Hubble Telescope Detects Planet Formed 13 Billion Years Ago

[pmbryant]

From the NY Times: July 10 2003

Hubble Telescope Detects Planet Formed 13 Billion Years Ago

By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD


In new observations of a distant region of primitive stars, the Hubble Space Telescope has found tantalizing evidence that planets began appearing much earlier in cosmic history and therefore may be more abundant than previously suspected.

Astronomers reported today that measurements showing that a giant gaseous object, orbiting a pair of burned-out stars, is the most distant and oldest planet known in the universe. It appears to have formed 12.7 billion years ago, within a billion years of the explosive origin of the universe in the theorized Big Bang.

"What we think we have found is an example of the first generation of planets formed in the universe," said Dr. Steinn Sigurdsson of Pennsylvania State University, a member of the discovery team.

(snip)

Finding a planet in an unlikely place from the early universe, Dr. Sigurdsson said, "implies that planet formation happened very early in the universe and that planet formation processes are quite robust and efficient at making use of small amounts of heavier elements."

Dr. Alan P. Boss, an astrophysical theorist at the Carnegie Institution in Washington, called the discovery "a stunning revelation" that would prompt new studies of planetary evolution.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/10/science/space/10CND-PLAN.html?hp

[Dudley_DUright]

1. Very interesting

Good thing one of the stars went supernova and left a pulsar remnant. Otherwise this planet would never have been detected. No way to detect using the doppler shift method we use for stars in our own galaxy (like the recent discovery of a planet about the size of jupiter in a star roughly 100 Light years away. 13 billion years ago is very early in the history of the universe (depending on the number you like for the Hubble constant)!

[Rabrrrrrr]

2. Wow! Phenomenal!!

That's cool!

[I AM SPARTACUS]

20. here's a photo of what Hubble picked up...

[pmbryant]

22. LOL!

:D

[SmileyBoy]

3. God... you know I REALLY wish that in the future we could find a way...

...to look at ANYWHERE in the universe in real-time. I'm not talking about travelling past the speed of light, mind you. I'm just talking about being able to see these expanses of the universe as they occur now. 12.7 billion light-years means 12.7 billion years ago, for example. Well damn, either way, we gotta breach the speed of light SOMEHOW in our far future (assuming we haven't committed suicide by then) in order to legitimately travel space, and I think we could use wormholes. Navigate and stretch wormholes. It's all a fantasy, tho...

[Dudley_DUright]

4. On the other-hand, the "look back" time

allows astronomers to step into a sort of "time machine" and see what the early universe was like. If the speed of light were infinite, astronomy would be very different since we could only learn about the universe "now". I would not hold my breath waiting for Star Trek style FTL warp drives or Contact (Sagan) style wormholes. I am afraid for the foreseeable future we will be stuck with slower than light travel. It is certainly fun to speculate what a very advanced technological society might accomplish, but I just hope we survive as a species long enough to further explore our own solar system. One step at a time baby, one step at a time.

[leftyandproud]

6. didn't einstein prove reaching the speed of light was impossible?

cuz once you hit it, all time stops...mass becomes infinite, or something...

If you start off in front of a giant clock, then rocket away from it at the speed of light...keep looking at the second hand...It will NEVER move, since you are traveling with the light that bounced off of it...time doesn't pass...so you can't really be doing anything or moving anywhere...right?

my head hurts.

[PATRICK]

5. uh-oh

More evidence that if we are not alone we are in the diapers crowd. So where are the benvolent superior beings? I hope that doesn't mean us.

[supernova]

7. Kewel!

I wonder what that planet, or that binary star system, are doing right now?

[Rabrrrrrr]

8. Your question of "right now" becomes irrelevant

Because, truly, "right now" means 13 billion years ago, because "right now" is what we can observe, which is 13 billion years ago.

Hee hee.

I know hat you mean, but in the sense of physics, the question is not relevant.

And that's one of the things that always intrigues me, but also makes me want to pull up the covers, about physics.

[oneighty]

9. Perhaps whatever

was there so long ago is not there any more. Maybe there is nothing there NOW.
Is there such a THING as (nothing?)

180

[supernova]

12. Exactly 180

perhaps there's a black hole.

[supernova]

11. No it doesn't

become irrelevant.

Due to the rules of physics, we took a snapshot of what it looked like 13.5 billion years ago. Just b/c we can't see it, doesn't mean that star system doesn't have a present in the same sense that we do.

edit: You can also think about it in the converse. When that light left that star system, most of our solar system was just a dust disk.

[Rabrrrrrr]

13. Well, sure, it has a present

But since it is impossible for us to observe it - it doesn't matter. The only data that matters is that which we can directly observe.

[supernova]

14. This is where I have to disagree

Thinking about possibilities keeps us striving for more complex tools, better knowledge.

That's really what I was thinking about. Sure it's nice to know the real evidence, but asking "what if..." is vitally important to human development.

Today, we can only see the past of space, someday we may be able to see the present in a direct way.

[Rabrrrrrr]

15. well, now that you've put it in terms of 'what if', I agree wholeheartedly

"What if" is a wonderful question!

you hadn't phrased it that way before, so I had to go scientifically.

Now that we see that planet, but since we see it 13 billion years ago - or as many stars and other things we see from long ago - the question I always want to ask is, "Do they even exist any more?" Did they cease to exist 5 billions years ago? 10 billion years ago? has that entire galaxy now become a wasteland?

But, we won't know for billions of years, unless we develop beyond lighjt-speed travel, which, though I am well-versed and trained in physics, I think is totally possible, because the universe just holds too much weird shit to ever think that something can't be done.

[pmbryant]

18. This planet is very old, but not terribly far away: only 7200 light-years

Interesting philosophical discussion, but it's not really relevant to this particular planet. This planet is very old, 13 billion years old apparently. But it's pretty nearby, astronomically speaking. It's in a cluster that is orbiting around our own Milky Way Galaxy, and is "only" 7200 light-years away.

So we are seeing it as it looked 7200 years ago, not 13 billion years ago.

(The Earth is 4.5 billion years old but is definitely not 4.5 billion light years away! ;-) )

From the article:

The planet, more than twice as massive as Jupiter, was found in the heart of a group of extremely ancient stars, known as a globular star cluster. The M4 cluster is 7,200 light-years from Earth in the summer constellation Scorpius. The stars there are estimated to have formed almost 13 billion years ago, so early that the region is deficient in heavy elements.

For those interested, you can actually see the M4 cluster (where this planet is located) with your naked eyes from a location with very dark skies. From areas with some light-pollution, you would need binoculars to see it, but it's pretty bright, as clusters go, because it is not very far away.

:bounce:

--Peter

[supernova]

19. Oops, my bad.

:7

I will say though, that there is probably some planet somewhere that actually is 13 billion years away.

[pmbryant]

21. No doubt!

:hi:

--Peter

[KamaAina]

10. They found Strom's birthplace! Reagan's, too!!

Think about it. It is mathematically impossible for Ronnie and Strom to have been born on any other, younger planet (such as Earth). :evilgrin:

[athos1126]

16. Hahaha!!!

Now Strom can go back to his home planet, now that he's left his bodily form. That must be one shitty planet if it produced both Strom AND Reagan!

[Coffee Coyote]

17. about the same time...

That the Dean spam was first posted in GD! :D