air marshalls should be allowed to kill anyone they want to.

[unblock]

(on edit: spelling)

air marshalls are essentially part our troops on the front lines of the war on terror. and we should support the troops. anyone who disagrees with some of the shooting our troops are doing are traitors. they are trained professionals putting their lives on the line to save us all. they fight terrorists in the jetway so passengers don't have to fight them in the aisles. except when the terrorists actually are in the aisles, in which case they chase them out to the jetway. they also karate chops cell phones out of passengers' hands and force them to lie down. they do this so the innocent can't see what's going on because witnesses only undermine troop morale. they also do this in case any of the other passengers are in on it, they'll be harder to see under the seats because our troops like a challenge.

so if you bring an ipod on board and start singing along to "don't fear the reaper", don't be surprised to find a few bullets in your belly by the time you get to the second verse. it's your fault to pick a song that trained air marshalls could twist into an implication that there's a bomb on board. it's also your fault for totally cranking the music so much that you didn't hear them ask you to drop to the ground. it's also your fault for turning around right before they shot you, because that's just what a terrorist would have done. or might have done. they do things like stand up, sit down, turn around and stuff. and maybe they use ipods to blend in. or maybe the ipod was actually a bomb, or a triggering device, or a communication device to your fellow terrorists.

oh sure, it's easy for YOU to say that it was just an ipod, not a bomb, but the air marshalls had just a split second to decide whether or not to drop you or to do nothing and risk the deaths of everyone on the plane. and you know, when planes blow up, they fall out of the sky and parts drop on people in the city below. there are millions of people who live in cities, and all their lives are at risk. so when it comes down to it, it's a pretty easy decision for them to just drop you. you're just one person, and you were singing off key.

next time, you'll know better and alert the flight personnel and airport security to the fact that you're carrying an ipod and that your song selection might overlap with the musical taste of certain terrorists. in any event, i feel much safer knowing that there are undercover government people on my plane, possibly sitting next to me, who would be happy to kill anyone who makes them nervous. after all, if it weren't for them, the plane might get taken over by terrorists who would be happy to kill anyone who makes them nervous.

[RagingInMiami]

1. We owe them for our freedom

And freedom doesn't come free

[unblock]

2. that's right. freedom costs a buck-oh-five

:rofl:

[Parche]

3. freedom

We should never cut and run from the airport.......

[Dances with Cats]

43. Are you serious?

I'm really curious....

[MissB]

60. Sarcasm is a tough nut to crack on message boards.

But both unblocks and Raging in Miami are being extremely sarcastic.

[SPKrazy]

4. FAM's are part of the war on terror

And while it is terrible what happened in Miami, I am glad that there are people undercover on planes that are there to protect the rest of us.

[RagingInMiami]

19. Yes, I feel so much safer now

[SPKrazy]

21. Well, I do! n/t

[LostinVA]

53. Me, too... I especially feel safe knowing I could get a slug in the

back for.... just because!

[RagingInMiami]

65. Hey

It's the price to pay for "democracy". And if you do get a slug in the back, it was a sacrifice for your country.

[donco6]

5. You're starting to sound like Mark Morford.

And that's a compliment! Ha!

[burythehatchet]

6. 9/11 changed everything, didn't it?

[SammyWinstonJack]

47. That's what Pinhead** keeps trying to sell us.

:eyes:

[jbnow]

58. Yes it did and we should

thank them for killing us and taking away our rights and putting us on watch lists if we protest the war and lowering taxes on the rich and help for the poor and starting wars.

Cause like you said 9/11 changed everything and bush said a good line standing on the ruins so he is our man and god doesn't like gays and so on.

I see the false light!

[TahitiNut]

7. They can shoot all the cellphone users they want!

After all, those cellphones are used to detonate the BOMBS!!! Gotta blow their brains out before they dial!! :crazy: :scared: :nuke: :scared: :tinfoilhat: :banghead: :woohoo: :patriot: :patriot: :yoiks:

[HysteryDiagnosis]

46. Don't you just love it when a cell phone user shoves his/her

conversation down your throat?? Like you really want to know the intimate details of their lives.... makes me want to vomit this inappropriate and rude behavior.

[bettyellen]

8. i'd get scared and run if they weren't there to shoot the scared people..

who run!

:scared:

[stickdog]

57. Yep. It's just the price we have to pay to keep us all

in line.

[Catchawave]

9. All the facts are in from the MIA Field Office then?

:shrug:

[unblock]

10. fog of war. facts are for those sadly trapped in the fact-based reality.

[Catchawave]

14. Ok, my son is a FAM......

I trust him more :)

[SPKrazy]

16. I can't even believe this thread...

I hope it was intended as sarcasm as it seems like a flamebait post to me.

[Catchawave]

17. Flamebait post by a mod....nah...LOL....n/t

[SPKrazy]

18. Well, I wonder N/T

[Catchawave]

Scary, it just went to the Greatest Page....

So DU endorses this ? :puke:

[unblock]

26. no accounting for taste

making the greatest page just means that, for whatever reasons, the thread got recommendations from at least 5 members. it's not an official 'endorsement'.

officially, du would disavow any knowledge of me or my posts.

[Catchawave]

29. My apologies for not understanding.....

"DU taste"....it's still very upsetting to me that air marshals are being treated like whack-job criminals these past 48 hours. It's creeper-freeperish to me.

My son's been a FAM for 4 years, I'm as proud of him as anyone would be if their child is in harm's way to protect our citizens. Threads framing them as killers, hurts me more than you know Mr/Ms Mod, so allow me to cyber bitchslap you, or STFU, okay? :hi:

[Lerkfish]

40. well, if they didn't insist on killing people, then they wouldn't be

framed as killers.

:shrugs: for the record, I think the problem is NOT that we had a trigger happy individual FAM. That would be unfortunate and tragic but within the realm of statistics...HOWEVER...The problem is how they've lied and spun to cover it up. That is what is troublesome.

If this discussion hurts you, perhaps you could hide the thread from yourself.

[Catchawave]

50. Hide this thread...hide this thread?

...are you fking kidding me? Not until you (generic) prove THEY lied. I know "them". This is what sucks for me being on DU right now and reading all the sh*t posted about FAMs. It's been a freaking freeperish experience these past 48 hours. On DU, WTF? I'm between a rock and hard place, I'm related to a special needs and a FAM. What a democratic feeling to watch/read them both being trashed over and over on these threads. It's not a public debate, it's a trashing.

Buy a clue DUers :hi:

[LostinVA]

59. Nothing the ,least bit Freeperish, except for the posts

gloating over "the good shot." The story has been and is still being spun. That is a fact. The "bomb" story has also morphed, FAM testimonies do not jibe with either the wife's or fellow passengers, etc. o one is cutting down your son or all FAMs... but it sounds like these guys (or gals) did something not that great, and are CYAing like crazy. So, we don't need to buy a clue. We understand what's going on. And, what these FAMs did does tar all FAMs with a very bad brush, which sucks. You should angry at THEM, slapping your son with that brush due to their actions, not us, who hate the thought of an innocent person being killed so unnecessarily.

And, of course they lie. Law enforcement always lies to cover their own. Like doctors, lawyers, etc. It's what happens.

Peace, CAW -- no one is tearing up your son.

[Lerkfish]

66. my profession is trashed every day on this forum...

and, in many if not most cases, the criticism is wellfounded. Often, it is unfounded.
I do not take it personally. (nor do I wish to reveal my profession, as its immaterial to this or other discussions.)

are we not allowed to discuss current events on the chance that some DUer is related to someone in the same profession?
This is the problem we had with another member who happened to be a policeman...they came into every discussion of taser abuse and took everything personally.
As I stated in my post, I think this is an individual screw up. I think the FAM on the scene made a mistaken unrighteous shoot. And that's unfortunate, but it does happen, even with good law enforcement people. HOWEVER, I'm also stating that if you cannot seperate your own family situation from the valid discussion of the issue without getting this bent out of shape, for your own blood pressure, perhaps you should avoid the thread, because trying to shame ME because your son is a FAM doesn't really work. I simply don't know your son, I don't care if he is a FAM, and it has absolutely no bearing on my opinion this was a non-righteous shoot, and that the coverup and shifting alibis are worrisome.

[jbnow]

62. I think we are all glad for FAMs

Saying that some seemed to show poor judgment is not the same as slamming them all.

I realize this thread is a wider sarcasm, but sometimes you have to laugh so as not to cry.

It's like we do "support the troops", recognize the need for and appreciate the military. But when some do something wrong we don't support that action.

I know we aren't un their shoes, we don't know all the facts. But it's troubling to see how the story has changed and our heart goes out to the man who died more then to the man who killed.

[Bluerthanblue]

71. i'm sorry too-

that people can't stop lumping 'groups' together and not looking at individuals-
I don't think all sky marshals are wack-job criminals. But- BUT, neither do i believe they are all free of predjuce, imperfection, and fallibility.

Did these 2 specific marshals make a mistake- ? Clearly- they did- there was no bomb- no actual threat to anyones life, (except the passenger who was killed) and no real definable reason why this man is no longer living except for the fact that they made a mistake in judgement- WHICH is what they do for a living.

Do i believe it was intentional? Not from anything i've heard or read. The only thing that troubles me is the CYA mentality that clearly began even before the story hit the press. Marshals are human beings- and they are as liable to screw up as any person. Sadly, like anyone in a position where life hangs in the balance- Dr.'s, soldiers, anyone who works in occupations where death is not uncommon, we as a society espect a level of perfection that is unrealistic- and unfair.

You know your son, and you are proud of him- hearing him lumped into a pig/pile that says he's intrinsicly 'evil' or 'trigger happy' angers and frustrates you. On the other hand, please understand that when the media, the wh, and those with little or no understanding or knowledge of this situation come out and say "oh, it was the lunitic's fault-" or "his wife should have stopped him" or "why wasn't he on his meds" it's no different for those of us who DO understand the flip side-

Yes, this man acted in a way that would have caused the Marshals to respond- The man, however, was not able to have a 'choice' in what he was experiencing- he wasn't 'doing his job' he was in a crisis- and the Marshals - who were put onto extra alert about potential new 'bomb' threats prior to this flight- were likely more vigilant, and stressed than usual- They made a 'judgement' call- and their 'judgement' something they DID have a 'consious' choice about, caused the death of an innocent man. Period- not intentionally- not maliciously (again from anything I've heard or read) but they did kill a man who should not have died.

I blame (if blame can fall anywhere) those who clearly had the power to stop this man who was clearly distraught BEFORE boarding the flight, for allowing him to be put in this position, and forcing the marshals to make the choice they did- Where was 'Airport security"???? Where were the flight attendents who must have seen there was a problem here- those who make their money and earn their living dealing with passengers, and potential passengers every day- People who refuse to allow someone on a plane because they have a 'targeted name'???? THEY FAILED EVERYONE here-

And given the fact that there is security tape showing this man clearly in an agitated state quite awhile before boarding, there is no way "homeland security' can deny that 'they knew' ---

This issue hurts many of us, for many reasons-

bitchslap me if you like- vent on me all you want- but lets not just suck it up, and pretend everything is okey-dokey- You don't want your son to ever be in this position- And I don't either- neither do I want to hear about a person being killed because their behaviour 'scared' armed security people into shooting them to death. The way to make that happen is to look at the situation long and hard- and with honest, open minds.- In this way something good can be salvaged out of something so terrible-

peace
blu

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

30. In my best Mr. Roger's voice... Can you say "Tongue... In... Cheek?"

I thought you could!

[Catchawave]

38. Have you seen the other threads?

Sorry if I've lost my sense of humor. This is serious shit to some of us with special needs and FAMs in their family :hi: And no, I didn't see the :sarcasm: point of the OP either :(

[unblock]

39. hey, this is serious shit for all of us

speaking as someone who flies on planes, commutes through a known terrorist target, works in manhattan, and has a delusional brother, this is a particularly serious topic for me as well as many others.

but serious issues and a bit of humor on a friday night are not altogether incompatible....

oh, and tell your son thanks for doing what he does :hi:

[GuvWurld]

31. This OP is hilarious. How can you think it was serious?

What you have to fear in life: The US government, and the continued inability of US citizens to rise up against the U.S. government. Take control of your own fate. And have a nice day. :)

[Dances with Cats]

45. Then you should "recuse" yourself from this thread.

No way could you be expected to be objective. Please don't take offense, none is intended.

[crikkett]

52. would you please ask your son...

... whether this is the first person EVER to get shot by a Federal Air Marshall, and if not, who and was shot before and when?

MSM reports "first since 9/11" and I don't trust that statement. :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

I think that statement's spin, that it's purpose is to diffuse the public's anger and shock over how an innocent man travelling during the holiday season can get shot. You know, the theory being that if you invoke 9/11 then people shut up.

My serious question is about MSM's reporting, not FAM's action. No sarcasm here. I trust your son, too.

Thanks, very much.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

11. K&R! Especially the mentally ill! And Gypsies! And then Non_Christians!

Und then Ve Vill Haf der Homeland Safe for Our Glorious Corporations!!!!!

Seig Heil!

[Canadian Socialist]

12. From what I've heard, the FAMs are easy to pick out of a crowd

what with the "grooming" regulations they have to abide by. Having said that, would it be wrong of me to approach them and request certain people be "detained"? You know, the back of seat kicking kid, the armrest hoarder, the old lady with a brazillion pictures of her cat and/or grandchildren. I could go on, but you get my drift. I'm trying to be funny, and probably it's inappropriate, but if I don't laugh, I'll cry about the stupidity of this tragedy.

[crikkett]

54. how many is a Brazilian?

... the old lady with a brazillion pictures of her cat and/or grandchildren.

I'm joking too.
:)

[malaise]

13. By your logic a religious Fundie with an ipod

singing Abide with me should expect a few bullets. What happened on that aircraft is damn madness. I don't know about you but I actually worked in the airline business when I was young and I remember more than a few occasions when shortly before we closed doors to take off, a passenger would suddenly decide he/she no longer wanted to fly. I don't know who was or was not bipolar, but I sure didn't think any of them deserved to be shot dead over a panic attack.

The bottom line is that more than a few Americans are currently paralyzed with fear to the point of madness. When you calm down think long and hard and remember that the only aircraft that hit buildings in your country were on domestic and not international flights. Air marshals are not the solution.
Edit gr.

[unblock]

15. and of course there were no bombs on any planes on 9/11

they were armed only with box cutters.

personally, i use my car keys to open boxes, so air marshalls should kill people with car keys or anything else that might be used to open boxes.

what do innocent people need with car keys on a plane for pete's sake?

[malaise]

20. Are you serious

I often have my cars keys on aircraft. I park my car for a two day trip. Where should I leave the keys? Seek help.

[unblock]

22. psst

i might just be being a wee bit sarcastic in this thread.
don't let anyone else in on the secret ;)

[latebloomer]

24. it annoys me to have to use the "sarcasm" smilie

but, time after time, it seems that it's necessary.

[unblock]

25. yeah, but every once in a while....

ok, i'm a bad boy today :evilgrin:

:spank:

[malaise]

32. Phew

you scared the hell out of me:spank: :spank:

[LostinVA]

61. giggle

[SPKrazy]

23. What are you talking about?

You start out with Air Marshalls should be allowed to kill anyone they want

I hope you are :sarcasm: making sarcastic points?

[bloom]

27. I'll keep that in mind.

No Ipods. After all - it's only common sense. Right?

( :) )

[stray cat]

28. Some days DU seems as logical as the freeper sites

and just as hateful, self righteous,rigid, intolerant and dogmatic. Two extremes that eventually meet full circle. What is the problem with rational thought and discourse?

[unblock]

33. and other days du is just plain fun!

:bounce: :party: :bounce:

[Catchawave]

41. Not when a fellow DUer has two dogs in the fight...

Y'know, Special Ed and a FAM? Please try to be more sensitive, I hate DU "FUN" at personal expense *snork*...ya just never know who's toes yer tweakin' here.

But to be fair to the DU "just plain fun" folks, (generic), you just never know if your jokes "bomb" (pun intended). I saw no reference to parody or sarcasm in your original post. It looked stupid serious to me :hi:

[unblock]

42. i figured the bit about singing off key would give up the show

but just to make it obvious:

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Catchawave]

48. Uhmmmm?

You posted:

air marshalls are essentially part our troops on the front lines of the war on terror. and we should support the troops. anyone who disagrees with some of the shooting our troops are doing are traitors. they are trained professionals putting their lives on the line to save us all. they fight terrorists in the jetway so passengers don't have to fight them in the aisles. except when the terrorists actually are in the aisles, in which case they chase them out to the jetway. they also karate chops cell phones out of passengers' hands and force them to lie down. they do this so the innocent can't see what's going on because witnesses only undermine troop morale. they also do this in case any of the other passengers are in on it, they'll be harder to see under the seats because our troops like a challenge.

Unless you're a fan of Imus and his ilk, this was not funny to me.

[kath]

34. and what is the problem with a sarcastic/ironic post??

[unblock]

35. shhhhhhhhhhh!!

it's a secret!!

;)

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

36. Well, people who live with their heads placed in the void between

sphincter muscles don't get it.

[malaise]

37. Well there have been more than a few

threads where people were seriously defending the marshals. I did get caught big time. It doesn't happen often thankfully but that's life.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

44. They hate us for our freedom. nt.

[Algorem]

49. Safeness goes hand in hand with a high body count.

Safeness needs to be reaked,much like it's louder cousin havoc.

[tuckessee]

51. Air Marshalls need to carry ready rucksacks full of

....bags of honey roasted nuts & cute little liquor bottles for the adults and souvenir wings & mini flight bags for the kiddies.

[Terran1212]

55. I have experience with "undercover government people"

I was part of a roleplaying simulation with Homeland Security in Atlanta (my sister works there and got me to be part of it).

They pretty much use ordinary-looking people at covert agents to defend certain critical places (like the capitol, bank buildings, the new Aquarium).

They spend millions on this covert and intrusive surveillance while passing ordinance to boot out the homeless from Atlanta streets.

It's not entirely kosher.

[stickdog]

56. Marshal law is just the price we pay for living in such a free society!

[unblock]

63. marshal law -- good one!

:rofl:

[womanofthehills]

64. Ex prison guards are the air marshals

Today Randi Rhodes went on about how many air marshals are ex prison guards. She said that air marshals who forgot to take their meds are killing passengers who forgot to take their meds

[ArmchairMeme]

67. Learning new compassion for

all air passengers.

For those flyers with disabilities who fly, for those with Bipolar who are seen as a threat to anyone.

What happened to ask a question first? Has there been no healing since the last time?

I fear for those that I know who struggle with life each day and because they struggle they are seen as a threat.

Will those bullies who simply charge to the front of the line now be seen as a threat those around them and be possible targets for shooting?

When do we become human beings again?

[EFerrari]

68. Fly the friendly skies!

:rofl:

[Jim__]

69. That's right! Freedom isn't free.

:eyes:

[long_green]

70. Well, I'm glad you feel safe, I don't

With a bunch of armed psychos on the plane I can't get drunk in peace anymore...you never know if the woman (I think it's a woman) you're pawing after your fourth Dewar's and soda is gonna pull a gun on you. And good luck getting served after that happens! Big Brother, my friend.