their energies promoting this 'war on Christmas' idea aren't down on the Gulf Coast helping Katrina victims or feeding hungry children instead of selling 'war on Christmas' bracelets. Seems like that would be a better way to commemorate the birth of Jesus (who was actually born in October).

I said the only 'war on Christmas' is in the imagination of religious zealots who are really waging a war on the ACLU and liberals.

I also asked why those who are so concerned about this 'war on Christmas' aren't objecting to the president's holiday greetings or bill o'reilly's holiday ornaments or the mega churches that aren't having services on Christmas Day.

I wanted to tell them that these people are a bunch of idiotic and dangerous kooks who offend me down to the fiber of my being but I decided that would be kind of extreme. LOL

[Kurovski]

49. Well said, proud2Blib! (nt)

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. Thanks

I wonder if they'll read it.

[noamnety]

59. I left a comment, too

Would you all mind reporting on REAL news?

Christmas is primarily a religious celebration. Those who are Christian are free to celebrate it, as they always have been in our country. Those who aren't Christian are free not to celebrate it, or to celebrate it as a secular holiday. Some Americans are Christian, some aren't. This isn't new; this isn't a story.

Hollydazzle, snow globes, frosty the snowman ... all drivel you are disguising as news. Perhaps it's cheaper to cover this than do real investigative reporting?

Instead of snow globes, try covering global warming; instead of Frosty, how about Frist?

I'm far more concerned about the war on intelligent journalism than I am about the war on Christmas.

[proud2BlibKansan]

72. Good one!

[joegodfather88]

40. done 50/50 24083 votes

People who think there's a "War on Christmas" are idiots. I was born and raised Catholic, so I am inclined to say "Merry Christmas" to people. I have Jewish friends, I have Muslim friends, I have Athist friends. Just knowing them I know none of them will be offended if someone says "Merry Christmas" to them. It is more polite to say "Happy Holidays," sure, but from knowing people of different religions, most dont think that old man Santa is raining hellfire on their Holidays. No one is going to be offended if you tell them "Merry Christmas." And if they do get offended, apologize, say you did not know they do not celebrate Christmas, and get on with life. I don't see where the big debate is. I think conservative Christians who still think theirs is the only religion out there are just mad because they feel they have to say "Happy Holidays" instead of Merry Christmas." But people of other religions aren't pressuring them to say "Happy Holidays." It jsut happens to be a nicer way and includes everyone. I don't see whats wrong with trying to include everyone. December is not just a month of Christian holidays, and its about time people stop being scared of offending others when they should be feeling united this time of year.

[triguy46]

41. Just voted, 3:27 CST, 50-50. Burn the Straw Man!!!

[helderheid]

42. K & R & 50/50

Do you believe there is really a "war on Christmas"? * 24171 responses


Yes
50% No
50%

[PurityOfEssence]

43. How DARE they not let us rule the earth!

As we demand to be morally superior to all others, those who murmur for pluralism are vicious monsters bent on destroying us. We have the right to dominate the world, and anyone who gets in our way is persecuting us. They have neither the right to state their beliefs in public nor stand in the way of us forcing others to endorse ours. We are better. Anyone who doesn't understand that is sick.

[Parche]

45. war on

War on idiot Republican right wingers

[gizmo1979]

46. Who started this crap?

War on Xmas? where did all this mumbo jumbo start?

[Crunchy Frog]

48. The Republican propaganda machine. n/t

[salvorhardin]

71. 1959. John Birch Society. See my post earlier in this thread. n/t

[Hardrada]

47. If you are an atheist or a Buddhist (I am trending to BOTH)

you can still say Merry Christmas because it's not like saying the fucking Nicene Creed!!! IDIOT WEDGE ISSUE MAKERS!!! You all believe in Hell. So go there already!!!

[Blue State Blues]

51. Now Yes 49% No 51% NT

[in_cog_ni_to]

52. NO 51% yes 49%

Do you believe there is really a "war on Christmas"? * 25976 responses


Yes
49% No
51%

[K8-EEE]

53. wow...that is just unbelievable!

that there even EXISTS that many people who actually believe in the Xmas Boogie Man Gonna Take Away Your Xmas. GOD!

[AuntiBush]

54. They're Profits - that's what their worried about, not Christmas.

Wanna bet every FReeper & paid-pundit is clearing caches, using other browsers from home to work just to up that anti...

Don't buy it.

[dalloway]

55. no 51%

[bigwillq]

57. Done

Do you believe there is really a "war on Christmas"? * 26067 responses


Yes
49%
No
51%

[Tsiyu]

58. Ookay. I am really scared, now.

Really.

I am.

:scared:

[Joey Liberal]

60. Done! n.t

[UDenver20]

61. My god... my country is made of IDIOTS...

only 51% of people believe there is NO war on Christmas.

It should be 91%.

[AlwaysDemocrat]

62. Done 51 percent NO (n/t)

[Gregorian]

63. The war on democracy is far more disturbing.

I am now of the belief that fascism is not just an idea. I believe Americans don't realize the peril their country is in. Fuck Christmas. It's not important.

[eppur_se_muova]

64. LOL! Look at the story rating! 1/2 out of 5 stars!

Don't forget to vote the story down! Best of all, vote the story down and DON'T take the poll!

ON EDIT: Dang, that's nonreproducible...but vote it down!!

[progressivebydesign]

66. The cynical ratbastards are asking: WHY do they hate Jesus?

I mean.. that's EXACTLY what they're doing with this! It's another.. "why do you hate america?" con job. Now we hate Jesus and Christmas. They are the meanest, cruelest, most heartless bastards of all. I say this because this campaign to "save christmas" is not about religious people, it's about politics. It's the latest installment of "Democrats are godless and value-less". First it was gay marriage, now this. The people who are perpetuating this in the media are not Christians, because if they were, they'd be concerned about Judgement Day and know that what they are doing is opposite of what Jesus would do.

[Tiggeroshii]

67. hah

51-49 now! :)

[rosesaylavee]

68. Silly stuff this... what with a war, DC corruption at an all time high...

Do you believe there is really a "war on Christmas"? * 26561 responses

Yes 49%
No 51%

[womanofthehills]

69. Randi's funny song today

Today Randi Rhodes said there were flurries in NY and she sang a "Christmas Song"

"It's beginning to look a lot like ....... SEASONS"

[Mr_Spock]

70. Half the people who voted are stupid idiot mother fucking redneck morons?

Holy shit!!

We're doomed I tell ya, doomed...

[B Calm]

73. All republican wedge issues are fabricated with an agenda!

[stickdog]

74. What would Jesus care?

Is there really a War on Those who Hunger and Thirst For Justice?

Is there really a War on the Peacemakers?

Is there really a War on the Least of My Brothers?

[Spinzonner]

75. No, I haven't heard anything about Oh Tannenbomb

[tsuki]

76. Can't vote because I do think that Rupert Murdock and his

Saudi money men are waging war on the American way of life, including Christmas.

[radio4progressives]

78. voted it's now turned around - 49 Yes and 51 NO

i also wrote them a note.. said this was a canard generated by big business and an unholy alliance with the christian right. also mentioned the fact that root meaning of Holiday is Holy Day.

seems pretty respectful of religion to me.