Sick of ignorant rednecks

[cdb]

In response to nothing much at all, perhaps just listening to the First Ignoramus's speech yesterday. I am sick of trying to talk to ignorant rednecks about the death penalty, abortion, bush's war, religious displays. I just can't take it anymore.
I am sick of the greedy, anti-intellectual cowboy culture. The culture of me first, the culture of America is always right. The culture of agression. The culture of death and war. I guees I hate america. Thats all. Just venting.

[xchrom]

1. vent away.

[FreedomAngel82]

2. I know how you feel

It's so annoying and like living in another reality.

[cdb]

5. It is another reality,

I can't relate to it... more and more, I am becoming intolerant, impatient, like waiting for them to grow up, or see the light, some fucking thing, just get enough oxygen... i dunno

[Dissent Is Patriotic]

3. I am sick of Bush apologists...n/t

[Felix Mala]

49. Talk about lowered expectations... Bush's most recent "cause" for

war in Iraq hit a new low point. Funny, he didn't mention it in 2002 or 2003. His fan base don't care how many reasons for war he falls back on. Eventually they'll have to rely on "seemed like a neat thing to do." Besides, he only killed 30,000 Iraqis and 2,000 American soldiers to get one bastard.

[zanne]

4. I sometimes wonder if it's worth listening to them

Lately, I just tune them out. No doubt, many of them just tune us out, too. It isn't really about discussion anymore. It's our side and their side and nobody's budging.

[Ganja Ninja]

6. I have a friend who's an ex-paramedic.

He use to tell me that the hardest, most combative people to deal with were always the young white guys between the ages of 18 and 45 because they always seem to think they know everything.

[tx_dem41]

7. Since you desire to shut yourself off of a large portion of the

population because you can't stand them, couldn't you be accused of celebrating your own culture of "me first"?

[GrpCaptMandrake]

9. I would tend to disagree

It sounds to me like the OP has, over time, tried to dialogue, tried to listen. Having done so, and be an apparently rational person, deciding to ignore the irrational fundies and cowboys and deliberately ignorant strikes me as a rational act not of selfishness, but of resignation.

[tx_dem41]

18. Acting as an individual person, I can understand that.

If part of an active political movement, I just don't think you can shut down communication. But, what you say definitely can be understandable to an individual.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

48. From an organizational standpoint

I can wholeheartedly agree with monitoring what the monsters are saying and doing. But they've proven that dialogue is impossible and, from them, undesirable. We've repeatedly extended the olive branch to these bullies, only to draw back a bloody stump.

Personally, I no longer consider a right-wing fundie (or corporatist) republican to be my fellow countryman. They have proven themselves Fifth Columnists bent on the destruction of the Republic. The tax cuts, the squandering of the surplus, the willingness to engage in offensive war, the patriot act, the overall disregard for the Constitution, the disassembly of the social safety net, the attack on Social Security all point to a concerted effort to destroy a segment of this country and a greater segment of the federal government.

[Jamastiene]

66. That's it.

If you run, I'm voting for you.

[demnan]

8. Join the club

My teeth get filed down from all that gritting!

[FormerDittoHead]

10. The result of taking pride in ignorance.

Seriously. They wear their ignorance as a badge of honor. You'll hear it in their expressions.

"Well, all I know is..."
"All I need to know is..."
"The one thing I know is...."
"Those college professors don't know so much"

And of course, (flame away) the Bible and its promoters promote a culture of blind belief while shunning independent / scientific thought.

[porphyrian]

46. Ignorance is forgivable...

...intentional ignorance is stupid and irresponsible.

And while faith in itself doesn't exactly encourage rational thought or intellectual curiosity, I think that it can still be an educated choice. Faith doesn't require ignorance OR proof. Faith is unconditional belief, irrelevant of other factors. Religion can't be proven right or wrong because we lack the means to prove or disprove it. To the rational and scientific mind, this makes it a moot point. However, that doesn't mean that a rational, scientific person can't choose to believe something unconditionally.

The place that religion gets ignorant and stupid is where it attempts to prove rationally and scientifically what it lacks the means to prove or disprove. If you want to believe in something on faith, fine. But don't try to convince the rest of us that your belief is fact until there's some replicable experiment to prove it. Learn the fucking rules if you want to play.

[Jamastiene]

62. A teacher once said something similar.

He said ignorance was curable. Willful ignorance is stupidity. Stupidity is curable too, but we don't do that to people in this country. He meant the only way to cure willfully ignorant people would be to end their existense, but we don't do that.

Re: Btw, what you said in your post------->:thumbsup:

[QC]

11. I'm sick of alleged "progressives" indulging in class hatred

and doing their damnedest to validate Rove's "librul elitist" talking point.

[Greyhound]

17. "librul elitist"? What's wrong with being elite? I am regularly horrified

by the, seemingly, pervasive anti-intellectualism here. There was a time not too long ago when people without an intellect were embarrassed by it. Now it is a badge of honor. What's wrong with wanting and working for a better society, where people are judged by their character, not their financial portfolio? What is wrong with wanting to end the cycle of poverty, crime, and ignorance?

Say it loud, say it proud, "I am a liberal"!

[QC]

19. Nice dodge, but that's not the elitist stereotype we all know and hate.

We all agree that it's a great thing to want to make the world a better place, but engaging in class hatred is another thing entirely, and dressing up snobbery as altruism fools no one. Dismissing people as "rednecks" just makes one sound like the president of the Charleston Junior League, not Bobby Kennedy.

When I hear someone using terms of class hatred, like redneck, white trash, hillbilly, etc., then I know that I am not dealing with a genuine progressive.

[MN ChimpH8R]

21. Perhaps the term "willfully ignorant"

or willfully stupid is a better descriptor. However one describes this group, the majority of them are white, male, and between 18 and 50 without college educations.

And if college professors are so stupid, how did they get to be college professors? You have to demonstrate critical thinking and specialized knowledge to become a professor, two things most of their mouth-breathing critics are unacquainted with.

There are a lot of unrepairable dumbasses out there who, I swear, have to take their pants off to count to 21, and calling them anything other than what they are is avoiding the issue.

[QC]

22. Well, since I am a professor myself, I obviously don't think

that professors are bad. And if I am anti-intellectual, then I certainly wasted all these years I have spent on earning a doctorate.

What I object to is attributing ignorance and anti-intellectualism (along with a host of other sins) mainly or entirely to the working class. After all, the most prominent example of smug, know-nothing anti-intellectualism in this country right now is a fortunate son of the northeastern old money class and graduate of three of the most exclusive schools in the world. He is backed up by a whole crew of similarly aristocratic people who share his contempt for the "reality based community."

Besides, if you will check the demographics, you will find that the only income demographic that Kerry won was people making under $50k a year. Bush swept the more affluent. Similarly, Kerry won among those with a high school education or less, while Bush carried the college-educated crowd, except, of course, for those with advanced degrees. These things are a lot more complicated than the trash-bashers around here would have us believe.

[MN ChimpH8R]

23. Good points

The upper income types vote Repuke out of greed or Jeebusism and there are still a lot of working people out there who understand that their interests are not served by the 'pukes. Based on personal observation (not controlled), there is a huge chunk of voters out there, mostly male, who are in skilled trades or have some college and an office or sales job who are Repuke to the bone. The ones I see tend to be bigoted, belligerently nationalistic 'Murika is number 1 assholes and think that everyone who doesn't agree with them "should have their ass kicked."

Adding this group, who should be Democrats if economic issues were paramount in their minds instead of "wiping out the ragheads" to the Jeebus fanatics, rich greedheads and wannabe greedheads (who think they will get rich via the lottery) and the 'pukes have probably 40% of the electorate. They will NEVER vote for Democrats, any of them, no matter how much they are pandered to by the likes of Joementum and Hillary. When an evil cabal like Chimpco is able to scare another 11% with fears of terra, they can get to 51%, or close enough so that they can steal enough votes to get there.

The demographics of the electorarate are indeed more subtle and complex than can be expressed in a rant, but there are some discernable blocs out there, and the Dems should determine who to write off and focus their efforts on the 10-15% in the middle who are amenable to something like a rational argument.

[melody]

58. Great post

Every single one of Bush's "base" has a degree on the wall and at least one damned expensive car in the garage.

Meanwhile, millions of senior citizens and others on fixed income turned out to work for Kerry. The fortunes of
the poor have always been tied to the Democrats.

If anyone doubts what has been said here, I invite them to go up to Appalachia and find ONE car with a Bush/Cheney
bumpersticker. Then count the Kerry ones, still somehow clinging to the metal.

There is still extreme and desperate poverty among those "horrible" rednecks, unlike any that exists
in any other white community.

[Jamastiene]

63. "have to take their pants off to count to 21"

You made an excellent point. I'm :rofl: at the count to 21 part though.

[Jamastiene]

65. ...end the cycle of poverty, crime, and ignorance?

You are talking my language there. I'm in college right now to put an end to my own ignorance eventually. By doing so, I can possibly "end the cycle" of poverty in my family. I see nothing wrong that that.

I still don't understand why it is considered some elite stance to want to alleviate ignorance. I'm a poor currently being educated southern girl who despises the redneck "taking pride in ignorance" culture just as much as the OP. Certainly, no one can call me an elitist.

[melody]

12. Not all rednecks are ignorant, not all Americans are rednecks

And not all cowboys are anti-intellectual.

To hate America because of 25% of its population is like hating Europe because of (this is just an arbitrary selection here - Great Britain is the land of my ancestors, I love it) the UK.

The US is more like Europe than it is a single country and is far more diverse.

[cdb]

14. I know, generalizations are odius

but i encounter such ignorance, it is hard for me not see groups, yes, classes as homogenous blobs of people who I have trouble finding commonality with. Elitist? yes, I guess so...

[melody]

52. I find mercy in the fact that others see me in such "blobs" too

They hear my twang, sense my heritage, and assume lots of stuff -- all of it wrong.

[RB TexLa]

15. Beat me to the post

I speak with a bit of a drawl moreso when I have been around my brother, less when I have been in Brooklyn for a couple of weeks.

It's easy to use stereotypes and I really don't get mad at the sentiments of the OP, I understand. But I have had just as many discussions with people in suits and ties and no accents with the same attitudes.

My fiancee who is a bit more to the left of me did this as well the other day, it was pretty comical. We have a DU sticker on the car and it gets some looks in North Dallas, some good some not so good. The other day a truck pulled up to our right at the red light and honked the horn. We both looked over and it was a big Ford F-250 truck, inside was right out of B*sh's dreams was the cowboy he thinks he is when he goes down to that ranch. Cowboy hat, handlebar mustache, western shirt. As we both looked my fiancee saw him and said turn don't look, it's the DU sticker, oh no. I just waved and told her so what if it is, big deal. When we turned left and he went straight he waved again, we both waved and then saw the three bumper stickers he had on his truck: "Kerry/Edwards," "Cowboys make better lovers," and a faded "Ann Richardson for Governor."



edited to say I don't get mad at the OP at all :hug:

[Tom Bombadil]

16. You didn't mean that the US is

more diverse than Europe did you?

[under_snow_in_NY]

28. I've never been to Europe myself

but have been around this country and I feel that this place on earth happens to be pretty diverse. Just because you don't agree with the current admin, and rightfully you probably shouldn't doesn't mean this country is any less diverse than anywhere else?

[melody]

51. No, I meant that we're more diverse than merely one nation n/t

[Jamastiene]

67. I don't think the OP was saying they really hated America.

It may be better to let the OP tell you that, but my point is if you disagree with Bush & Co. you will be told you hate America. That's how I read the OP anyhow.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

13. Go ahead and rant . . .

. . . these are upsetting times for thinking people. Get it off your chest. Then watch some Mel Brooks.

[nancyr]

20. Sick of Ignorant Rednecks

I'm with you...I'm sick to death of them all, too.

[info being]

24. It isn't just America

The world is a place full of more ignorant, petty people than enlightened. Sometimes you are wasting your breath and it is ok not to try to convince them of anything. You can't make up for where the educational system has failed them.

[The Whiskey Priest]

25. John Fitzgerald Kennedy looked at the people of Appalachia

…and cried for their poverty. Mother Jones, the greatest activist in American history came from redneck stock.

All that given; isn’t it one of our objectives to make life better for all, specifically those at the bottom, those without the soft edges of culture.

In my way of thinking you cannot reach out without sympathy and understanding to those that are on the bottom and face it that means those living in poor rural communities, those living in trailer parks, those who listen to country music, those who attend a snake-handling church….in short the rednecks.

My empathy allows me to see that they are hard-wired into their culture and they are proud of that culture, in part because they do not have the luxury of choosing any other way of life.

[QC]

26. Bravo!

How easily we forget that there was a time when our party proudly embraced the rural poor. As you say, Eugene Debs and Mother Jones came from that class. The people who died at Matewan and Ludlow and so many other places were what many here would describe as rednecks. When Bobby Kennedy went to West Virginia he did not denounce the poor people he met there as trash--he wept for their suffering.

I don't think it is a coincidence that we were the ruling party when we embraced the poor and became weak when we abandoned them.

[distantearlywarning]

27. The people I know from rural West Virginia

would not appreciate pity from a Democrat with a Ph.D.

On Edit: They'd also be the first people to help haul you and your university friends away to the "re-education" camp when Bush called for it. Good luck with that "embrace" thing. I don't think that the rural poor today are the same rural poor that the Democratic party had so much luck with years ago.

[under_snow_in_NY]

30. most people on the lower end of societys scale probably

wouldn't want pity from any person who more than liekly lived a much more priviledged life than themselves, because usually even with the greatest of intentions you can't understand thier plight.

[QC]

31. Blue-collar kid here. First in the family to go to college.

I now make my living teaching other people from backgrounds like mine and I certainly don't live in a neighborhood full of millionaires.

Besides, who said anything about pity? Compassion and respect are very different things. You should consider trying them out.

[under_snow_in_NY]

35. the pity part...

was in respose to "warnings" post. If you live a life in an area that is severely depressed those who seem to be more well off than you regardless of it's what society considers rich won't listen to somebody they consider to be more priviledged than them. It certainly doesn't help when some here love to throw the redneck/racist/republican blanket over any caucasion who happens to be in a tough situation in life. That does happen here, and if it happens here than it carrier over into "real-life" I'm sure. I wasn't necessarily speaking to you personally, though I didn't read all of your previous posts on this topic

[QC]

39. I wasn't responding to you.

I agree with you, in fact. I was responding to the person who posted, in a related thread:

If you want to embrace people like the God Warrior lady
you go right ahead. Nobody's stopping you.

As for me, I like being urban, smug, self-righteous, and over-educated, and I've seen enough rural ignorance to last me the rest of my life, and I could give a flying fuck what Joe NASCAR or you or anybody else thinks about my attitude on the subject. That's right, I'm an unapologetic elitist in YOUR Democratic Party. And you can't do a damn thing about it. Hope it pisses you off all day. Have a nice afternoon.

[under_snow_in_NY]

42. I see...

I see now, sorry about stepping into the conversation. That is what is exactly wrong, just blind ignorance by another name but because he or she feels that they "care" for the right people that they are better than every other ignorant narrow-minded person

[The Whiskey Priest]

33. They also do not react well to derision.

They are not ashamed of their culture…they do not see any other way. As for any animosity towards someone with a PhD…IMO that is a little condescending in writing them off as being totally anti-intellectual, just too broad a brush.

[The Whiskey Priest]

29. This is anti-redneck bias is a continuation

...of the divide that occurred during the 60s from the animosity between the anti-war movement and blue collar workers.

IMHO it must be healed before we can build a progressive and forward political movement.

[QC]

32. Good point.

I despair of that divide ever being healed, though, when I consider so much of what I see written here and hear from quite a few of my fellow "progressives." The Teeny Tiny Tent Democrats aren't interested in building a broad movement, unfortunately.

[under_snow_in_NY]

38. I read some of your posts and think we agree on this topic

pretty much

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. Well, said, but you don't need to embrace or praise their "culture".

My father was an "Okie" transplant from Arkansas who fled poverty to California in the '30s. He found work as dockworker and joined the ILWU. He read, he educted himself. He became a union organizer and socialist. He struggled with his built in racism instilled by the "culture" he grew up in. He wasn't "proud" of the ignorance and narrow mindedness that he grew up in and fought to change it not accept it.

Ignorance may be bliss for the ignorant, but it takes a heavy toll on the rest of the world.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Ignorance is a "Traditional American Value" held in esteem.

And, rednecks, are just misunderstood good ol' boys who like racecars, guns, 'fedrut flags, and the bahble.

[under_snow_in_NY]

37. case in point here in this post above QC

I think maybe it is, I'm really not sure what is being said with this post above.

[mr_hat]

36. You need a tangible cause. Support trans fats!

[Jara sang]

41. Bush supporters are anti-American and they are not patriots.

[under_snow_in_NY]

43. many of his supporters......

have the same hard-headed approach as that, and say that those that support anyone but him are anti-American, and then you go back to square one. "You are, no, You are" no progress, just a little self satisfying garbage that makes the particapants feel better about themselves

[under_snow_in_NY]

44. that must have been a drive by post I guess

[sakabatou]

45. Aren't we all?

[Lorien]

47. I knew you'd get heat for your headline, but the "ignorant rednecks"

you've described aren't a class, they're a mindset. The proudly ignorant, anti-intellectual, narrow minded hate and fear filled segment of our society that make up the base of the GOP. I've known very rich ignorant rednecks. One, a woman named Pam, had a wealthy husband-yet she hated the well educated, calling intellectuals "the dumbest people on earth". Anyone who read anything more than People magazine was suspect to her. She wore her blue collar roots as a badge of honor, and sneered with disdain at anyone who sought higher education. And yes, she is a republican. I've also known people who grew up in trailer parks and spent their childhoods in public libraries, because ignorance was NOT an aspiration of theirs. They craved knowledge and understanding, and found ways of attaining it. They wanted to contribute to the world-and they became democrats.

I'm sick and tired of the culture of the proudly ignorant, isolationist, and greedy too.

[kineneb]

61. hear, hear! The Know-Nothings ride again!

There is a strong streak of anti-intellectualism in American history, and I think these are the "rednecks" with whom the OP is annoyed. And it is A Mindset. I call them "knuckle-draggers," because they seem to be closer to the primitive ancestors of humanity. They consciously choose to be ignorant and mean.

My ancestors were farmers, but they all valued learning, even if they did not go to college. My grandfather only graduated from high school, but he loved Shakespeare and Kipling. He was also a union organizer and a staunch Dem to the day he died. My grandparents stressed life-long learning, rather than just accepting media BS.

(See, I are edumakayted, I can done use that there passive.)

[Lorien]

69. Your grandparents sound exactly like my grandparents

mine were Mennonite farmers/ blue collar workers in Ohio. They had four children and were determined that all of them would break family tradition and have college degrees. All did, and two became doctors. My mother graduated at the top of her class and instilled the same dedication to learning in my sister and I. We could have just as easily ended up working as waitresses or retail employees today had it not been for my Grandparents focus on higher education. They, too, were also lifelong Democrats.

[Jamastiene]

64. I agree with what you are saying.

How the OP got turned around into a class warfare conversation, I don't know. I happen to be a poor person from the south. I am not a redneck. I was not offended by the OP at all. I agree with the OP, actually. I am in college now, because I want out of the poverty striken ignorant bunch that surround me in this red state. And they really are so proud of their ignorance, too. Lately, I have been seeing tons of "proud redneck" talk on DU. I have even seen threads partially deleted because someone dared to point out the other side of the issue. It's like the twilight zone.

[stop the bleeding]

50. "ignorant rednecks" - redundant - redneck means ignorant

ignorant rednecks

[The Flaming Red Head]

53. Me too.

I just try to ignore them when possible.

[Tsiyu]

54. Gee. Most of the rednecks I know HATE Bush

And if you look at the stats, the "poor and ignorant" voted for Kerry last go round. It was the "rich and ignorant" who voted for **

So, maybe you need to get out more.

[Xenotime]

55. I'm with you...

this whole thing about patriotism and liberty sickens me yet they tear apart the very fabric of the law. They persue oil at the cost of lives of our young people. They sanction state murders. They torture the innocent, they are a disgrace to the parties they represent. They butcher animals for their so called science and don't forget how gun happy this rotten piece of soil has become too.

[sweetheart]

56. ignorant rednecks

Who can't have civil argument, always looking to abuse somebody.
It is the largest scourge of the planet, ignorant rednecks, as
much as we DU percieve the world civil, lurking in every remote
valley another balkan nightmare.

[Bridget Burke]

57. Frist is not a redneck.

He's an educated Southern gentleman. Much like the traitors who started a war to save slavery & convinced the poor whites to fight their battle.

Quite a few DU'ers have come out for the Death Penalty recently. I'm sure they don't consider themselves ignorant rednecks.

[No Exit]

60. What did you say about cats??

I think you may have misread the first post. The poster said "First", not "Frist".

You're right, though--Frist is not an ignorant redneck. He's a carpetbagger/robber baron type. Ain't no planter in him.

[No Exit]

59. Just one little ray of sunshine for ya:

Next time you hear a cowboy-clad idiot expounding on the virtues of Braindead Junior, just say, "Hey, I really like your hat! I love the Old West! Hey, did you see that great movie about cowboys, "Brokeback Mountain"?

Bet they won't know what the movie's about. (Contrary to popular belief, not all ignorant dumbshit rednecks read freerepublic.) Don't tell them anything other than that it's a "good movie about cowboys". Then they'll go see it and... unless THEY are hiding something that they'd rather die than have their red-state friends find out about, they will never be able to look at their cowboy hat and chaps the same way again.

[Jamastiene]

68. Here is some comic relief for you if you are referring to those

I think you are referring to...

http://www.fuckthesouth.com/