Cat herding runs rampant, and the GOP IS SMILING THEIR ASSES OFF.

[Tyler Durden]

"IF THEY NOMINATE ..... I'LL VOTE GREEN BECAUSE....."
I never heard such a load of "holler before you're hurt" TRIPE in my entire LIFE.

People, WHEN is the fucking primary? Did they hold one yet? I hadn't heard of it. SO WHAT IS ALL OF THIS SPECIOUS BULLSHIT ABOUT WHO AND WHY FOR NOVEMBER 2004? We'll be lucky if we even HAVE an election.

You know, we have the worst president in the history of the country (INCLUDING Hoover, Buchannan, and Filmore) and there are still people who think this about "making a statement." This is about survival of the nation. If Bush wins, you could elect Democrats RIGHT AND LEFT for the rest of the generation, and the JUDGES and SUPREME COURT JUSTICES that will be the fallout of the Bush disaster will plague your GREAT FUCKING GRANDCHILDREN.

WE are supposed to be the party that takes the long view, NOT THEM. They have figured out that the long view is the only way to secure power in the long run AND THEY ARE GOD DAMNED DOING IT.

If the Greens stood a snowball's chance in HELL of winning, I would say FUCK the Democratic Party. They Don't. They WON'T. At least not for the next 10 years or so. GET THE FUCK OVER IT.

I AM A SOCIALIST. My party will NEVER win. We will NEVER have a majority in either house, or hold the White House. I needed to get over that and remember my Marxist roots and the inevitability of history: THE LONG VIEW. I did. The body politic will not be mature enough to embrace Socialism in this country, possibly for the rest of my life. So be it.

CAN I CHANGE THIS? Given the current level of political awareness in the body politic, can I, or the Socialist Workers' Party educate the nation to political awareness? Nope. Christ all fucking mighty, we have people on this board defending the CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG as a historical heritage, something I view as "I like horses, so I fly the BATTLE FLAG OF THE 7TH CAVALRY AS A HISTORICAL HERITAGE. Give me a God Damned break.

All I know is that the FASCISTS in power make "Holy Joe" look like a card-carrying Communist. We are the Weimar Republic, getting ready to implode and you're worried about WHO will oppose HITLER, instead of ANYONE WHO OPPOSES HITLER????? AND ALL OF THIS 6 MONTHS BEFORE THE FIRST CAUCUS AND 15 MONTHS BEFORE THE ELECTION????????? Stop it. NOW.

As to the election, WORK ON THE PRIMARIES without pissing on each other, and when the election comes, VOTE FOR THE GOD DAMNED DEMOCRAT, OR VOTE FOR BUSH.

If you DO NOT vote for WHOEVER will get these monsters out of office, you might as well be honest and vote for him anyway.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

1. Thank you

I'm a Socialist too and I agree.
People, time to quit whining. So, whoever gets nominated is not perfect. want four more years of * instead? Grow the f*ck up, this is politics, which is compromise and learning to do the best with what you've got. Or you could feel pure in the concentration camps after Shrub wins.

[Tyler Durden]

8. You're supposed to mellow with age: I'm not.

I shake with nerves, my blood sugar fluctuates with my mood, and my digestive tract is disintegrating. I have Migraines 3 times a week.

WHY? I'm scared to death that I won't get my wife and children to safety before the camps open.

Keep the fucking tinfoil hat: I think the vast majority has no clue what's going to happen; that's what you get in a Republic when you stop teaching REAL HISTORY.

Personally, I think that the impending and unavoidable revolution is only a matter of time, and I work on political campaigns to give my family TIME to escape.

No shit. This is how I REALLY FEEL.

[Tyler Durden]

14. Also, no offense to anyone....

...I'm going to continue the POLITICAL fight as long as possible, but once I see that "event horizon" oncoming revolution, me and my family are OUTA HERE.

The well is being dug, the septic field is going in, the pneumatics are purchased, and the windmills/solar panels are being bid.

This isn't the way I wanted to build my commune, but I won't have me or mine in the new concentration camps.

I feel like a Jew in Crackow, and it's 1938. Check, please, it's time to LEAVE.

[lkinsale]

31. Heh, you sound like those guys who want to succeed from Texas

I ain't leaving for nuttin', myself. Courage is staying to fight. Period.

[demnan]

2. I agree

I think sometimes people on DU tend to be more idealistic than is practical. Politics is about compromise. Unless you are willing to compromise some of your beliefs, you will not get "a piece of the pie".

Anyone but Bush!

[diplomats]

3. Amen

Anyone but Bush!

[mourningdove92]

5. count me in

our main objective is to rid the US of a dangerous regime. I don't care WHO wins the democratic primary. I am pulling for Dean, but will vote for
ANYONE BUT BUSH 2004

:kick:

[Dulcinea]

19. I completely agree!

I'll support Kerry, Dean, or whomever the Dems nominate. Anything to get this cabal of corporate buttlickers out of power.

Voting 3rd party is just FLUSHING YOUR VOTE!

[bergamot]

24. One cheer for compromise.

That's true. You need to remind the DLC of that.

Although none of the prominent Democratic candidates are close to my views on many issues, I will still vote for Democratic nominee - as long as the nominee isn't on my Will-Not-Vote-For-Unless-The-Republicans-Nominate-Stalin list.

Currently on the list: Lieberman, Biden.

[Tyler Durden]

25. Bush is Stalin.

I think I said a couple of days back that if you let me choose who to shoot: Hitler or Mussolini, Adolph gets the bullet.

That was not a threat on anyone's life: interpret that as "A vote that lets Bush get elected is a vote for Bush."

[Redleg]

4. A passionate appeal for pragmatism. Thank you.

I agree. I am not just saying that because I am a Democrat.

[tomp]

6. does supporting a candidate involve pointing out differences...

...from other candidates? if so, i'm not sure it is possible to do that demurely. this is politics after all.

i long ago committed to voting abb (barring unforseen circumstances, and ONLY to get bush out, not because i think a dem will improve much), but i do support truth-telling about candidates' records and statements.

i, too am a socialist. therefore i have little faith in democrats, who have apparently failed to see or think outside the box, or even admit that there is an outside to the box. we'll be lucky to survive, let alone thrive.

[Tyler Durden]

10. Fuckin' A. see my post above.

I become more of a Marxist every day: the revolution is likely inevitable, and personally I think could happen within the next few years, meaning within 3, if Bush remains in power.

[blm]

7. This socialist agrees with you....

A vote for ANY Dem against Bush. Even the Green Medea Benjamin agrees, Tyler Durden.

[OrdinaryTa]

9. Bush's Chances in New York State

Giuliani is predicting that Bush will carry New York State. If the polls indicate that there's a possibility of that happening, maybe I'll swallow my pride and vote for a Democrat who voted for the war. Or maybe not. I'm definitely not going to vote for either of New York's senators no matter who they're running against or how close the race. I'm really pissed that Hillary defied her constituents to vote for the war. And I'll miss voting for the likeable Chuck Schumer, but there's gotta be some accountability.

On edit: typo

[Tyler Durden]

13. Do what you want.

Most real Socialist like me are agnostic on their best day. We believe in the best road for the majority of the people (Translate: "The dictatorship of the masses"). We don't send messages, we don't believe in losing wars on principle: Socialists think people who believe in "Pyrrhic Victory" are idiots of the first rank.

I won't convert anyone here. This largely just eases my migraine after the "Hussein Boys Massacre" and "The Robert E. Lee Memorial Society welcomes Li'l JESSIE!", combined with the utter idiocy of the herd in following that neo NAZI and his fellow fascists.

I've got my plans, and they don't include dying at the barricaides.

[OrdinaryTa]

15. Thank You, I Plan To

Voting for war shows you don't really share my values. You might be a rock solid Democrat in every way but that. I'm not particularly fussy, either. However, if you vote for war, you make yourself ineligible for my vote. I do not vote for warmongers or people who support them, period.

[Tyler Durden]

20. Oh give me that "voting for war" bullshit.

In my not so humble opinion, if you vote in anyway shape or form that makes another Bush administration happen, then YOU are voting for war, genocide, infanticide, corporatism, imperialism, and FASCISM.

Period. And thanks for the insult. When you've demonstrated against the Vietnam War and got gasses and beaten as I had in 1971, THEN you can talk about voting for war. Until then, your antiwar cred is pretty damned shakey.

[OrdinaryTa]

36. Eligible Candidates

When you apply for a job you have to meet the minimum requirements. In the case of people I "hire" to represent me in government, those people also face minimum requirements. Candidates who voted for Bush's war are not eligible for my vote.

It's regrettable if the Democratic candidate can't clear what I think is a truly minimal hurdle. Lots of Democrats managed to vote against the Iraq war. I would much prefer to vote for a Democrat, if a qualified Democrat is available.

[Tyler Durden]

44. And BUSH, who made the war, IS eligble?

By your logic, you will not take someone 60% qualified, and by your negation, leave in power an adminstration 0% qualified?

I never heard cutting off one's nose to spite their face put so eloquently.

[aquart]

40. No Bush has ever carried New York.

We were dying and he was hiding.

The police and fire people supported him. Then he screwed them on medical followup.

Yeah, George is real welcome here.

Giuliani can be a jackass every day for the rest of his life (the remark about Bush is pretty much proof of that) and it won't matter because he was here when it counted. His rent is paid. Bush, however, owes.

[utopian]

11. You're right on Tyler

I think you say what a lot of us have been thinking. Frankly, I can't wait to cast my vote. Who it's for is less relevant to me this time than who it's agaist. For the sake of our childrens' future, we need to throw the bastards out.

[Loonman]

12. Hear, hear!

:thumbsup:

[dae]

16. Thanks TD, ABB, for me and mine. Where I'm from

to do anything else would be considered, "cutting off my nose to spite my face".

[ronnykmarshall]

17. Thank you !

I agree 100% !

[Quahog]

18. Absofreakinluelty

Tyler, you are right. I hope the Dems nominate someone I can stomach, but I'll vote for anyone to topple Smirk.

I hate W's war-mongering, I hate his imperialism, I hate his rape of the environment, I hate his entitlement-by-birthright smirking disdain for anyone who challenges his coronation. But I don't feel that any of these things are likely to provide the catalyst for revolution.

What will, and this is the fault of not just the chimp but his whole stinking rotten entourage of greedy corporate leeches, is the widening gap in socioeconomic status in this country. People think it's gonna be the "patriotic" rednecks shooting at the pinko libruls. Nope. It's gonna be the have-nots shooting at the haves. And the line separating them, well, I figure that's going to be determined by the mood of whoever happens to be holding the biggest gun. I'm in the middle, and therefore likely to be gunned down be either side.

Bigger scary picture: this is one way that these insane end-times evangelicals could accelerate the rush to armageddon. Another way is by making the environment unlivable for humans and other animals. Another way is by aggravating the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Another way is by antagonizing North Korea. Interesting that this administration is attempting to do ALL of these things.

If the BFEE stays in power another 4 years, they'll get their armageddon. The only part that will be missing will be Jesus whooshing down to sweep the Bush clan straight up to paradise. All they'll get is the dead bodies.

I'm with you, I don't want to be here to see it. And I sure as hell ain't gonna vote Green and FACILITATE it.

[Tyler Durden]

21. The "commune" will be in Canada...

...But there won't be much room as I'm going to have to build it myself.

If there is a "refugee" status of US to Canada Immigration, I'll help with land and founding the community, but I won't stay here until the fire starts. They won't be giving ME a day pass from the camp to dig graves. I won't be here.

[Ellen Forradalom]

22. Al Sharpton says it loud and clear

Sharpton knows that evicting Bush from the people's White House is Priority One.

"I'm running to win, and nobody knows - until they are actually nominated in Boston in July, 2004 - who will win the Democratic nomination and be elected President in 2004. We do know that only ONE of us will win. And if I do not secure the nomination, I vow to support any of the Democratic candidates running, over George W. Bush or any other Republican presidential nominee." (http://www.al2004.org/topten.htm)

[Tyler Durden]

23. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Thank you Al Sharpton: "...nobody knows - until they are actually nominated in Boston in July, 2004 - who will win the Democratic nomination and be elected President in 2004." Time to stop playing "If I don't get my ice cream, I won't clean my room." don't you think?

[worldcomflunky]

27. What's up with all this talk of concentration camps if Bush wins 2004?

You know something we don't? Let's not forget more people voted for Gore than Bush. They would have to round up half the nation if they wanted to go that route. Hell.....wouldn't put it past this gang to try it if they thought they could get away with it. That being said half this nation that did vote for Gore still pays taxes. They need us to help fund the war machine and other PNAC wars they will no doubt start if they get another four years. If we are stitting in camps, we can't help with the on going PNAC agenda. If you truly believe all hell is going to break loose though, you better get started working on the paperwork NOW if want to make a pre-emtive move to Canada before the shit hits the fan. You probably already know but in case you don't it is hard as hell to get into Canada. It's also a time consuming and costly agenda. Me personally...I think your being paranoid. However, in the off chance your right there is one guy right here that will never make it to any camp. When they come for me, I am taking a few of the Nazi's out with me. To much blood has been spilled in the past for freedom and democracy to just willingingly waltz into some camp. As Chimpy said, Bring em on!!!

[mrsteve]

30. Well, they already started with the Muslims...

Not once but twice.

Remember just after 9/11 - we jailed 300 odd Muslims and Arabs with little or no justification. Although most were let go within 30 - 180 days, some are still in jail. And many that were released were summarily deported for major to minor visa violations.

The second time was last year, when if I recall correctly all citizens of the Middle East in the US were required to register their current status at the INS. Once again, many were deported for major to minor visa violations. But the major point was initimidation of all the aliens involved, and information gathering. Now the INS have an up to date list of all Middle Eastern aliens in the US, ready for any use the Ashcroft Justice department might see fit.

So you see, you don't have to put 50% of the people in camps to control the country. You just have to act like you have the will and the way.

Do I really think it will come to putting hundreds of thousands, or even millions of Americans, in camps? Not really. At least not right now.

But that opinion is mainly based on the behavior of the American people in the last 3 years. I don't think camps and other such measures will be necessary to intimidate the American public into giving up their rights to Bushco. I think that you don't need to work that hard to initimidate a public that doesn't think critically, or just doesn't seem to care.

[HFishbine]

26. Relax

Dude, chill.

I think it's a good thing that we have such a variety of opinion here on DU. I think it benefits us as individual voters and I think it will benefit the eventual democratic nominee. Let's hash it all out now, amongst ourselves, and we'll be more united (not perfectly) and better prepared to bring our ideas to the American people than if we just all bit our tongues for the sake of harmony.

Once we have a nominee, I think you'll see a change in tone on this board. In the mean time, all the sound and furry are an accompaniment to the symphony of democracy. Celebrate it.

[LiberalLibra]

28. Add my name for this rant because I agree with EVERY WORD......

:toast:

[leftofthedial]

29. right on!

VOTE DEM OR VOTE BUSH.

[RetroLounge]

32. You got it exactly CORRECT!

any vote for a non-dem is a vote for Bush*

[ninkasi]

33. So will I, Tyler.

I'll vote for any of the Dem candidates, even if I have to seek consolation with massive amounts of booze afterwards. Getting Bush and that unholy gang out is priority #1.

I'm getting more liberal as I get older, too. I'm 60. Best of luck to you in Canada, you are doing what you feel you need to to secure your family's safety.

If I have to leave, it would probably be to Mexico, because I speak good enough Spanish to not be completely helpless. I'm sure learning it even better would come quickly.

[alaine]

37. I must be REALLY REALLY stupid...

I just don't get it. My understanding of the Green Party is that it is environmentally centered. The only other possibility I can think of is that it is a black op. of the repuke party and green is short for greenback. For the sake of argument I'll go with #1. How can any green really believe they will not be karmically accountable for all the horrible environmental damage that a) has happened since dubya was selected, (from the repeal of WV enviromental protection laws to Dubyas rejection of the Kyoto protocol) and b)will happen if he is re-elected. The universe is a whole lot smarter than this and doesn't give a damn about our principles if it leads to more destruction. The universe made us homo sapiens and gave us a intellectual capacity greater than any other species on the planet. I think we are supposed to use it, and not get hung up on juvenile justifications for repeating a complete abdication of responsiblity like Greens did in 2000.

Although I probably qualify more as a green than I do as a dem. politically, just because I sometimes feel like I am further to the left than alot of people here, I also believe I have personal responsibility to all beings that will suffer because of dubya's re-election. I can't believe anyone would forfeit the ability to protect the environment or the other occupants of the planet even a little bit so that they could gloat that they "voted their conscience" Whatever kind of "conscience" that is, I don't want.

[Terwilliger]

41. got to be the most stupid thing I've ever seen on DU

and green is short for greenback

Karmically speaking, Democrats will rot in hell with the rest of them.

[Tyler Durden]

43. Hell is where the Bush "Rapture" will take us.

Do you want the URL's for the .pdf of the "Crowd Control protocols?" This isn't tinfoil hat stuff. This is what happen when Republics disintegrate into factionalism: they are vulnerable to despots.

Read some history for crying out loud; it's ROMANOVS AND BOLSHEVIKS, PATRICIANS AND PLEBIANS, ARTISTOCRATS AND SERFS ALL OVER AGAIN, and until we all grow up politically, Socialism will just have to wait.

The KARMIC DEFICIT comes from allowing SATAN/BUSH to get one step closer to the neoCON/FASCIST/NAZI POLICE STATE. This has NOTHING to do with Principle; until political education becomes univeral, we must except political realty: Bush is the enemy.

[Bake]

42. Count me in on that. Anyone But Bush!

Even if I have to vote for Holy Joe (which I don't think will happen).

Bake

[Starpass]

34. The "Left Wing" Band Wagon first...

..has to get all to stand together in one place and get on the fucking wagon so it can start rolling down the highway. Then it has to keep all the goddamn drunks from falling off the wagon, falling under the wheels and, thus, overturning the damn thing. THEN THEN THEN, if the goddamn thing finally pulls up to the front gates of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, deposits a new leader in the Oval Office, rolls down the street and deposits a whole shitload of cargo into the Senate and the House, THEN is the time to start adjusting the wagon a bit here and there and trying to get it go veer a little more left and then a little more than that to the left. In a word, with this god fucking steamroller that is rolling over the nation to the far right, we are not going to be able to jump from that far right point all the way over to "real liberal"---the country has been so brainwashed that it just plain will not make that drastic of a move. The trick first is to get it at least on the goddamn left side of things and proceed from there.

[Mairead]

35. The pragmatic thing to do is nominate a candidate all can support

Nominating someone for whose positions even supporters must apologise positively begs for a schism.

[OrdinaryTa]

39. Humphrey Lost In 1968

I was one of the many who could not bring themselves to vote for Humphrey, who had called the Vietnam War "glorious". He didn't lose by very much, probably by less than the number of people who voted Peace & Freedom, or something else.

There's no guarantee I'll vote for the Democratic candidate in 2004. If I don't like any of the candidates, I may just write in the name "Tyler Durden".

[ewagner]

38. ..most important thing you said

"...work in the primaries without pissing on each other..."

Push for whomever you like; whomever you believe in, but remember when the primaries are over we have a common goal and a common foe:THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION!

good post.