Did Clinton spy on US citizens?

[Dufaeth]

I've been looking at the Aldrich Ames story, and it looks like Clinton did spy on a citizen without a warrant at least once, as far as I can tell. Is this the case or is this more spin?


edit:
To clarify I don't care one way or another whether he did or not in relation to Bush. Bush should be impeached for his crimes regardless of the actions of past Presidents. It would however be nice to be able to shut down freeper types if the Clinton story is not true.

[billybob537]

1. only Monica.

[Greybnk48]

2. After Ken Starr and his cronies got done with the Clinton's

if either one of them took a dump and forgot to wipe, you'd already know about it.

[yellowcanine]

3. You have to have a citation if you are going to make a claim like that.

Citation? And be advised that Drudge, Newsmax, and the Moonie Times (including Insight Magazine) don't count.

[Dufaeth]

6. All i can find are second hand references.

hence my question

[papau]

4. The Ames story is of a physical search for security reasons and at the

time (one search in summer 93, and another in the fall 93)physical searches were not covered by FISA.

Clinton saw this loophole and supported an amendment to FISA that would close the loophole. That was passed and Clinton signed the amendment in 94.

[Dufaeth]

8. Did the physical search happen before the amendment passed?

[papau]

14. The search was in 93, the bill was passed in 94. :-)

:-)

[seabeyond]

11. thank you for making so clear. i have read document a couple

times and truth be told. nothing retained.

this is much easier to say to someone. husband came to bed last night, (we live red) and i told him, if you heard clinton did the same thing as bush he did not. there is a little truth and hugh!!! in missing information to the story. but i couldnt tell him specifically. i dont like that. i said trust me. i dont like that either

and those above, i would rather do research with knowledge that our people dont fuck up and are not corrupt like the repugs. if they point the finger there is probably tons left out that changes the story. instead of a flip answer, i would rather have the facts. as in pelosi and labor. i was jumped on, because i am sure there is more to the story adn i want it. then when talking about this stuff, i am informed. that is a good thing

[Dufaeth]

17. So physical searches were legal until the amendment closed the

loophole?

[papau]

21. National Security physical searches were not covered by FISA until 94.

Until 94 Warrantless National Security physical searches were at least gray - and claimed to be OK by many legal minds. I think they were at least not what was intended by the founding fathers - and i was glad when Clinton took it out of gray and into FISA LEGAL AND ILLEGAL.

[Cassandra]

5. Only when a warrant was not required at the time.

And he worked to change the law so that warrants were required in those cases. Clinton stayed within the law!

[stanwyck]

7. Ah. The "look over here"

Clinton shell game. Let's not focus on Bush ignoring our Constitution. Let's start doing the "Clinton did it" dance. Without specifics. You tell us. Give us all the facts with links on your Clinton assertion. You know, back up your post. Otherwise, you're just being a talk-radio host who spouts nonsense for dim witted people who refuse to read or analyze.
Did Clinton spy on US citizens? You tell us. Specifically. With rational links. (not crazy.com).
Unless you'd rather spend your time on baseless gossip while our country is being systematically dissembled.
Shouldn't your concern be our current president? You know, the one who took us to war based on lies?
I question your priorities right now.

[Dufaeth]

10. Sorry,

I'm constantly arguing with my Uncle, and I said it didn't matter what happened in the past, because Bush is violating the law and should be impeached. I just want to know it this claim is authentic or spin. Maybe I should have couched my initial post more cautiously.

[seabeyond]

15. it doesnt hurt to be informed. further, it is a good thing

and a post i just entered to the person who made the explanation of what clinton did was reward, because youa sked. thank you

[stanwyck]

18. I apologize

your question is legitimate. I have a tendency to react too quickly to posts believing DU has been invaded by those who don't sincerely want to know, as you do, the background. But are only here to disrupt and to divert attention away from Bush.
My mistake.
I have been calling out the Bush apologists lately by asking them to back up their claims. They never can. They just make baseless statements without facts.
However, your question does go to the heart of this extremely critical matter of a president spying on U.S. citizens.
Again, I apologize, Dufaeth.

[Dufaeth]

19. I appreciate it

I understand how you came to that conclusion though. Looking at my initial post I do see how it could be construed that way.

[abluelady]

24. And As I Always Said to My Kids

Two wrongs don't make a right. You can always throw that at them.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

12. Its worth asking the question so it can be answered

The truth is that there is no evidence that Clinton did any of these shenanigans. Certainly if he did, Starr and his cronys would have uncovered it.

So let the opposition ask the question: "Did Clinton Spy on American Citizens".

The answer is NO. Now, lets ask the same of Bush and compare answers.

[expatriot]

9. Bush's spying is unwarranted and warrantless.

IMHO... the actual act of "spying" is not so bad in and of itself: you can say that cops are spying on US citizens all the time when they do a stake out but it is assumed that if there are wiretaps, searches, etc. that there are the proper court proceedings, also it assumes that the police actions is warranted with probable cause, etc. Bush has breeched both assumptions with his electronic eavesdropping without a warrant and his spying on domestic activist groups wholly unassociated with Islamic fundamtentalist terrorism.

[Walt Starr]

13. No, he didn't n/t

[shifting_sands]

16. Clinton spied

I don't care if Clinton did spy on us, I don't care if every president has done this since Washington, the fact is it's illegal. Presidents had affairs in the WH too but it wasn't until Clinton came that they decided it was unacceptable and against the law (it's the lying, remember that bs)How many parents out there have heard the excuse "well Billy did it too" Frankly, I don't care, it's Georgie facing us right now and he violated the law in a big big big way, and a treasonous manner. How many times does he do this. Who cares what Clinton did (by the way so did Nixon and he was pushed out)We've got to stop attacking Clinton or apologizing for him, George Bush is the President now and he must be held accountable.

[Blue_Roses]

20. no, he didn't need to

Clinton actually worked while he was President and took an interest in our country

[pocket]

22. his AAG says yes

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0512210142dec21,0,3553632.story?coll=chi-newsopinioncommentary-hed

QUOTE:

President Bush's post- Sept. 11, 2001, authorization to the National Security Agency to carry out electronic surveillance into private phone calls and e-mails is consistent with court decisions and with the positions of the Justice Department under prior presidents.
In the Supreme Court's 1972 Keith decision holding that the president does not have inherent authority to order wiretapping without warrants to combat domestic threats, the court said explicitly that it was not questioning the president's authority to take such action in response to threats from abroad.

Four federal courts of appeal subsequently faced the issue squarely and held that the president has inherent authority to authorize wiretapping for foreign intelligence purposes without judicial warrant. In the most recent judicial statement on the issue, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review, composed of three federal appellate court judges, said in 2002 that "All the ... courts to have decided the issue held that the president did have inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence ... We take for granted that the president does have that authority."

Every president since FISA's passage has asserted that he retained inherent power to go beyond the act's terms. Under President Clinton, deputy Atty. Gen. Jamie Gorelick testified that "the Department of Justice believes, and the case law supports, that the president has inherent authority to conduct warrantless physical searches for foreign intelligence purposes."

We cannot eliminate the need for extraordinary action in the kind of unforeseen circumstances presented by Sept. 11. I do not believe the Constitution allows Congress to take away from the president the inherent authority to act in response to a foreign attack. That inherent power is reason to be careful about who we elect as president, but it is authority we have needed in the past and, in the light of history, could well need again.

[CabalPowered]

23. I just saw this on the yahoo boards..

.....<<"WASH POST, July 15, 1994: Extend not only to searches of the homes of U.S. citizens but also -- in the delicate words of a Justice Department official -- to "places where you wouldn't find or would be unlikely to find information involving a U.S. citizen... would allow the government to use classified electronic surveillance techniques, such as infrared sensors to observe people inside their homes, without a court order."

Deputy Attorney General Jamie S. Gorelick, the Clinton administration believes the president "has inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches for foreign intelligence purposes.">>

Anyone have LexisNexis handy? I'd like to see the context of this passage. TIA

[kentuck]

25. I doubt it....

but if he did, I would bet he went thru the FISA court later...

[Norquist Nemesis]

26. If he did, he got away with it

Bush, on the other hand, has been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

[Scout1071]

27. Think Progress totally debunks it here:

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/20/drudge-fact-check/

[CabalPowered]

28. thanks! nt