The debate tonight sucked huge (insert epithet here) tonight

[slinkerwink]

The moderator, Ted Koppel, was awful, if we actually had an unbiased moderator, he wouldn't have started the debate off with the talk about the Gore endorsement. It was also nasty when he asked CMB and others when they were going to drop out.

It was also disgusting how they handed every single military question to Clark, and he couldn't get any decent domestic policy issue questions. I think the media's setting him up as a one-note guy.

Also, I'll be honest here. Dean flubbed that weird question the moderator asked him, and I hardly heard a peep out of Dean afterwards. But I have to say that his saving moment was towards the end when he criticized the moderators for framing the debate on only iraq, instead of domestic issues, and put in some parts of his stump speech which got applause from the audience.

Overall, the real winner of the debate in my view, was Dennis Kucinich.

[jumptheshadow]

1. I agree with you

I also think a couple of the question they gave to Clark were lobs.

That was a difficult theoretical question the moderator asked Dean.

[slinkerwink]

5. yes, it was, and dean should have said "never" but he was honest

[arewethereyet]

22. he was dead wrong

you do not talk about things that he feels it OK to lie about. If you are any kind of statesman you know how to do this. If you are a poor one, you say nothing at all.

Have dems learned nothing about the consequences of lying ? Geez.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

2. Here's a hint for Howard Dean

When a corporate whore like Teddy Coppel is trying to sabotage you with an asinine question like "it it ever okay to lie to the American people?" - this is how you answer.

"It's never okay to lie to the American people. Lying to the American people is an impeachable offense. If you want to vote for liars, vote for Bush. <wild applause> National security? Mr. Corporate Whore, I will never do or say anything that will put American lives in jepardy."

See how easy that is?

[hippiechick]

17. Or he could have said .... "Ask your bosses..."

... "because they do it to the American people every day by misreporting the news..."

:hippie:

[unfrigginreal]

3. Yeah, Ted really sucked tonight

Dean did ok but I thought that Kerry did best and then I would say Dennis.

[slinkerwink]

4. boooo! Down with Ted!

What a media joke he is!

[jpgpenn]

6. This Debate was very constructive!

[Kathleen04]

7. I missed the beginning,

but the rest was filled with nothing but lame questions. Instead of spending so much time discussing a bunch of the candidates' campaigns, they should have been discussing domestic issues.

[Zomby Woof]

8. We ALL agree about Koppel

I have loathed that wingnut since he started Nightline back in 1979. He has never concealed his biases all that well. I remember his stories about rock music causing antisocial behavior and other moronic advocacy pieces. He has always been an apologist for strong shows of U.S. power globally, and pro-multinational corporate policies. I think the reason some DUers said they once liked him is that they mistake his grave earnestness for intellect and fairness. Nope, he has always been openly conservative. Why Fox News hasn't grabbed him, I have no idea.

Thanks for your fair assessment. I think everyone (except Lieberman) had at least one shining moment. Dean's was when he got that dig at Fox News and outlined his stance on how to handle the Iraqi occupation. Whether I agree with it or not, it was important that he was concise and clear, and he was. Clark was so convoluted with HIS response, which smacked of Vietnam II, it lowered my already shaky estimation of him. So Kucinich and Dean had the soundest answers to the Iraq question.

I think Kucinich won just on the basis of his smackdown of Koppel. The audience support was visceral and powerful. Kucinich helped ALL of the candidates by advocating a return to the ISSUES, and not the means of media coverage. I say this objectively - stepping outside of my support for him.

Koppel, that reporter, and Lieberman are the only ones who were embarrassing, although Clark nearly was because of his maze-like answer on handling Iraq.

[frank frankly]

10. that is how it was, Zomby

right-on

[slinkerwink]

12. yes, Clark's initial answer was bad and it's to his fault

that he didn't try and change some of the other military-oriented questions into domestic issues.

[tameszu]

23. I didn't see Clark's answer to his first question

but IMHO, none of them should count (or really did), since they were stupid Koppel endorsement questions. Advantage Sharpton and DK for nailing Ted on that.

I don't know if it's Clark fault that he didn't turn military questions into domestic questions. That's what he's good at and that's why he entered the race, and no one needs to be blamed for avoiding questions anyway. And when someone asks you point blank "are loose Russian nukes a problem?" and you really think they are a problem (and they are), that's not the time to pivot the question onto education and healthcare.

The format, as usual, sucked too, even without the Koppel mayhem: Clark and Dean literally disapppeared for like a 1/2 hour at a time. Feh.

[mzmolly]

9. I disagree that Dennis won.

I think his naivete on Foreign Policy was clear when Clark contradicted him and agreed with Dean.

Dennis is an idealist, not a realist.

WE need a realistic idealist to run this nation, and that IMHO is Howard Dean. :)

[slinkerwink]

11. awwww......

:pals:

[Zomby Woof]

13. Dennis IS a realist

He has held two major elective offices, one of them as mayor of one of the largest U.S. cities - risking his career to save a public utility, and the other as the U.S. representative from a diverse district in one of the most populated states. He works the trenches on the local and national levels. You don't get any more gritty and realistic than his district and background.

His "idealism" has yielded results that benefitted the PEOPLE. I won't argue with your assessment of who "won", that is subjective, but your dismissal of Kucinich as an unrealistic dreamer is so far off as to be dismissed immediately by anyone with even a basic knowledge of politics. Plus, just for smacking down Koppel by steering the debate towards the issues, he helped Dean, Kerry, Clark, and everyone.

We need more "idealists" like Kucinich.

[slinkerwink]

14. even after dismissing Kucinich at first, he's earned my respect tonight

[beyurslf]

15. CMB won the debate.

She once again shows her intelligence and ability to articulate important facts.

DK was a close second. He actually won me over with his abortion answer. (This was one very big reason I have never supported him.)

Dean hurt himself tonight, IMO.

(Disclaimer on flame bait: I am a Dean supporter.)

[slinkerwink]

16. it's alright, but the gore story is still the big story tonight

we'll see what happens----the confederate flap was much bigger than this---we can ride it out.

[a_lil_wall_fly]

19. CMB..is always articulate..I wished that

She would have gotten more detailed information and less same rheotic.
DK did great.
Dean is like the "Great Bismark".. he has alot of firepower but slow to react...those little gnats(CMB,AS,DK) are getting to him.

[Zomby Woof]

21. I am 110% pro-choice

I am hugely pro-choice, and have gotten into some of the nastiest flamewars in the history of DU defending every woman's reproductive rights. Unconditionally.

Many pro-choice DUers refuse to support Kucinich just because of that issue. They accuse him of opportunism and pandering. Well, considering how free of opportunism and pandering his entire career is, and how he holds many other views that are at odds with the Democratic party mainstream (like his wanting to repeal NAFTA and the WTO for example), that accusation doesn't hold up.

I find it ironic that we want others to come around to our way of thinking on choice, and when someone actually DOES it, they put him down, and cast aspersions of opportunism upon it.

The bottom line is the present and the future. Congressman Kucinich voted against that ban on late-term abortions last month. A solid pro-choice vote. He has sworn as president he would appoint pro-Roe v. Wade justices. He has never gone back on his word before, and I expect he will never do so in the future. He is pro-choice now, and for good. That matters above all the hand-wringings about his motive.

His motive was concern for human rights and freedom. As he said in the debate - a woman cannot be free without reproductive rights.

So if I can overcome my objections to his past voting record based on a careful assessment of how purely consistent he keeps his word, how he ties it in to other reproductive rights and concerns, and how he proves he is open to growth, then I figure anyone can. There is so much to gain by a Kucinich presidency, so let's take it.

[tameszu]

18. Whatever the debate sucked...

Kerry would take it and, along with the polls, stick it up your, uh...

That was actually kind of funny. I was hoping he would follow it up by dropping the F-bomb on Koppel. Now *that* would have made a rocking debate.

Dean did end well; the question that he goofed was really weird. I actually thought it could have been a good question if the guy had asked for clarification or put it in some sort of context, but as it stands, it just seems very random. So random that I doubt Dean could be hurt by it, but who knows--it does seem almost like it was planted just to give * and the Repubs later some sort of opening or defense on an attack ad.

[slinkerwink]

24. ha, I'm hoping the Dean campaign are ready for this "eventual" ad by RNC

[tameszu]

20. Clark did get a softball question with the Russian nuke question

I think he obviously showed he knows his stuff with it, but I was hoping that he would really hit it out of the ballpark. Then again, it was a pretty wonky question.

Also, my friend criticized Clark for using the word "plebiscite"

People seem to have learned their lesson and mostly stopped attacking Dean, except for Lieberman...who finally, truly revealed his true colors as a Repub by using the phrase "Axis of Evil."

We were all like, WTF, "dude, he's just coming out and admitting it now!!!"