Two things I hold against Hillary Clinton and hope to overcome for 2008

[loudnclear]

1. Her refusal to support the Black Caucus when they tried to injunction the results of the 2000 election

2. Her vote for the Iraqi invasion.

How do the rest of you feel about this. Otherwise, i would be her supporter for a 2008 Presidential run.

[jsw_81]

1. Don't worry about it

In 2008 President Dean will be running for re-election.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

2. In 2008, Clark will be running for Re-Election.

:dem:

[jsw_81]

5. That's also a definite possibility

:)

[pnorman]

6. In 2008, Kucinich will

be running for reelection.

STAND UP KEEP FIGHTING

[jsw_81]

10. Now that is not a possibility at all

My cat has a better chance of being elected than Dennis Kucinich.

[Kat 333]

14. I wonder if it's true

that you can tell a lot about a candidate by the words and actions of their supporters ?

[oasis]

17. Stay on the subject, this is a "Trash Hillary" thread, please stay focused

[Field Of Dreams]

29. LOL!

n/t

[Kat 333]

36. LOL

Oh Yeah ...
sorry
DEAN IS GOOD
DEAN IS GOOD
DEAN IS GOOD
DEAN IS GOOD
DEAN IS GOOD
DEAN IS GOOD
DEAN IS GOOD
DEAN IS GOOD
DEAN IS GOOD
DEAN IS GOOD
DEAN IS GOOD

Oooops - that's right
This is supposed to be about trashing Hillary.

How did we get off subject ... lol

[youngred]

22. he's not electable

he's not electable
he's not electable
he's not electable
he's not electable
he's not electable
he's not electable
he's not electable
he's not electable
he's not electable
he's not electable
he's not electable
he's not electable


Just keep repeating that mantra to yourself and I'm sure he won't be :eyes:

[jsw_81]

35. He's not electable

And it doesn't matter if I say it or not because it's an objective fact. Are you even old enough to shave, youngred? I doubt it.

[Kat 333]

41. Reply to 22

Are you even old enough to remember them saying the SAME thing about Truman ?
I doubt it ...

The Newspapers reported that Dewey had won the election they were so sure he didn't have a rats ass of a chance.

Imagine that ... If you're able

[youngred]

45. Nice personal attack

Is that the best you have to offer insulting my age (which you do not know). He may not be electable but he is certainly the best candidate in the field.

I may be young, but you need to grow up

[Zhade]

56. Bullshit. He's been elected more times than Bush was.

Saying "Kucinich is unelectable" is laughable. He's already BEEN elected. Multiple times, in fact.

Now, if one argues "he can/can't beat Bush", then at least the argument starts from an honest base.

[Fla_Democrat]

44. What's your cat's platform,

and does it have a web page? :evilgrin:

[SahaleArm]

50. Sorry those records are sealed

:evilgrin:

[Silverhair]

54. I asked my cat about it and he purred! I think we got a movement.

Maybe they can prevent a cat-astrophe. Doesn't Bush v2/0 have a, gasp, horrors, a d-o-g? Eviction notices must be served.

[FredScuttle]

57. New Headline on Drudge

HOT: Candidate Cat purrs in response to platform dodge...also, Cat in consultation with Hillary, Jimmy Carter and the ghost of Eugene Debs. DEVELOPING

[Hippo_Tron]

49. If we keep this up Bush might be running for re-election in 2008...

Then again, if he changed the rules Bill Clinton could run against him. That would rock!!

[joeybee12]

3. Here's my take

As for number one, the Dems pretty much laid down and died during the so-called recount, so all of a sudden getting backbone would have been a surprise.

As for number two, I am disappointed in all Dems who voted for it, however, I didn't see her as leading the anit-war effort like DiFi or Kerry, so even though she voted for it, I was surprised, as I was with the other two.

2008 is a long time away.

[neebob]

4. #3

Her recent statement that we need more troops in Iraq.

[dusty64]

7. On most issues she

has disappointed me as much as most of the other Democrats. Support for the "patriot" act, chimp's war, 87 billion $ blank check to rethug donors, etc. Lack of leadership when it is needed although I'm sure I'll have to vote for her in 2006 (no choice). I expected more from her, knowing she DOES know the deal. She would simply be too polarizing in 2008 and I see no possible way she could EVER win a national election in this country.

[SheilaT]

8. As much as I admire and respect Hillary

I likewise am not sure I can get over ANY Democrat who voted for the War Powers Resolution.

More to the point, I think her candidacy in any year is highly unlikely. She's simply too divisive, not just within the Democratic party, but for the country as a whole. All the hatred that has been directed towards her and Bill for over a decade now will be in full force and then some.

When she first decided to run for senator I was appalled. I couldn't imagine, much as I liked her, being a New Yorker and being willing to vote for her. She didn't seem to know anything about the state and its issues. She's learned a lot, and from what I can tell, is mostly a good senator.

[neebob]

9. #4

Her failure to divorce her philandering husband. That says more about her than anything, IMHO. Actually, I think it should be #1.

Before I get flamed, I'm not saying he wasn't a good president. I voted for him twice. All I'm saying is Hillary's refusal to cut him loose sets a bad example for other women and doesn't exactly refute the widespread belief she's a power animal.

[bowens43]

12. What business is that of ours?

It's between her and Bill.

[neebob]

15. That's a valid point

You're right, it's none of my business. But it doesn't stop me from having more respect for a woman who is, um, shall I say willing to prove she doesn't need a man?

[oasis]

16. '"bad example for other women"?Hillary's America's "Most Admired Woman"

Welcome to the 21st century. :hi:

[neebob]

18. Yes, there are things about Hillary worth admiring

Staying married is not on my list.

[oasis]

20. Her support of Bill was instrumental in his high approval numbers

during the impeachment. They both should be commended for thwarting right-wing efforts to overturn the results 1996 election.

[neebob]

25. No, I don't think a presidential divorce

would have been a good idea, but I'm not ready to commend them for '96 when Bill's behavior helped put BushCo in a position to steal the 2000 election. I think a lot of people who would otherwise have voted for Gore were willing to give the chimp a chance, based on his lies, because of Bill's shenanigans. Here was Bush saying he'd restore honor and ______ (whatever else he said) to the White House and be humble and bring people together and shit. I think that swayed some voters.

[oasis]

27. If not for a Scaife funded witchhunt, Bill's "shenanigans" would remain

unknown to the world. I suggest you read "the Hunting of the President" by Joe Conason and Gene Lyons, or "Blinded By the Right" by David Brock.

[neebob]

28. I don't doubt that

and Blinded By the Right is on my list. I'm still reading Fortunate Son.

[oasis]

34. Enjoy your reading. I hope it fuels your anger towards the WH resident.

[Red State Rebel]

26. I agree, I think it sets a terrible example to young women ....

that they need to hang in to a husband who has betrayed and disrespected them in order to have validation or power. It sets the women's movement back decades.

[Solomon]

32. Wrong wrong wrong. You guys are showing gross disrespect for the

institution of marriage. You are supposed to try and work it out, not divorce at the first sign of trouble. What a bad point of view you guys have.

[Red State Rebel]

37. It's one thing to try to work it out, but after years of betrayal you have

to perserve some self worth and dignity.

[Solomon]

31. Strong disagreement here. Marriages are "for better or worse"

and you are supposed to try and make them work no matter what. You are quite wrong in your judgment here. I thought she appeared stronger by NOT jumping to a knee-jerk reaction about it. It's a bad argument.

[neebob]

42. Well, gosh, I'm not sure what to say to that

that won't have me sitting here all day, defending myself. You're right, I don't have the proper respect for the institution of marriage. I often forget to feed the machine.

[loudnclear]

38. Can't agree. Too many women have had philandering husbands

If that was a cause for divorce the percentage of marriages ending in divorce in this country would be 98% instead of 51%.

I don't hold it against any one, man or woman, for having a forgiving spirit when it comes to their spouses or children...or anyone for that matter. It takes a strong spiritual undergirding and a sense of values to do what she did. And what husband out there could have withstood a Monica?

I thinks it's more of a plus than a minus for keeping her family together..that's a good example to set for other women. Bill was not beating the shit out of her, drinking, dopping, getting drunk, molesting his own child, having sex with his sister or sister-in-law like so many "upstanding men" (rightwingers included). Keeping it all in perspective, what Bill did wasn't anywhere near what my dad did (two kids outside of marriage) and my mom stuck by him. And we in my family had a pretty decent life...including my half brothers.

[Carolina]

47. have you met the man?

Bill Clinton is a phenomenon. I cannot describe his charisma but oh my. Women are drawn to him. When he came to a fundraiser for a local Dem back in 1998, WOW! Ya either love him or loathe him; I fall in the former category.

Women stick with philandering husbands all the time for assorted reasons. The only people who fully understand a marriage are the people in it, a fact that applies to Bill and Hil. He is larger than life; she signed on and stayed on, and I tell ya, I don't blame her.
Having met him twice now, I'd have done the same thing.

[neebob]

48. No, but I can see the charisma

Women fall for charismatic, successful men who turn out to be much bigger jerks than Bill Clinton all the time. And they stay with them and subject themselves and their children to horrific abuse for a lot of stupid reasons.

I'm not citing Clinton as an example. There I think you've got two people who love power and have a mutually beneficial team thing going. So he cheats like a dog - perhaps the financial and political benefits outweigh the humiliation. Perhaps they have an understanding. I wouldn't presume to say. It certainly is her prerogative to stay with him. It doesn't make her a good role model.

Personally, I don't see the attraction - but then I have a jaundiced eye, having been swept off my feet and then nearly ruined by a psychopathic con man who seemed like Mr. Wonderful. Years later, I'm still paying for it. I learned a lot from my experience - most notably, that the world is full of people without conscience, and many of them are tremendously successful.

Now I look askance at Mr. Wonderful and require hard evidence that he has a conscience. I don't see much of it in politics.

I guess if you've never had a monster stand in front of you and insist on an outrageous lie, knowing full well you know the truth, you might see someone less monstrous doing that on television and think, oh, he's just protecting his privacy or whatever. Or gosh, he's good looking. Bleccchhh.

[FredScuttle]

58. Has anyone considered that the Clintons are respecting Chelsea...

by staying together?

just wondering

[bowens43]

11. Dean will be the incumbent in 2008

He'll get my vote again.

[oasis]

13. Black caucus injunction? In 2000 had she even been sworn in as senator?

[goobergunch]

43. Yes

She was sworn in on January 3, and the counting was on January 6.

[youngred]

46. 3 Whole Days!

wow, I'm sure she hadn't even settled into her office at that point :crazy:

[ringmastery]

19. OK, if not hillary, who else

Assuming we lose in '04 and I think I'm being optimistic when I say it's a 50/50 chance we do, who else is viable in '08 besides Hillary?

[liberalpress]

33. If the Dems lose in '04...

...there won't be am '08 election to worry about

[youngred]

21. I wouldn't support her for 2008

she would be torn to shreds and the visceral reaction against her by anything slightly right would be disastrous. Think I'm wrong. i'm from upstate NY and were it not for the city and a couple other places she wouldn't have been a senator.

She should stay Senator.

Her support of the war was not unexpected considering her precarious position in NY and given what seemed like an effective strategy right before the mid-term elections. While I was dissapointed, infuriated and frustrated with the dems then I understood why they felt the need to do it.

As for stopping the thievery of the republicans...THat also was not unexpected considering the incessant abuse rained down on any dem opposing the illegal theft. I wished they'd all stood up, but one cannot do it by themselves

[jsw_81]

23. Hillary

From what I read, she actually did quite well upstate. Better than Schumer IIRC.

[youngred]

24. somewhat

but she only won a handful of upstate counties. She may have won more than the more unpopular Schumer, but not by much. You should have heard the local radio and print coverage about that race. She beneffited from running against a very weak and late-coming opponent.

[Solomon]

30. I think she HAD to vote for invasion of Iraq.

I give her a pass on this one since no women could ever be elected president who voted against war.

[Scott Lee]

53. So there was a gun to her head?

Or did she, like her co enablers Kerry, Gephardt and Lieberman, vote for a huge crime in order to save their own jobs?

Way to die with your boots on, guys!

[Scott Lee]

39. I fully agree with you. Hillary Clinton is old school.

And these folks need to move over. Her vote for the IWR was the stake through the heart for me.

[dvddrone]

40. Both valid criticisms...

of Senator Clinton, and there are more besides, but I'd still vote for her if she got the Dem nomination in '08. I'm sick to death of these neo-clowns. I'm ABN - Anybody But Neo-clowns.

Elizabeth

[MrPrax]

51. How about recycling RePuke slogans?

WASHINGTON - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said Friday the United States "must stay the course" in both Afghanistan and Iraq and called for more military personnel to finish the job.

The New York Democrat has spent two event-filled days meeting soldiers, leaders and citizens in Afghanistan and Iraq, and she spoke in a telephone interview from Kuwait.

"We have to exert all of our efforts militarily, but the outcome (in Iraq) is not assured," she said.
(more)
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20031129/1053287.asp


She is so 80s...

[Scott Lee]

52. Argh.....gag me.

That was almost as bad as Pickles telling the media that she met with the family of a British soldier killed in Iraq, and the mother tearfully told her to "stay the course".

Are you f***ing kidding me???

[Zhade]

55. As far as I'm concerned, both actions border on treason.

1. A proven stolen election WHILE IT WAS HAPPENING - just look at, say, Greg Palast's work, which she could have been privvy to just like other Americans were at the time (I wasn't, but hey, I'm still young and was not at all an activist at the time). To not block an electoral coup is to skate very close to betrayal of America.

2. An illegal war, with the obvious certainty that a vote for "future use of force, maybe" was actually a vote for war. Hell, even I knew that at the time, and I also knew the reasons (WMD, an "immediate threat") were bullshit. So she had no - NO - excuse.

Would Hillary ever get my vote? Not too likely. But that's JMHO.