Consequences for the nation if Bush is not impeached

[Don Claybrook]

If we end up with a situation in which Bush is not impeached, or at least censured by the congress, where does that leave us?

It leaves us with an Executive that says he knowingly violated laws and the Constitution of the United States, and that he intends to keep doing this. It leaves us with an Executive who is completely above the law. He has, after all, admitted this crime. What’s to stop him from breaking any law, anytime he pleases? If his weak and useless justifications are allowed to stand, these same weak justifications can be used to ignore any law he wishes to ignore. How about that two-term limit Amendment? Sorry, not in a time of war when national security is at stake. You don’t switch horses halfway through the race, etc.

If Bush is not impeached and made to stand trial, this will very likely mean that the Republicans in Congress have completely abdicated their roles and given most of the power of the Legislative branch to the Executive. They will have raped the Constitution while weakening their own positions. And they know this to be true.

I would like to think that if I were a Republican, even a Bush fan, I’d be ready for impeachment if only to save the nation from destruction at the hands of a few. I would like to think that if Bill Clinton had done something like this, I’d have called for his impeachment.

If Bush gets off on this one, the implications are far greater than a handful of thugs getting by with a crime. We will have given up the whole notion of checks and balances, and we will have sealed our eventual fate, I think.

Does the non-neocon wing of the GOP understand this? Are they speaking of it quietly amongst themselves? Bush himself, by admitting his crime, has set this up as an all-or-nothing shot. After all, you can’t make a resolution stating, “the president will hereafter abide by all laws”, when he’s already said that he doesn’t have to stay within the law. Removal from office or dictatorship—can anyone see middle-ground between these two extremes?

This goes way beyond my longstanding desire to see the fraud removed from office. It seems imperative now. I'd like to hear your thoughts along these lines.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. The consequences of him being in office may far outweigh the

ones that are yet to be experienced.

[savemefromdumbya]

8. this is true the chimp is probably less dangerous than the 'nazis'

I don't call them neocons anymore.

As long as cheney and the shadow lot are not locked up behind bars there there will be trouble

[ananda]

2. America would be like Deadwood..

The rule of law... gone.

The Constitution... gone.

Corporate mob mentality... here.

Slavery, serfdom, and exploitation... here.

Independent thinking and education... gone.

Stepfordist conformity... here.

[madaboutharry]

3. Will see how this unfolds in the weeks to come

I think that a list of some of the people subject to surveillance is going to get leaked. Once David Gregory reads some of the names on that list, republicans may have no choice but to go along with the impeachment of both Bush and Cheney. I have to think that there are going to be names on that list that will shock the nation. It will become clear that the administration abused power and broke the law for political purposes.

[Stevendsmith]

7. I like the way you think. (n/t)

[hwmnbn]

15. If there is no FISA paperwork.......

where would this list come from? This was done in secret by the NSA. Unless we have an inside guy ready to come clean, how will we ever know who was spied upon?

I'm really hoping this list is revealed, but I have my doubts. We haven't even seen the rest of the Abu Ghraib photos and we know they exist.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

18. Given that they would out Plame for vengence, I agree

I'm sure they spied for political reasons. It would be like a skunk spraying Chanel #5 if they didn't.

[MrModerate]

4. They'll preserve the illusion of legality . . .

By whatever poppycock Gonzales comes up with. They'll pound the lies about "Carter and Clinton did it" until they become conventional wisdom. They'll say "he was just protecting the nation" -- and the nation will let him slide.

Not to disagree with you that this is dire, but I do believe they'll maintain that no laws were broken -- and make it stick, at least in a legalistic sense.

Consequences? All bets are off for all future presidents. Congress is spavined, the courts are stacked, and the media is completely owned by the ruling class. It's a dark road to hell.

But . . . Bush WILL leave office in January 2009.

[MercutioATC]

5. Your logic is flawed:

"It leaves us with an Executive that says he knowingly violated laws and the Constitution of the United States"

Bush says no such thing. He believes that the monitoring was within the scope of his powers as Commander-in-Chief and the matter is still under debate.

[savemefromdumbya]

11. 'He' believes?

he was given false info that it was within his scope of powers.

[Don Claybrook]

12. toward more precise language

You're right, thanks for the correction. It would be more appropriate to say that Bush, through the good offices of Alberto the Pyramid, will cling to his lame legal defense, all the while knowing he was breaking the law. And yeah, I don't see any way around that--Bush knows he was breaking the law. But you're right--they'll stay with that defense until the bitter end. But will the collective "we" allow that defense, knowing that this sort of rationale, if allowed, can be transferred and adapted to any law that needs breaking?

[tlsmith1963]

6. Good Points

And if Clinton did these things, I would impeach him, too. What Clinton did didn't threaten the whole country. What Bush is doing does. But I guess this is what differentiates Democrats from Republicans. If someone in my party does something seriously wrong, I want them gone. If a Republican does it, they make excuses & protect them. Sad, isn't it? We are in deep shit because Republicans have too much pride & can't get rid of one of their own.

Tammy

[C_U_L8R]

9. The Republicans cannot afford to set the precedent

that the executive branch is the supreme power of the country.
If they do.. congress and the judiciary may as well go home.

And woe to all Republicans once the Dems seize back the reins of power.
(hey freeps... use your imagination... we're pissed and we want payback...
go ahead and hand us that unlimited power.. bwhahahhahhahaa...
whatever you fear... it's gonna be worse... for you)

Oh I feel sadistic today !

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. I think you are correct

If Bush's power is unchecked, he will continue to break the law-and break more and more laws. Right now, the repukes in Congress think that he will allow them to keep their power and perks - but let them try and defy him at their peril. Our only hope is that enough wake up in time to realize that the noose is around their necks if they don't do something, and soon.

Do you think if Bush declared martial law the troops would fire on peaceful demonstrators or would they remember their oath to the Constitution?

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. I hope they will remember their oath

my personal image is of Russian troops, tankers no less, in Moscow not obbeying orders in the last days of the USSR... that is my image and that may be as well the end of the Aemrican Republic.. but the end of the physcial country we know as the US. We have two major competing visions of the country, and I fear the country will split. I also hope this is peaceful, but I fear our cold civil war will go hot.

[lpbk2713]

13. We may be able to salvage the economy if we impeach now.

But our grandkids will still be paying off the BushCo debts when they are old and grey.

[fooj]

14. I couldn't have said it better myself.

If Bush gets off on this one, the implications are far greater than a handful of thugs getting by with a crime. We will have given up the whole notion of checks and balances, and we will have sealed our eventual fate, I think.

Peace.

[many a good man]

17. Is this the NeoCons "exit strategy" for bush*?

He's now gone from "useful idiot" to "useless" idiot. Moving to impeach bush* will make the right look selfless and patriotic. They may think they can win back the alienated conservative middle and maintain power.

[Gregorian]

19. People must remember that it's not Bush. It's not the Republicans.

It's the voters.

Trust me, I'm as pessimistic as they come. I see an image of bush having appointed as many people as humanly possible while he's been in the White House. I find that more disturbing than many things.

But, we had good years after Nixon. We had good years after Reagan. There are young people who are seeing this period, and making up their minds.

But ultimately it is the voters. And they didn't let us down in so much as we won the elections. Just not as though they were an educated mass.

We can't go much further down from where we are, and still call it America.

It's the people. Why do we on DU know what's going on? The information is out there. I don't watch televised news.

There is hope. As shitty as it has been. As many friends as we have all lost to the assinine conservative mindset, there is hope.

And the worst part of it is that it works so very slowly. May the people wake from their stupor.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

21. The immediate danger is from Bush and the Republicans

I understand that is is about the voters. They are deceived and scared .

If we get an Equal Time rule back into broadcasting and and add it to cable, we have a lot better chance of surviving as a democracy.

As it stands now, broadcast media is mostly propaganda and cable is worse.

The shining light through it all is the internet.

[Gregorian]

23. I'm farsighted.

Schools instead of ammunition. The Fairness Doctrine.
Yes, at this moment they are reaping what they have been plotting for decades.

It won't work. And as tasteless as this is, I seriously doubt they'll get much further.

Dark days.

[toymachines]

20. If they get off on this one, our collective fears have been affirmed

It is as bad as the cynical amongst us expected.

[kenny blankenship]

22. Exactly, they see this not just as a vulnerability, as we may think,

in which their characteristically fascist way of doing things outside the law is dangerously exposed to scrutiny--a negative.
This revelation is also, because they choose to view it this way, an OPPORTUNITY, a positive.

If they can bluff their way through this one, if they can get Democrats to fold altogether or abort their challenge after raising it, then the Republican Police State becomes an accomplished fact and the dream of "permanent Republican control of all branches of government" will be realized. Nothing will budge them from the levers of power but an equal and opposite force.

[tavalon]

24. I would have screamed for his impeachment

Before this bastard took office, I voted for people based on their platform, not their affiliation. Now, I wouldn't vote for a Republican if they said everything right. I'm not sure I ever will again.