Lieberman despicable on Fox "News" this morning

[WhosNext]

Tony Snow point blankley asks LIEberman "can Howard Dean beat George W Bush in 2004?". LIEberman answers with ".......uh.....I know I can beat Bush ". What a joke. I know LIEberman is getting his ass kicked by Dean, but hell at least try to show some solidarity with a fellow party candidate. We need to be united.

[MIMStigator]

1. Unfortunately he's right

Dean will doom us. Lieberman said it for political reasons but alot of people like me believe it too because we hate Bush and want to win and we think Dean will doom us.

[trumad]

3. Gee...A Clark guy saying Dean will Doom us....

How original..:eyes:

[MIMStigator]

4. Are we not supposed to say it

I can see backing up your guy but do you really think we shouldn't say anything if we think Dean = Bush win?

[Touchdown]

21. Well, if any of you actually provide good reasons

for thinking the way you do....for once. I'd be happy to entertain them.

Question: After you, and all of the other doomsayers out there have your fill, and Dean actually...Horror of horrors!...gets the nomination, in spite of your dire predictions (which is really just nothing more than dog track prognosticating) what then? How will you bring back into the fold all of the fence sitters who you've managed to demoralize into believing everything is hopeless and staying home on election day, so that they might have one last ray of hope? How will you look then? Let's say he loses, but just by a hair, and it could be contributed to too many Dems staying home, because they were told 6 months before that since Dean is the nominee, it's hopeless. Will you be able to sleep at night?

Me? I say Carol Mosely Braun can beat the pants off of Chimpy, so that means every other candidate will beat him too, and I refuse to engage in fearmongering until those election results come in. The republicans believe the same way, they also know that a unified belief and surety translates into votes. You should try it sometime.

Hell, she'd still win if she ran Carrot Top has her running mate! And, you know what? If Dean, Clark, Kerry, whoever wins only by a hair, I will scream to high Heaven THAT IT'S A MANDATE...because that's exactly what they would do.

[MIMStigator]

26. good reasons

"Question: After you, and all of the other doomsayers out there have your fill, and Dean actually...Horror of horrors!...gets the nomination, in spite of your dire predictions (which is really just nothing more than dog track prognosticating) what then? How will you bring back into the fold all of the fence sitters who you've managed to demoralize into believing everything is hopeless and staying home on election day, so that they might have one last ray of hope? How will you look then? Let's say he loses, but just by a hair, and it could be contributed to too many Dems staying home, because they were told 6 months before that since Dean is the nominee, it's hopeless. Will you be able to sleep at night?"

Nobody democrat will stay home, we all hate Bush.......I believe Dean will lose but will vote anyway.

"Me? I say Carol Mosely Braun can beat the pants off of Chimpy, so that means every other candidate will beat him too, and I refuse to engage in fearmongering until those election results come in. The republicans believe the same way, they also know that a unified belief and surety translates into votes. You should try it sometime."

That's one way of looking at it but some of us don't think it matters how unified DEMOCRATS are if independents and moderates aren't impressed by the democratic candidate.

You asked for reasons to entertain what we say, well what about the fact that the economy is recovering? That means the only way we win is on terrorism and bush is gonna spend 200 million dollars scaring people and it will work. they have to believe the democrat can defend America.

[Touchdown]

30. not valid reasons

Nobody democrat will stay home, we all hate Bush.......I believe Dean will lose but will vote anyway.

It's not about you voting. It's about all those centrists, moderates that will take to heart all the swill you've been peddling about Dean being such a loser....and still without reasons why you think so.

That's one way of looking at it but some of us don't think it matters how unified DEMOCRATS are if independents and moderates aren't impressed by the democratic candidate.

So now every moderate, and centrist ALL AGREE WITH YOU ALONE! Quite the ego there, Pal. You may not like him, but his sizeable warchest speaks differently.

You asked for reasons to entertain what we say, well what about the fact that the economy is recovering?

One good stock market quarter, and all of the sudden we're in a recovery? How can there be a recovery when the employment levels for the same period remained flat? Let's wait and see if the holiday shopping will net larger than last year, before you shout doom. Second, what makes you think, that even with a recovery, that people wouldn't see Dean's economic plan as a better solution than what Bushco's bill of goods was? I don't see any reason why Dean can't defend this nation from terrorists, and tell the people that.

I am not against ClarkI like him alot mind you, and will fight like Hell to get him elected if he's the nominee. But you don't need to tear down somebody else to prop your man up. That's what repugs do.

[trumad]

32. Uh...actually I'm a Clark guy....

But at least I'm fair....

[WhosNext]

5. Clarkies better get used to Dean.

I see Dean (once he sweeps the primaries) calling on Clark to be his running mate.

[MIMStigator]

7. if that happens I'll vote for them but not give $$

I won't give money to a losing ticket but if Clark is at the top I'll max out my credit cards.

[Oreegone]

13. Clark said he would consider Dean for a running mate

This morning on his CNN interview....refused to dis Dean....

(B)GO DEAN !!(/B)

[wndycty]

14. But Clark said he would not be Dean's running mate. . .

. . .sorry to tell you but that is what he said. He said he would consider Dean as a running mate, but he would not consider being Dean's running mate.

[Ksec]

29. no he didnt

saw him today say nothing of the kind. He just didnt answer the question. He said hes running for Pres when asked that question.

[mitchum]

15. Uh, that will be a really unique ticket...

since neither have congressional experience. I'm not saying that it won't happen, but it would be very unusual.

[Carolina]

16. don't count your chickens

so soon. Sweep the primaries? I think not. Dean will win in NH, but I don't think he'll win here in SC, and Gep will take Iowa.

I actually hope we go to our convention with no clear winner, i.e. no nominee-apparent so that the convention is not just a confirmatory formality. Rather, Dean will have many delegates, Clark will have many delegates, Gep will a few delegates, and maybe Edwards or Kucinich and perhaps Kerry will have a few delegates. Then the decision will be made peacefully behind the scenes in July in Boston, and everyone will unite behind a Clark-Dean ticket which can defeat Bush.

Why do I hope this? I want a continued moving target so that there is no one Rove can single out for attack early and often. Yes, the GOP will spin this as evidence that the Dems don't know who they want, they're indecisive, yada, yada, yada ... But I'll bet they'll be quaking in their boots at the uncertainty. And all our guys can continue pounding on the administration's failures with the gravitas of still being in the running.

Remember, conventions used to be about determining the nominee not merely anointing the guy with the requisite number of delegates based on primary wins.

[WhosNext]

17. Dean is ahead in Iowa, NH, Michigan, Wisconsin et al

If Dean wins Iowa and NH, it's over for everyone else.

[billbuckhead]

19. That's democracy, 2 small mostly white states making the decision

Why should New Hampshire and Iowa decide who takes on Bush?

[WhosNext]

20. I agree

I'm just saying, if Dean wins Iowa and NH, he'll become a political steam engine that'll be hard to stop. Dean could conceivably win Iowa, NH and Michigan (due to online voting) before the end of January.

[Carolina]

22. good point

and also, neither Clinton or the Bushes (both 41 in 1988 & 43 in 2000) won NH, so I do not consider victory in NH to be a harbinger of victory throughout the pimaries.

[Nazgul35]

23. because the big states decide who wins the general election...

It's the unwritten agreement between the big states and large states....due to the electoral college, a large number of states don't matter (unless it's a close race) so during the primaries, the large states allow those small states to have their day.....

[IndianaGreen]

25. Blame the DNC, they set up the primary system!

Blame the Democratic Party for not pursuing the calls to abolish or reform the Electoral College after the 2000 Election. Blame the two-party duopoly for their opposition to proportional representation.

Blame the American political system in which power resides not in the people, as the Preamble of the Constitution said, but in trans-national corporations that are accountable to on one.

[Yupster]

31. I wish they'd have a lottery each four years

to place the states in random order for primaries. It would add inteerst and sure be a lot more fair than N H and Iowa being first two every time.

[OKNancy]

24. You need to listen to Dean

He said, and it's quoted in another post on DU, that things won't be decided until after March 2.

[WhosNext]

28. Of course he said that

Like he's gonna say "once I win Iowa and NH, I'll be tough to stop"

[evil_orange_cat]

8. anti-Dean hatred is funny... you have to admit...

LOL... Dean has brought a lot of new people into the mix, and has tapped into the hearts of a lot of people that the Democratic Party Machine has alienated over the years. Just knowing that the DNC establishment is scared of Dean makes me like him more.

I honestly think Clark is more electable and stands a better chance of beating Bush because he can legitimately tackle Bush on foreign policy and national security; but Dean would definitely clean up the DNC if he were to get elected. IMO, the Dems got soft riding Clinton's coattails and weren't prepared for the massive right wing radical movement that has assaulted the political scene.

For you Fight Club fans out there, Dean is Jack's sense of outrage towards established Washington party elites and their gross ineptitude since 2000.

I seriously don't understand Dean hatred though. I like both Clark and Dean and think either one would make a good president. The only Democratic primary candidate I don't like is Lieberman. But he's a tool and most others don't like him either.

[MIMStigator]

10. I only hate the Dean effect (losing)

and I'm sure as hell not DNC. Agree with all of your post, I like what dean has done to fire people up but it's not going to be enough to win. If the economy keeps improving it will be a * landslide unless we beat them on terrorism and Clark's the only chance.

[evil_orange_cat]

11. its really too early to tell...

... how Dean would fair in a general election. The vast majority of voters aren't paying attention yet, and I suspect many of them don't even know who Howard Dean or Wes Clark are.

I do think Clark is more electable, but I'm not so convinced Dean is a loser. There's still a lot that can happen between now and next November. ;)

[Carolina]

18. I really don't detect Dean hatred as much as Bush fear

Fear of another 4 years of this nightmare. The GOP and its fawning media cheerleaders will exploit war, terrorism and 9/11 to promote Bush as the best president in wartime. Encumbency carries considerable weight and power, and Bush's tenure as (mis)leader during this time will be used to his utmost advantage. Can't you just hear the goon squad sneering, imagine what would have happened to the US with a President Dean?

If, by contrast, Clark heads the ticket, the bastards get tongue-tied because they cannot diminish his actual war experience (34 years in the Army, seriously wounded in Vietnam, LEADING his platoon even while wounded, decorated veteran) and the fact that he has been tested on the world stage as Supreme Allied Commander of Nato. Clark's resume and experience cut right at the heart of the GOP and he can take the flag back from them.

Dean has no wartime credentials or experience on the world stage. That is his vulnerability and that is why a Dean nomination is scary.
To many of us, it means certain defeat and rachets up our Bush fear. Yes, Dean can change the DNC/DLC but Clark can win and change the country.

Clark-Dean 2004

[MIMStigator]

27. That's why I dis dean. Bush fear.

Bush fear and gullible voters

[Liberal Veteran]

2. You could have just said "Lierberman despicable" and I would agree.

Every time he opens his mouth I find another reason to despise him.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

6. Lieberman is always RIGHT..designers made a campaign poster NYT mag

on edit: made corrections brought to my attention by dcs

page 93,Sunday Magazine

"Joe Lieberman The Conservative Moderate"
"Joe Lieberman The Moderate Conservative"

his button says "Not Your Average Joe"

designed by Bonnie Siegler and Emily Oberman

[dsc]

9. It isn't his slogan

the Times chose the artist (by lot) and the artist chose the slogan. Those facts were both plainly written in the article you had to read to have seen the poster.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

12. dsc ..opps thank you and no i hadn't read the article yet...just skimmed

mag section between dinner and dessert...will read it this evening...but they sure did nail it!