Okay, I'll say it: SADDAM'S SON'S 86'd IS COMPLETE HORSE PUCKEY!

[CaptainMidnight]

Gang,

Two words.

"OH, PLEEEEEZ!"

I'm sorry, but this whole story, the timing, and the "positive effect it is having on US troops and the US economy" just reeks of utter horse shit!

Both of Saddam's sons. Who despised each other. Hiding out together. Still in Iraq. Only one bodyguard each. 200 US soldiers engage in a four-hour gun battle with four adults and a teenager. Gang, this story has as much believability to it as a 19-year-old female supply clerk from West Virginia, who'd never even carried a weapon, who engaged in an intense shoot-out with scores of Iraqi soldiers, "emptying her weapon," "suffering up to ten gunshot wounds," "being stabbed in the legs," "the only survivor of her platoon." and then being rescued in a "daring Blackhawk Down-like precision rescue mission."

Jesus, this one just STINKS!

Remember WHEN the PHONY Lynch story happened? Right when the "war" got bogged down, and casualties were mounting, and Americans started criticizing the invasion, right when Rumsfeld was taking heat for not sending in the troops, the Pentagon fabricated "Saving Private Lynch," and we all were sufficiently heart-warmed, and distracted from all the other bad shit. EXACTLY when Bush needed it, we had this story served up to us, chunky style.

At least with the " Saddam's Sons 86'd" story, we don't have to worry about a pesky "heroic" American soldier and her pesky parents contradicting the official version of events. No amnesia for these guys; they're DEAD!

Again, look at how once again, a positive story that benefits Bush comes just at the exact time when he needed one. NO WMD's found. No chemical or biological weapons found. CIA contradicting the President. Even Republicans were calling for an investigation. Some Democrats and newspaper editors were uttering the word, "Impeachment." US soldiers dying daily. US soldiers speaking out to the media that they'd like to see Rumsfeld resign. US soldiers committing suicide. More and more stories being printed about troop morale at it's lowest point. Vietnam-like "quagmire." NO GOOD NEWS AT ALL!

Then Tah-dah! PERFECT TIMING! "We got Saddams SONS!" "woo hoo!" Yet another distraction and heartwarming story right when Bush needed one.

Gang, I can't honestly offer up evidence to the contrary, to PROVE that it's horse shit, but sometimes, much like 9-11 and the NO WMD's, you don't need to look at the evidence contradicting the "official story"so much as you need to look at the evidence that is BOLSTERING the official story. Just look at how suspect it is, the timing of such story, and ridiculous scenarios they're offering up as to the truth.

* 200 US soldiers engage in a four-hour gun battle with four adults and a teenager.

* The most wanted men in Iraq hanging out in their cousin's house, like they'd be confident thinking that the US forces wouldn't be monitoring that house and looking for them THERE? Maybe cuz reception's just lousy in Syria, and their cousin's TV got both ESPN1 and ESPN2!

* First reports said bodies burned beyond recognition.

* "The soldiers removed four bodies and did not let photographers take pictures."

* "Identifying marks included Odai's scars from a 1996 assassination attempt, a senior defense official said, SPEAKING ON CONDITION OF ANONYMITY.

Reports said it'll take DAYS to test the DNA to see. Do they have Uday's and whats-his-name's DNA on file with the FBI? Okay, let's say they do. Bodies burned beyond recognition seems to me to be about as conveeeeeeeeeeenient as a 19-year-old phony hero with "amnesia."

But wait! Saddam's secretary steps forward and makes a positive ID on two pieces of burnt human toast! Just like that! No waiting days for DNA! Kinda like identifying Osama bin Laden and the names of all 19 hijackers within 2 hours of the 9-11 attacks, even though NONE of their names were listed on the passenger lists released by the airlines. 7 of the hijackers have been proven to be still ALIVE, and there exists NO airport videos of ANY of them getting on the planes. Kinda like they found Mohammed Atta's passport in the WTC rubble (guess he threw it out the window right before the impact). But I digress...

And again, look at all the hype and spin the story is getting. IT's doing it's JOB:

• It pushed the WMD'S LIES off the headlines, and the murder, uh..."suicide" of that British Deep Throat, Dr. Kelly.

• It allowed the White House to finally admit blame today for the Nigerian "yellowcake" lie. (betcha missed that story, didn'tcha?)

• It has "raised troop morale" right when it was needed. Death of Saddam's Sons Boosts U.S. Forces http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030723/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq&cid=540&ncid=716

• Already we had Treasury Secretary Snow on TV proclaiming that it's good for the economy! "Well, I think anything that removes uncertainty about the course of progress in Iraq is positive, and that certainly removes some uncertainty," the US economic chief said. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030722/ts_afp/us_economy_iraq_snow&cid=1503&ncid=1478

• Believe it or not, now that the Private Lynch story has become a liability rather than an asset, TODAY was the day she was coming home and delivering a statement, though she wasn't allowed to take questions. Bush needed something to upstage the "little hero," in case she suddenly recovered her memory during her prepared statement and blurted out something anti-Bush. (I noticed she didn't "thank" him today) THIS HAPPENED ON THE SAME DAY OF HER FIRST PUBLIC STATEMENT? WHAT A COINCKY-DINK!

• The Official 9-11 Commission Report is supposed to come out tomorrow; this'll help bury that story and any problems it may cause for Bush (not as much as you would think; watch The Captain's List for more on this 9-11 "Warren Report" phony baloney)

• It's already allowing the right-wing television screech monkeys like Rush and O'Reilly to fire back at the "liberals" who have been "supporting Saddam" by holding Bush accountable for his WMD'S LIES

Remember Saddam and his sons had all those "lookalikes" and "doubles," and yet within hours, it's confirmed that WE GOT 'EM?! Why the hell would, a nameless senior defense official be "speaking on condition of anonymity" when this is ostensibly GREAT NEWS? This isn't some bad news leaked to a reporter; it's a positive development, dominating the headlines, and why would he choose to remain nameless, unless he didn't want to be held accountable for what might turn out to be a LIE?

Why the HELL would we think they're telling the truth when they:

LIED ABOUT WMD'S
LIED ABOUT Chemical and Biological Weapons
LIED ABOUT PRIVATE LYNCH
LIED LIKE, THREE OR FOUR TIMES ALREADY ABOUT KILLING SADDAM AND HIS SONS
LIED ABOUT THE REAL REASON FOR THE INVASION
LIED ABOUT PLACING THE OIL REVENUE "IN A TRUST FOR THE IRAQI PEOPLE"
LIED ABOUT USING DEPLETED URANIUM
LIED ABOUT THE LOOTING OF THE MUSEUMS
LIED ABOUT THE US CASUALTIES (and are still lying, it's actually close to 1,000 US Troops Dead)
LIED ABOUT THE COMPLETELY STAGED TOPPLING OF THE SADDAM STATUE
LIED ABOUT "LIBERATING" THE IRAQI PEOPLE
LIED ABOUT ALLOWING IRAQI'S TO GOVERN THEMSELVES
LIED ABOUT HOW LONG OUR TROOPS WILL BE THERE
LIED ABOUT "SADDAM WOULDN'T LET THE INSPECTORS IN!" (uttered by Bush only this past week, right in front of Kofi Annan!)
LIED AND COVERED UP THE FACT THAT THE TOP THREE COMPANIES WHO GOT FAT CONTRACTS TO REBUILD IRAQ ARE DICK CHENEYS' COMPANY (Haliburton), THE BUSH FAMILY'S COMPANY (Carlyle Group), AND THE WHITMAN SAMPLER OF BUSH FAMILY CRONIES AND FORMER CABINET MEMBERS (Bechtel)

Now, all that being said by The Captain, I truly believe that Uday and Qusay could already have been killed, and this is an orchestrated distraction, a bit of late-reported "good news", which was put on reserve, considered an "asset" by Bush's handlers, and kept in a back pocket for the day when Bush needed to be bailed out. The press had started turning on him, and this is a very convenient surprise.

Now that it's "officially" GREAT for the economy, I can't wait to rush out the door and buy that big screen TV I've always wanted, so they can continue to pour this horse shit into my brain in even greater quantities!

GOODY GOODY GUMDROPS FROM THE YUM YUM TREE!

Captain Mike

[MisterP]

1. bravo!

applause!
(do we have a smiley for that?)

[Pastiche423]

16. Not an applause smiley

but it works.



I am beginning to believe that someone (KKKarl) dreams of being a scriptwriter, as in overly dramatic B movie kinda scriptwriting.

[Serial Mom]

81. KKKRove, screen writer,

has at least 2 or 3 different outcomes to each script also.

If the script fits, acquit?

[liberalnurse]

2. This is just a flash in the pan.....

They don't have much left to showboat anyways. They did a double wammy today; Jessica and SH Brothers...Look at it this way, it's done, not much more milage left on it. They may have a harder time with Saddam. AlJazzera will keep us informed.

I think Saddam is in North Korea. Just a guess but North Korea needs money (gold will do) and Oil.....They both hate the US.....Korea has nukes.....Its just speculation but they both are survivors.....People marry for less....

[Maple]

3. Well either they were being kept on ice

or this is complete hokum.

I heard 6 hour fight with Uday, Qusay, one bodyguard and a 14 year old. Then a tank shell had to be used. Whaaaat?

Uday can't walk, and was photographed earlier in a wheelchair. They were supposedly both together (and they hate each other) at a cousins home, and with only one bodyguard.

And Saddam's secretary just happened to be right there?

I heard it was just one bystander.

Assuming they weren't killed earlier and just now trotted out...or dragged....it will be interesting to see what happens if a video from either of them shows up.

[Sperk]

4. Totally agree Captain....makes you wonder what they have

in store for the election. :scared:

[OneBlueSky]

5. the best way to find the truth . . .

is to just assume that it's the opposite of whatever BushCo is saying . . . ergo, Saddam's boys are very likely still living in quiet affluence somewhere in Syria, or Belarus, or wherever . . . this whole story today reeked so bad you had to roll up the pant legs, cause it's too late to save the shoes . . .

[DontBlameMe]

70. Fuck the boots...

save the watch!!!

[Avalon Sparks]

6. Great post!~

You've convinced me it's bullshit.

Thanks for posting this.

[gratuitous]

7. Wait . . . what was the middle part again?

Oh, oh yeah, okay.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, and please, I mean no disrespect whatsoever, but do I detect a hint of skepticism in your post concerning the glorious news of the deaths of Saddam's sons? I mean, the president himself declared how happy he was over the news, and not because he's a bloodthirsty warmonger, so stop saying that.

[JCMach1]

8. Maybe not total pucky-- what if we did know where the boys

were and were covering them for some time with intelligence forces in hopes of getting the BIG FISH...

Now, imagine a WH losing patience and traction... It is simply a matter of pulling the trigger on them.


If it IS true, they were in the crosshairs for some time... BUSH pulled the trigger because he needed the PR and wasn't patient enough to collect intelligence about Saddam...

[TomNickell]

9. So, If the Sons are still alive, do they have Shrub by the Balls?

-IF- the sons are still alive, there is -going- to be a videotape on al Jazeera showing the two of them holding up newspaper announcing their deaths.

How stupid does that make Bush*, and the US military look?

Is there any reason to think 150,000 US troops with a $25 million reward won't finally catch and kill these guys?

Get real.

I agree the hype about major victory, turning a corner, etc is BS. These guys weren't running the guerilla war; they were running for their lives. Sadly, there will be more US soldiers dead tomorrow, and tomorrow and ...

[charlie]

18. No

He didn't say that 150K US troops couldn't catch the Hussein boys. He said that the circumstances surrounding this supposed hit stinks.

I know that nothing attracts you to a thread like a chance to snort and charge "tinfoil", but you're jumping the gun on this one.

[CWebster]

93. So

why didn't they run anywhere?

[madrchsod]

10. i`ll wait till the

overseas newspapers and reporters start digging for the truth..there does seem to be alot of problems with the story..will the rest of the world buy it? ya,and i`m going to get a job now that they are dead? ya right..
i used to have a good job when ******* was president but that`s all changed....

[DFLforever]

17. You're right about skepticism from world press

Look at the quotes around key words from the BBC story


Saddam sons 'dead'
The US military says it is 'certain' its troops have killed Saddam Hussein's sons Uday and Qusay in a raid.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/

[Master Gracey]

11. That's the spirit!!

To pinch a quote from Monty Python...

Bra- vo.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

12. The story reeks of B.S.

All the points you mentioned make me think this is total bull, but if it is, this administration is way more stupid than I ever thought... because the truth is bound to come out, and then how completly lame will they look?

[Proud_Lefty]

13. You hit it right on the head

When I first heard the announcement this morning, I thought, "No loss. So what does this change?." Then the media is going crazy about this major breakthrough, I thought, "How?" By evening, the media confirmed that this takes the pressure off Bush with his SOTU 16 word mess and the lack of WMD, I was screaming, "HOW?"

This is the same nonsense we've been getting since the Florida re-counting attempt. The people that report this crap and even worse, the people that believe it should not be allowed to reproduce.

[JCMach1]

14. It's PR to kill them, they did wait long enough

to get intelligence on SADDAM...

Bush pulled the trigger... WAY TOO SOON!

[Wwagsthedog]

20. Question?

Why did it take over 200 troops together with helicopter gunships and other heavy ammo 4-6 hours to kill 5 guys armed with sidearms ans maybe an odd RPG? Were there ever any efforts made to take them alive? Or were they taken alive and those available dead substituted for Ouday & Qusat? Because I have so little trust in the government or the media anymore, my mind will be spinning all kinds of conpiracy possibilities on this one. The fact is that the killing was probably staged and it was meant to be a distraction. One of the news items I heard in passing on some (CBS?) TV news was that when the informers (who also owned the destroyed villa) advised the military of the brothers location, the military said that the informers information only confirmed what they aready knew. I also read in the Arab News that the villa owner and his son were arrested after the firefight was over???? Were these ploys to avoid giving them the rewards on Ousay's and Qusay's heads? As has been the case with much of the war, we probably ain't seen nothing yet.

[CaptainMidnight]

25. good points

All!

Captain Mike

[JCMach1]

32. Good points all... 200 men doubly makes it a PR/Propaganda stunt

Overkill makes good news pictures (if it bleeds it leads). I am a little skeptical about the 200 figure as well. We had soldiers die in an apparently separate event in Mosul today. We may have been doing a major sweep there-- not just THE BOYS.

[JCMach1]

34. Ack, should have said DIDN't WAIT long enough

to get intelligence on Saddam...

[diamond14]

15. but, saddam's cousin gets the $30 Million reward....it's really

too much to comprehend...it'd take a bush* to be stupid enough to give it to him...

like how stupid it was for bush* to give $43 Million to Osama's Taliban in May 2001, so Osama had the money to do the 09/11/2001 attack...bush* is either a criminal idiot, or criminally complicit...

(link) here's is bush*'s faustian deal with the Taliban...May 2001...four months before the WTC/Pentagon attacks...

http://www.robertscheer.com/1_natcolumn/01_columns/052201.htm

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[noiretextatique]

22. where is your proof?

oh right...we're supposed to take your word for it :hurts:

[Judson39]

21. Good one

Their timing for all this 'good news' is certainly suspect.

PR to the rescue and not one second too soon!

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

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[CaptainMidnight]

24. i can get back to you on that

But,

You obviously being a disrupter and jingoist, you wouldn't take Al Jazeerah's sources as something acceptable, nor any of the Russian websites that have documented the hidden deaths.

If you're truly military, then you know, going back to Vietnam, that body counts have always been hidden or disguised as "helicopter accidents."

You're right to be skeptical, but lots of the deaths include "black ops" and covert ops, and "classified missions" that other soldiers arent' even aware of.

I want to back up what I say, but on the other hand, seeing that you've had a grand total of TWO posts here, you're obviously a disrupter, freeper, or ditto-head.

So it might not be worth my finger strength to 'verify' something to YOU.

Captain Mike

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[noiretextatique]

28. any comments on the rest of his post?

since you single out only that one item? for some reason, i couldn't open your link. at any rate, i don't understand what it has to do with anything...people die every day...i imagine that includes soldiers.

however, i do think this administration has a proven track record of lying, so i don't believe the official death toll.

my comment: i don't buy this, the latest in a long list of lies by this misadministration, either.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

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[noiretextatique]

43. free republic is the place for you

so...why are you here?

[knight_of_the_star]

26. Where's the wheelchair?

Last time I checked, the attempt on Uday also paralyzed him from the waist down or something like that. He needs a wheelchair just to get around. I've seen footage they showed of him on the History Channel attemtping to walk with the help of two bodyguards. They had to carry him whne he was out of his wheelchair. No way in hell he would be fit enough for a gun fight or be anywhere without that thing.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

29. i agree it must be"horse puckey" wouldn't whitefeather bush * be

scared of revenge on his daughters if he did actually killed saddams sons ...didn't bush* say "he tried to kill my daddy" this would give me pause to start killing the children of leaders of countries...it sets a president. No? This is why i don't believe they are actually dead....just some poor slobs used for fodder bodydoubles????...just a thought

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[Rocinante]

33. Mods

take him down please

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[ElsewheresDaughter]

36. "Shheesh" NO i do not "act as if they were 15 y/o kids"

and neither are the bush twins ....as a matter of fact i never mentioned age nor what they did...we have all been told the evils these guys perpertrated.....

[Name removed]

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[wuushew]

44. Are you aware that Iraqi civilians were caught in the crossfire?

There was a price paid in this operation, the picture will become clearer as more reported.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

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[CaptainMidnight]

37. well, there it is...

These disrupters ALWAYS tip their hand sooner than later.

"and BTW the Dems are going to their asses kicked in 04"

And what does that have to do with my original post? Debate is one thing, but it's just to distract and waste our energy that is this guy's goal.

You're not changing any minds, Mr. Military Man. Why don't you go elsewhere where your opinions may mean something.

Congrats, you now have a grand total of FIVE posts; i guess you must feel you've more than doubled your crebibilty here.

now, I'd like the minute and twenty seconds of my life back that I took to respond to your post.

I am done with you, and you can waste your finger breath responding away, but I will ignore you; I advise others to do so, while attempting to uncover the truth...

Captain Mike

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

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[Rocinante]

39. Damn

I got called Pussboy by a freeper. I'm so hurt by that.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

42. gore42004

I :toast: you :7

[noiretextatique]

41. we are here so you can come and enlighten us

you are our only reason for being. we have been waiting for you to show us the the way, and to lead us. question: where should we go, oh wise one...this "somewhere where your posts mean something" that you speak of?

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

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[wuushew]

46. What is this utopia called conservatism?

What are your religion's major tenets and why should I should I join them?

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

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[LibertyorDeath]

57. "southern baptist" you say that like it's something to be proud of....

[noiretextatique]

58. no you haven't, my dear

you absolutely have not taken advantage of education...and it does matter. it colors your views, so to speak. i think you really need to stick around here: it's an opportunity for education and advancement, and since you are seriously misinformed...you really need it.

the problem with conservatives, like yourself, is that you believe your own hype. well let me tell you: you are nothing special, and you need some more education. you are a mental midget who parrots whatever rush tells you without question, yet you think you can come here and "debate" with people who actually can produce an independent thought. here's one: you can't even spell socialism, and i know you have NO IDEA what is means.

and despite whatever rw shockjock du jour tells you about how special you are...you aren't. you are a drone...a member of the hive...assimilated...brainwashed. you are the grist the keep people like bush, a bona fide idiot, in power. you like him because he's just like you...a dumbass who is too stupid to even know how dumb he is. what drives you, like him, is privilege...like the privilege to believe you are educated.

now...if there are so many jobs out here, then why is the unemployment rate so high? why? is it simply because people, except yourself and those who think like you, don't want to work?
that's a mighty tidy answer for you...you don't have to think. you can keep pretending you are special.

i feel sorry for people like you. at some point, when your little self-righteous bubble bursts, you won't have a clue what to do.
there is no way in hell anyone in your situation (poor and ignorant) should claim allegiance with conservatives...:wtf: do you have to conserve...besides your ignorance?

[Name removed]

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[noiretextatique]

62. read my post, son

and stick around...there may be hope for you yet. now i am really going to bed. if you really are in the army, i pray that you remain safe and return to your family unharmed. and we are working to make sure that happens by ousting that buffoon in the white house.
and i bid you good night.

[noiretextatique]

47. yawn

:boring: time for bed...

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

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[nolabels]

49. Sounds like they are going into full time "MAKE UP THE NEWS

I was listening to the radio on the way out to a job this afternoon, Sounded like they were reading some AP wire about Sadams sons being killed with some detail on how it went down. This was like at 4:00 PST, the story went on to say that they already took a DNA test that proved it was them.

Hanging here at DU land earlier it seemed they breaking the story mid mourning that give the 10 to 12 hours in estimation. They are saying they had this elaborate equipment in the field to take the test. Had sample of from prior to compare(on hand)and did this elaborate test, even if they sent the sample out they are talking several hours lag time. This link to this place that does DNA test describes the process. I know very little about them things, but I can read English. This seems an ill conceived bull pucky story to me

http://www.homedna-test.com/test.htm


(snip)
The DNA Test Procedure
Sample Reports What To Expect From Your Test

Procedure
Order the kit which you will receive 2 days later (domestic shipping only). There will be no additional charges or costs.
(snip)

[lynndew2]

56. One of the people there said on PBS

said tonight that they had walked many people who knew them both and Everyone said it was them. He also said DNA was being taken but wasnt gonna be available for a lil while. He said the one that was cripled was easily identified and the faces where very identifiable and both were said to be them by many and not a single doubt was raised. It is them I am sure. And I am glad.

[CaptainMidnight]

50. AAAANNNNDDD NOW: getting back to the subject!

See?

The textbook example of disrupting. A dozen or more posts, not even dealing with the main topic.

Whaddya wanna bet this guy's got toilet paper in his bathroom with jokes printed on them?

Knock, knock jokes.

Anyway, I have a twice-daily email weblog that I send out to about 80 "subscribers." Half of them are skeptics. Of me. Which is good, cuz it encourages debate and and makes me work harder to find the truth. (and one of my subscribers is a famous female actress lefty, who's a bit of an icon here at DU, with the initials, JG)

One of them just replied back to me, most intelligently I thought; I don't think she'll mind that I post it here

Captain Mike

""Like you, I'm taking this news with a grain of salt. I'll tell you why.
 
The bushistas have recently been forced to trot out all of their lame excuses for this war, only to have each and every one shot down in quick succession. And, by last Sunday, only the "Golly, Saddam is a really mean guy" clause of their much ballyhooed Doctrine of Pre-emption was left standing.
 
But they had squandered their credibility. They knew that to pull that rabbit out of the hat would have come off as whiney and defensive. So, how about singing, "Ding Dong, Saddam Is Dead?" Nope. The world would have demanded that his head be impaled on a sharp stick and paraded down Main Street. The standard of proof is far too high to have gotten away with faking his death.
 
Then, what in the world was a warmongering, fascist chimpanzee to do? Well, off the sons, of course! It was perfect! Hardly anyone could say that they knew what Saddam's boys looked like, and even fewer people actually cared.
 
But here's the beauty part: the media are now hard at work, doing exactly what the bushistas needed done but couldn't do for themselves. By telling us scary bedtime stories about Tuesday and Kool-Aid and how they would have inherited their father's kingdom, the war has now been justified. Even though there are no WMDs or African yellowcake and even though no Iraq-al Qaeda connection or 45-minute strike capability ever existed...(insert drum roll here)...Saddam, Jr. I and II are dead. Tada.
 
And the bushistas never had to say a word.
 
Yours in undeniable plausibilty,""

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

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[LibertyorDeath]

59. Don't SHEEP need to continually graze.....

[LibertyorDeath]

61. KC25 Spew all you want it can't change the FACT that GWB aka Shrub

Will go down in History as THEE WORST PRESIDENT EVER !!!!!!

AND THAT MTF IS A FACT. LIVE & LEARN>>> NOW $%^# OFF BACK TO THE HERD
OVER AT FREEP LAND.

[Chomskyite]

91. Where'd you hear . . .

. . . that Uday and Qusay hated each other? I know that Uday had reportedly told someone he didn't get along with his father, but I never heard the two brothers hated one another, as well.

Come to think of it, there is some reportage that suggests Qusay was behind the assassination attempt on Uday, right? But I dont think it was very well substantiated.

[LibertyorDeath]

53. Agreed 100% this Fairy Tale Reeks.

What's one more Lie for these Fuckers. Their in this shit up to their eyeballs with no where to go but down. So toss another Lie on the Fire. It's not like the sheep are gonna analyze it. Rove is sleeping well tonight no doubt.

Wicked Post It's a Keeper

Hats of to CaptainMidnight

[mopaul]

55. you nailed it dude

very concise. you should have your own column somewhere. there is some evil shit going down, and you need to keep track.

[nolabels]

63. Did somebody call for Knock Knock Jokes?

http://www.scatty.com/jokes/knock/knockf.html


(snip)
Knock Knock
Who's there !
Farley !
Farley who ?
Farley the leader !

Knock Knock
Who's there !
Farmer !
Farmer who ?
Farmer people here than there were last year !

Knock Knock
Who's there !
Farmer !
Farmer who ?
Farmer birthday I'm going to have a new bike !

Knock Knock
Who's there !
Farrah !
Farrah who ?
Farrah 'nough !

Knock Knock
Who's there !
Fascist !
Fascist who ?
Fascist you can go !
(snip)

[DMcCabe]

64. Captain Mike et al.

I agree - everytime bush is under the gun some "wonderful" event occurs to shift everyone's attention elswhere. And the media seems to buy right into it as headlines change. The result? The issue for which he was under the gun takes a back seat or is allowed to completely blow out the back window of the car.

*** So how do we, absent assistance from the media, not allow this to happen?

DMcCabe

Visit our forum and help us overcome the BS of a bunch of "intellectual" Republicans!

http://www.fragless.net/f2f/viewforum.php?f=10

[onecitizen]

65. Absolutely correct!!

I don't believe it for one minute. Too coincidental for anyone to believe,IMO.

I'm so tired of this fight we've been in for years now. So tired. I'm about to give up. Don't want to but I don't have much fight left in me. This administration has brought this country to it's knees. We'll never be the same. The damage can't be repaired.

[kentuck]

66. Something bothersome about the entire story..???

I have a hard time believing that Uday and Qusay were so heavily armed with no supporters around them and only one bodyguard? It's difficult to comprehend why they would be together if they know the troops are looking for them? Unless it was a meeting to discuss future strategy? 200 troops with gunships and modern weapons take 6 hours to take them out? Are they sure they didn't kill John Wayne and Robert Mitchum??

[Spazito]

67. Here's what I think happened...

Phone rings at Central Command - All hell is breaking loose here at the WH on the SOTU speech! We need a success from you guys right now! Get your asses in gear and get busy! We expect something by tomorrow.

Response from Central Command - No problem! We can shoot the crap out of a house that belongs to a relative of Saddam, say that the Hussein brothers were in it. Oh, and, we can make the attacking force the same unit that "saved" Jessica Lynch! Will that do?

WH - Yeah, sounds good to us. Try and make this last a few days at least, we need to get the media off our back.

Central Command - Will do. Stay tuned, we will make it "a big show"!

This may be a joke but I bet I am not far off! LOL

[nolabels]

68. They must be listening to sombody around here or some place simular

Just heard a "new" news report they say they have got the dental records of the guys. Let me guess, the first thing they did when they invaded was secure some of dentist offices that these guys went to. They must of had teams of dentist with the film knowing this would happen, Yea right

[OldSoldier]

69. If the story's true, Saddam didn't teach his sons tradecraft

I severely doubt that's the case.

Saddam knows all about cutouts and intermediaries. There's no reason he didn't teach his kids the same things--after all, Uday and Qusay Hussein are not well-loved people.

These guys knew better than to be in the same place--especially when the whole of the United States Army is out looking for them. Besides, they hated each other.

I don't know. Maybe they got stupid. Maybe they got tricked. But I don't think so.

This is going to sound really stupid, but what would prevent Saddam's people from having dentists make the body doubles' dental charts match Saddam's, Uday's and Qusay's?

[Cujo]

72. Not so stupid

Latif Yahai, who was a dead ringer for Uday had to have his two front teeth surgecially altered to protrude like Udays. You can REad about it in his book, which is as you can imagine not entitled "I love Uday" the guy is a psychopath and its detailed in the book but it also seems that the doubles were made to seem like the originals right down to the smallest detail.

[Cujo]

74. Not so stupid

Latif Yahai, who was a dead ringer for Uday had to have his two front teeth surgecially altered to protrude like Udays. You can REad about it in his book, which is as you can imagine not entitled "I love Uday" the guy is a psychopath and its detailed in the book but it also seems that the doubles were made to seem like the originals right down to the smallest detail.

[nolabels]

75. The only stupid questions are the ones don't get asked

They keep on coming up with answers before the questions are even asked. I haven't met every habitual liar, but the ones I have seen are not to second guess themselves, they ad to line of bull with more bull. Then when questioned about how they came up with the story or conclusion they will say go find out for yourself.

That is the part I like to take them up on, next foray into the unknown, DENTAL RECORDS. Of course they have already shown many times just on this thread to be prevaricators. So maybe it’s just mute, we will see anyway

[berry]

87. I wondered, if they are so evil, why they also wouldn't inflict the same

crippling injuries on body doubles of the-one-who-was-in-a-wheelchair (can't remember which one).

This is a great thread. I needed to hear from others who thought this further example of Bush*'s "luck" stinks to high heaven.

I keep remembering how Park Chung-hee (S Korean dictator and rabid anti-communist) would ALWAYS catch a N Korean spy (sometimes dead, sometimes alive) just when it was most convenient politically. Eventually, even the least politically savvy S Korean knew this was just toooo convenient. Result--a seriously cynical population. Not entirely a bad thing, but there must be less painful ways to learn. S Korea went through a lot of shit before it elected some democratic leaders.

This Korean story may seem to be off-point, but remember that the US military was propping Park up and equally anti-communist. They know how to arrange to have an "incident" ready to go when "needed" politically. IOW, if this Uday-Qusay thing was fixed in some way, it wouldn't be the first time.

[Ripley]

71. Great Post! I agree and would add something.

I caught part of the post-Smirk mumble-fest commentary by Peter Jennings this morning. He was talking with a guy in front of the house where the bodies were. The reporter said people were also firing from "that pink house" across the street. First I've heard of that....next thing you know it will morph into a whole regiment was surrounding the 200 Airborne.

Then Jennings said something like "Wow what an intimidating compound the house was." They said the 200 guys bullhorned them to give up then they tried to go in 3 times and were turned back taking fire.

HUH? It's a two story house. Now let's see 200 guys coming in from every window and door and roof and 4 guys inside....uh....how could they be turned back at every point? Did those men possess superhero powers like laser beams from all of their orifices?

Definitely sounds made-up.

[tom_paine]

73. Well said, Captain Mike!

This reeks like the Soviet Union.

Did you ever imagine that we would have to view our Imperial government and media with exactly the same skepticism as a Soviet citizen, circa 1978? I have to admit I never did.

But that's exactly where we live now. And the other shoe, in which the Soviet-style oppression, monitoring and neighbors-spying-on-neighbors, hasn't even yet begun in earnest.

These are the Good Old Days.

Gonna suck to be an Imperial Subject of Amerika in 2050 and God help you if you live to see Amerika 2100. I have to assume the Bush Dynasty will be over (The Walker Dynasty? The Pierce Dynasty? Or some new, ruthless family that purges Emperor George P. Caligula as if he was a Romanov? Who knows? The trends are obvious but the details, as always, remain murky) by then, probably to be replaced by something worse.

Unless we get Amerikan Vespasian or Amerikan Marcus Aurelius...

But, back to the original topic. Yes, the Death of Saddam's Sons reeks of Free-Market Stalinist Lies. You are quite correct not to trust the mosters that run the Amerikan Empire.

[Nederland]

76. What exactly "stinks"?

Both of Saddam's sons. Who despised each other. Hiding out together. Still in Iraq. Only one bodyguard each. 200 US soldiers engage in a four-hour gun battle with four adults and a teenager.
.
.
.
Jesus, this one just STINKS!

I'm little confused here. What exactly are you saying, that Saddam's son's are alive, or that the military killed them elsewhere and then staged the operation for the media?

[nolabels]

77. I would say the latter of the three, just an observation :=)

N/t

[LS_Webmaster]

78. well done...

i was pretty much arguing the same thing during my lunch break today while watching Bush's little speech today. I will admit that I know little about the controversy about Lynch's capture and rescue. However, even if it did go down as the government says (which i tend to doubt) the amount of attention she alone has recieved is sickening. Tons of other soldiers have gone through worse in this war and many have died and the media couldn't probably name any of them off the top of their heads. The army as well as the government are using her in a demented way as some form of postergirl and I wish it would stop. I am willing to bet that Lynch doesn't even have a choice as to what is going on with her life right now. I bet you it wasn't her choice to work on a book or the movies. Seeing as she is still in the military I am sure that she is still considered property of the army and she is being treated so by not allowing her to make her own decisions.

As for the assassination of the two sons, I doubt it. First reports were 95% positive, then 85%, then a little less, and then all of a sudden it was 100% positive with no DNA tests. Like the captain said,they were reportedly burned beyond recognition. So what is the deal. It all smells like raw sewage to me

[ursacorwin]

79. it's so funny to someone like me who never

watches tv or listens to radio...i'm 100% internet and printed sources for news now, and so i missed the "big shift in the war" represented by this enormous capture of such important people.

but i'm with mike- this stinks. yesterday, all my sites were agog with excitement that the tide has turned and people are asking questions...finally. than, shablam! something happens and i literally can't escape it. the kobe bryant of war stories.

glad to see so many here not fall for it, you'd have no doubt whatsoever of it being stinky if you'd turn off your tv for good.

[wuushew]

80. The BBC has good radio programming on local NPR stations

However I agree with you, tv is a vast cultural wasteland

[ronnykmarshall]

82. You hit the nail on the head.

This is such bullshit. They've been dead for months and now they drag out the carcuses when the shit was hitting the fan.

[Larkspur]

83. When Dr. Henry Lee, foresenic scientist from Connecticut,...

evaluates the human remains and says that they are Saddam's sons, then I'll believe them.

[loudsue]

84. I don't buy the story, either, Cap'n!

I did for the first 9 1/2 seconds....then I considered the source, and looked around at all the flack the admin. has been taking about their lies to get to Iraq in the first place. PLUS, what the repug congress is doing to our rights and benefits while the rest of the flack is hitting the fan....no, I doubt there's much truth to the story about Saddam's sons.

What the repug congress is doing RIGHT THIS MINUTE in both houses is going to badly affect the daily lives of American citizens for decades to come, and is flying under the radar of the rest of the insanity. The dysfunctional/borderline/narcissistic personality traits of this administration (and their media accomplices) are just the attention-getters, while the permanent damage is seen on C-Span I & II. Corporations are using their bought & paid for congress-critters to ram through policies and legislation to trash our economy and send us back to a slave-state for generations, while leaving homeland security and emergency management agencies without funding or staffing....not to mention drug beneifits, schools, etc.

But on the news channels, we have 10 minutes of commercials for every 2 minutes of news, and the news is 99% neocon hype.

The reports about the attack on Saddam's sons is too unbelievable. In fact, one reporter said that the "neighbors" to this house have all said that there is "NO WAY" Saddam's sons were in that house. It's a small community, and everybody knows what everybody else is doing.

Then you have the "convenient" disguises -- shaved heads, long beards, a bullet through the teeth, badly burned bodies. Give me a break. If American agents or military have killed Saddam, his sons, or Osama, their deaths WILL be brought out only at convenient times to distract people from the worst and most heinous of what is being done to our country, or any other country.

This group in power has lost all credibility.

:kick:

[nolabels]

85. I would like to think people with Phd's are above reproach but.........

I think that might be a false assumption. I am still looking for a couple of stories on how dental records were used for fraud, yet I know a lot of court docs are sealed, so not that easy to find.

Check this site if you think dentists might be compromised, so much crap just in Colorado I thought I was going to be sick just looking at it

http://www.dora.state.co.us/dental/ndiscp.doc


http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/110121_missingdental26.shtml
Part 9: Flawed national dental database leaves dead nameless
(snip)SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER STAFF
Dental records are a key factor in matching unidentified bodies to missing persons -- sometimes the only information investigators have to work with. But the only nationwide dental database for matching the missing to the dead -- the National Crime Information Center computer -- consistently fails, even though experts have known it has been unreliable since its establishment 20 years ago. Some experts believe it has never resulted in a positive match. Here's a look at why it fails:(snip)

:kick:

[ignatius]

86. Excellent analysis...more sideshows

from the disinformation team to the "livin' in Disneyland" American sheeple.

[Butterflies]

88. Yes! Awesome post.

Thankyou - I needed to be reminded of all of that.

[ProfessorGAC]

89. Well, It Does Explain $4 Billion Per Month

200 guys, 5 hours, against 4 men and a teenager. 1000 man hours to with the most sophisticated killing hardware known to man to take down 5 people?

That type of efficiency explains the $13 million per day bill this misadventure is costing us. So, if this is our level of efficiency in this operation, maybe it is the truth. It would explain a lot. Wouldn't it?
The Professor

[CaptainMidnight]

90. Another Example:

The arrest of Jose Padilla.

Last summer, this guy's mug was plastered ALL OVER the newspapers, all over the Cable news shows; John Ashcroft even held an emergency press conference in Germany, while travelling, and somberly informed us all that the freshly-caught Padilla was making a nuclear suitcase bomb, and was planning to detonate it in NYC. Padilla was an Al Qaeda operative!

Padilla's arrest helped push the "Bush Knew" headlines outta the news last summer.

Then, it slowly trickled out that they'd actually arrested this guy three months earlier, that he was really a Chicago gang member with no ties to Al Qaeda, and that he had no ability to make ANY sort of bomb.

Anybody else remember this shit?

Captain Mike

[CWebster]

92. exceptional!

Bookmarked.

[CaptainMidnight]

94. thanx, CW

always appreciate feedback, comments, and input on the stuff i write that feels like shitting a basketball when I'm doing it. The words just can't come fast enough for my thoughts, it actually hurts!

Captain Mike

[2548HR]

95. What if Saddam

comes out with another tape and says his sons are not dead? What kind of reaction will happen? I am a big sceptic of the story of their death,s, far too many differnt details kept surfacing.

[CaptainMidnight]

96. starting a new followup thread to my original post

I'll address this very issue, Mr. 25 or 6 to 4!

Captain Mike

[CWebster]

97. You know...

if you were wanted dead or alive (preferrably dead), there are advantages of being perceived as dead. You could run a terrorist network completely unrecognised.

You know, its not a bad scenario for a criminal, a terrorist or an underworld type of operator.

[CaptainMidnight]

99. EXACTLY!

CW,

Great Minds think alike. I will be raising that VERY point.

I'm editing it now, will post in GD, soon. What to call this new post to make it eye-catching?

Son of SADDAM'S SONS 86'D?

The Captain

[spanone]

98. When the walls come crumbling down....

[Starpass]

100. Saddam and/or bin Laden will be "defrosted" from the same freezer and

put on display,ohhhhhhh, about the time of the Democratic
Convention.

[CaptainMidnight]

101. right on, Starpass

I cannot think that that idea hasn't crossed Karl Rove's crooked mind.

Captain Mike