"Most Men are Afraid of Woman"

[rene moon]

That is what my husband said to me last night at dinner. We were talking about Teresa Heinz-Kerry and women in general.

He said that most men are afraid of women for a variety of reasons and due to that, they objectified them. He admitted that he was jealous that we could bring forth life and women have the ability to bond with their children in a way a man cant.

Then he said, "It must frustrating to be a woman in our world, sometimes".

I didn't say much---I was surprised that he even brought this up.

Anyone ever have this kind of conversation with anyone?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

1. Yeah, I love it when people make sweeping generalizations about others.

Believe me, I fear men much more than I fear women.

[Bucky]

52. Amen. Having been present at the birth of my daughter...

... I can definitely say I do not envy women's ability to bring forth life. I don't know who came up with that lame notion that that is why there are misogynists in the world. There are certainly some deep seated psychological malfunctions that make some men hate women. Env about giving birth ain't one of them. I have never heard another man say "damn, if I could only push a canteloupe out of my pundendum, I'd be one happy camper."

The real reason some men hate women is that they feel frustrated and powerless in their lives and they've been conditioned to focus their anger in that direction. But the causes of such hatred are as different in each circumstance as are the men who are screwed up that way. At the root of most hatred is powerlessness, however. When you can deal with that, your ability to hate is dramatically reduced.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. I don't buy it really.

I don't think the average person in general can think of things on that level of reasoning to even get to that point.

[pmbryant]

3. There's a good point in there somewhere

I do think it's pretty clear that many men (most? I don't know about that) are afraid of powerful women willing to stand up for themselves (a la THK and Hillary Clinton, etc).

But I don't think it has to do with jealousy or bonding with children. I think it's far more simple than that.

But I really don't understand that attitude at all.

:shrug:

Peter

[jdj]

20. I think it is mother power.

I have noticed that African-American and Latina women use their mother-power really well, as well as do some hillbilly women where I am from. It's using tone of voice and the inflection and cadence to take people (men AND women) back to a time when they were the child and big mama was about to kick your ass for something, to time-travel them back to the time when Mom was 4 times as big as you and you feared her. We ALL have that psychic location in us and people who know how to push those buttons can really manipulate the people around them. Men have to leave this world of mother in adolescense and travel into the world of men, whereas women don't have to leave this world, they have to learn how to BE mothers and command this power, so I think the fear may be from men being reminded of the other world they used to live in where women were the law of the land, as they have made a psychic break from it as a rite of passage into manhood.

I don't know if any of it is around the child-bearing thing or not. Whatever it is, I have experienced it a'plenty in my life, and as an entity it is subconsious and is probably going to stay that way.

[Karenina]

65. Interesting observation.

Do you think this may contribute to patriarchal structures granting "legal ownership" of the children to men?

[Speck Tater]

4. A Syllogism...

A. Most people are afraid of things they don't understand.
B. Most men do not understand women.
C. Therefore, most men are afraid of women.

Makes perfect sense to me.

[gratuitous]

5. Not in my experience

But then, having been a feminist since the mid-1970s, and drawing most of my friends from the pool of like-minded men, I suppose we're just a bunch of Alan Alda/Phil Donahue clones.

[NewJeffCT]

6. Other than fearing my wife, I'm not really afraid of women

But, I know that many men fear the likes of Hillary or Teresa.

[Karenina]

7. Men are indeed

TERRIFIED of women. Your hubby is a GEM that he was able to articulate in such a way to you. I been turrifyin' da boyz for DECADES (started out young, chasin' 'em around with black snakes I caught in the garden) and always appreciate those who be honest enough to say what makes 'em so nervous! Sounds like you got yourself a good 'un. :bounce: :toast: :bounce:

[Speck Tater]

8. There are two kinds of men...

Those who are afraid of women and those who are afraid to admit that they are afraid of women.

[rene moon]

13. He is a wonderful man

I couldnt have asked for a better partner in life than Mr. Renemoon:)

[Centre_Left]

9. I fear rejection from women...

...but I do not resent their ability to have children. Thank goodness I won't ever have to endure that 9-months of torture.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

53. How would you know

or why would you say it's torture?

I have one child, I completely enjoyed pregnancy AND the 26 hours of labor wasn't so bad, either.

It was the taking her home part that terrified me, the other stuff was a piece of cake.

[opihimoimoi]

10. Superiority complex...they hate it when women are smarter and

more accomplished

They can't get over it.....

[LittleApple81]

11. I think THAT IS WHY RELIGIONS TRY TO PUT WOMEN IN THEIR PLACE.

The male interpretation of religion has a great proportion of their "dogma" in relegating women to being a subservient part of humanity. This, taken to extremes, is what fuels the fundamental movements (Muslim, Christian, etc.)

[redqueen]

21. Only the sky-god religions

Earth-god religions seem to acknowledge women and incorporate goddesses as equals with the gods. At least that's how it seems to me. Then again I never went to college, so...

[dpbrown]

12. Some men crave power

The drive to control power may be part of a hard-wire for survival that's left over in someone's makeup - not gender specific.

Therefore scheming to control the reproductive power, something outside of a male's direct line of control, can lead males to position themselves in relation to a female in a domineering, legalistic, or objectifying manner, depending on what the male is trained to think might work best.

If the awe of and objectification of reproductive power is part of the vestigal survival drive of males, then perhaps a similar trait in some females is to elevate the importance of the care and survival of of her child above her own.

I think both genders got similar traits, they just come out in different ways.

DPB

[B. P. R. D.]

14. He Told You What You Wanted To Hear

If he actually meant it, that's pretty pathetic.

[rene moon]

17. I didnt start the conversation

He did---and he's not pathetic, thank you. He's thoughtful and well-informed. He's a good man.

[dand]

15. I have been married 41 years and I don't fear women.

We have an agreement, she tells me what to do, and I do it.

[yellowcanine]

16. Here I thought men objectified women so they could satisfy their sexual

desires without making a committment. How stupid of me to think that.

[rene moon]

19. I thnk he meant why women are objectified all the time

He said, though he clearly enjoys looking at women, he knows part of that is to keep women "in their place". Sheesh!

[trof]

18. And vice-versa.

Or not.

[Droopy]

22. I'm not afraid of women

But when I was younger I used to be intimidated by women who I found attractive.

I grew up the only brother of three sisters, so I learned a lot about women from them.

I get along with every woman in my life and fear does not enter into the equation.

[redqueen]

23. Oh who knows what's going on in most men's minds...

Probably just stuff like 'where's the remote?', 'what's for supper?', and 'where are my shoes?'

[rene moon]

24. haha

I'm not trying to get people upset, I'm just curious about my conversation with him and wanted people's reactions. It's interesting to read, that's for sure.

[Nay]

25. I do think it has to do with "mother" power, but it still amazes me..

after all, in reality, what can we really do to 'hurt' men? It is we women who have much to fear from the random man and even from the men in our lives, yet we manage to have a less fearful take on things than a lot of men.

I know that we can psychologically hurt men, but jeez, our sisters are getting KILLED out there.

[geniph]

26. I remember seeing a study some years back

that said that what women most feared from men was physical harm, whereas what men most feared from women was ridicule - being laughed at. It explained a lot to me.

[Cybergata]

27. My husband and I...

have had this discussion. In fact his opinions on women is one of the things that I found attractive....well plus he loves cats like I do. ;-)

[rene moon]

28. That is what I found attractive about my husband too!

He is one of the few men I felt I could be myself with and not be some plaything. He's pretty cool:)

[slinkerwink]

29. I think it's because they're afraid of being replaced, or having gender

roles changed. If women can work outside the home, and have as many careers as possible, what's stopping the man from being more involved with the family? What's stopping the man from taking leave to help care for a sick kid?

[tigereye]

37. well I think the generation of men raised with more

hmmm, open attitudes do stay home with their kids, sick or no. Many of my men friends are more open to the female "role" that way. They cook, they clean, they nurture, they are open emotionally. I think that is much more common than it was when I was a kid. Men were not permitted to take on some of those gender roles, even though they may have wanted to.

[slinkerwink]

30. I find it laughable that most men are afraid of women when 1 in 4 women

are raped by their male peers, their male family members, or spouses.

[rene moon]

32. it's sad, IMHO

P.S. I love your graphic!

[slinkerwink]

41. thanks!

[tigereye]

38. well rape is about power ( or lack thereof )

and fear may be driving some of that, although there are probably myriad sad reasons ( past abuse, psychological problems, need for control,etc) for those behaviors.

[Karenina]

42. Testosterone / Estrogen

IMBALANCE? :shrug:

[tigereye]

48. it's probably multifactorial, unfortunately

[Skittles]

31. I'd say a lot of men are afraid of women

I don't know about most. I do know quite a few of them hate us - we call them creeps.

[rene moon]

33. well, he said "most"

I dont think it's most but I do agree that a lot of them are afraid. I dont hate men, I just hate our society right now. And I am doing my part to change it.

[Skittles]

34. I love men

despite all their faults they are amazing critters. I do agree society makes it hard for women and I wish more men understood it makes it very hard for them too, the way things are. Sadly, it seems things are getting worse and that women play a big part in their own exploitation.

[redqueen]

35. Amen

Women sure do bear a large share of the responsibility for the way things are. Most, actually, IMO.

[nickgutierrez]

46. I'm afraid of Skittles

She tried to kick my ass one time. :scared:

[Xipe Totec]

69. There's a Difference Between Fear and Hate

I do not hate women, but I do fear them.

I fear them because only those who we really love can hurt us. And those who I truly love are mostly women.

[cally]

36. Maybe,,,I think it's western culture

The child rearing books I read told me that boys need to separate from their mothers. They need to reject feminine influence and enter to the whole girls have cooties, women are weak, to bond with their fathers. When understanding other cultures, it's not true. I no longer am sure about any of our beliefs but I do know that much of this is cultural. Little is about inherent values of men and women but rather about what we understand is our roles.

[sangh0]

39. OMG!!

For once, I feel almost normal!!!

[redqueen]

40. LOL

heh... your sig still cracks me up, too!

[CatWoman]

44. well, we're just gonna have to work on that!!!

:D

[sangh0]

66. True, but first

you're gonna have to pull me out from under my bed

[aquart]

43. And so they should be.

They have to sleep, after all.

[wickerwoman]

45. I think it's a combination of things.

(And I'm not sure about most, but in my experience, there are a lot of men out there who are afraid of women- just look at the contempt and unjustified anger towards them riddles our society.)

1.) As other posters have pointed out- mother power and the need for boys to define their identity against an "other".

2.) This is amplified in the West by the rampant misogyny and homophobia in pop culture. When the greatest insult you can offer a man is to call him a "pussy" "cunt" "bitch" or "fag" what does that tell you about the status of women in that society? Most of the men I know are afraid of admitting that they have a lot of women friends (unless they can claim that it's a sexual relationship and therefore expendable.) I'm guessing they're afraid that feminity is contagious and if they spend too much time with women (or agree with them too much, or like the same things they do) then they must be "pussies" or "fag" or "whipped."

3.) Fear of sexual rejection and women's power to say no at any time. Just check out any DU thread on Kobe Bryant to see the sense of orgasmal entitlement beginning (depending on the man) with a.) accepting the date b.) ordering something expensive c.) going home with the guy d.) penetration. How hard is it to accept that 1.) sex is not just for you- it's for the other person too and 2.) when the other person expresses pain or discomfort, it's over. Period. No matter what happened before.

Basically, we have a culture that tells men that if you let women control you in anyway, then you are like a woman. And that is the worst thing you can possibly be. If you like what women like, think like women think, or (God helps us all) admit openly that you really like women for something beyond sex then you are immediately made an object of ridicule and contempt by your peers. In the face of that ridicule (from both men and women) who can blame men for being a little intimidated.

[SarahB]

47. They are afraid because....

They want us and we hold the power to allow them to have us. It gnaws at them I think. They want us, but sometimes they don't want to want us as much as they do. They want to please us, but at the same time are are afraid of the responsibility that becoming close to us can entail. They love our softer side, but fear getting that close and opening themselves up to that. They're envious that we can cry and be emotional sometimes when the world tells them they have to be strong. Bad experiences with the selfish creepy women of the world don't help either.

(Granted this is a generalization and I'm talking strait/hetero types, but in my long relationship experience anyway, it's darn true.)

[sir_captain]

50. As a straight guy

I think you're onto something... Being afraid doesn't necessarily have to come from misogyny or even weakness...

[SarahB]

57. I also have three boys...

I've seen your gender from the start and some of the initial twists and turns into manhood. There are some pretty lousy men in the world, but I also see what society can do to them, essentially making them ashamed of the emotions (no matter how much their mom tries to tell them it's ok to have). Anyhow, if I can at least give them a safe-haven to express them with me, maybe it'll help down the road a bit.
Yeah, there's misogynists and creeps, but to simply say that's the only cause of any gender "wars" is a bit simplistic. Too many males I deeply care about for me to do that personally.

[BiggJawn]

51. SarahBelle, you hit it pretty close to centre...

" They love our softer side, but fear getting that close and opening themselves up to that."

Women don't like men who show a "softer side". You wanna lose her respect, just let her see you cry ONCE.

" Bad experiences with the selfish creepy women of the world don't help either."

You know my ex-wives and lovers?
There are a LOT of those types out there.

[SarahB]

56. The thing is....

I think I paid for years of what ex-girlfriends did to my husband. I was the real deal- a good woman that is, yet he had to be controlling, possessive and freaked that I was going to hurt him most of the time. It was suffocating, so much so that I got to the point where I could have. I found out after years of dealing with some personal issues at least part of the cause behind it all. He finally became unafraid to share it with me when I said I wanted out. To me it's not weak for a man to cry or show vulnerability, it's sometimes necessary to grow in a relationship and understand each other. I took the blame (from him and myself) for so many things that had nothing to do with me.

Sometimes life is painful. You will meet someone someday. Just find a way to work through the past enough where you can be cautious, yes, but make sure the next one doesn't have to pay the price for mistakes they didn't make. Easier said than done because I think we all carry a certain amount of baggage with us.

Anyway....:hug:

[BiggJawn]

68. There's no "price" to be paid..

Never has been. I always went in with my heart open and my eyes shut, and got my ass stomped all over the place just the same.

You know how some women seem to have the words "Jerk Bait" flashing above them in neon? Guys do too.

The worst part is, that as I approach 50 years, the pool of available women who aren't carrying a steamer trunk of "baggage" gets smaller and smaller... I'm beginnig to think that there MUST be something wrong with a 50-y-o single straight man...

[Dastard Stepchild]

58. In the ape world...

the apes are acutely aware of the fact that they can only mate when a female wants it, so males have to be at the ready 24-7 and ply the women with attention to get into their good graces. So really, the females control the fate of all ape society. I gather that's a little nervewracking....

As for human males, I would gather that any fear a male experiences (not all males, but those that feel this fear) are reacting to the uncertainty of chaging gender roles and expectations. Subjugating women for thousands of years and then suddenly having to watch them demand center stage prolly messes with the ol' psyche a bit. Healthily adaptive men would have little problem with this, but I've met a few knuckle-draggers in my time who could easily be called "threatened" by a woman's desire for achievment and self-satisfaction outside of the context of motherhood.

[BiggJawn]

49. I ain't skeered a' no women....

I just don't trust any of you as far as I could throw you with one hand.
Doesn't mean I hate you, I just don't trust you. you'll never have all of me.

Hey, thank your sisters, they created me.

[redqueen]

61. You are aware, I hope, of how common that sentiment is

from both sexes.

If only it were easy to drop our defenses, and live freely.

[BiggJawn]

62. If only...

Ah, but one CAN "live freely", it's called solitude, or "being a cranky old hermit", if you're a man.

[redqueen]

63. As long as you're happy...

:hi:

[JVS]

64. Cranky old hermitdom forever!

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

54. Eh

I don't know about most men, as I don't know most men. I know I'm glad I married a man who is comfortable enough with himself to never fear women or feel powerless because of them or afraid of ridicule, rejection, etc.

You know who I credit for that? Yep, his mom. Strong without being overbearing or manipulative. Just quietly strong. And very supportive of him. She was a wonderful role model for him for women.

[WillyT]

55. I'm Just Afraid Of CatWoman !!!

:scared:

That's why I try to stay on her good side.

:evilgrin:

[Bruce McAuley]

59. He proposes, she disposes...

I believe most men are afraid of women, but since we're driven by testosterone and ego we have to try to control that which we're afraid of.
It seems that only when a man is past his "gonad-brain" years does he finally begin to empathize with women and their natural superiority.
Men are disposable, it only takes 3 minutes with a man for a woman to get pregnant then you send him away while you raise the child alone. Happens all the time.
Granted, it is easier to keep him around to help with the work, but most women realize he's just like one of the kids, I.E. "Men are such babies!". How many times have I heard women say that?
Personally, I feel it's only when a man accepts the fact of female superiority that he can overcome his ego and learn to ENJOY women rather than to try to conquer them. Makes for a WAY better relationship, methinks.
Be nice to women and accept them as the Queens they are, and your life will be WAY happier. Just practice saying, "Yes, my Queen" a lot and life is way smoother.
I think most women know they are the superior sex, but don't say it out loud much to protect their man's fragile ego.
I'm not pussy-whipped either, I just know a good deal when I see one.
Isn't that what being a GENTLE man is all about?
:hi:

Bruce

[Cybergata]

60. Hey Bruce

You sound like my husband, and I adore you!


:yourock: :yourock: :yourock:



:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[ProfessorGAC]

67. I'd Say He's Right

At least apropos those men who joined in on the "hammer Theresa" brigade the last couple of weeks.

Those guys do fear women with a brain, and with enough power & money to know they can say what they think.

Those kinds of people scare most men who aren't secure enough. The whole conservative platform is based upon groupthink and a need to suppress things that are a little harder to understand and accept.

So, from that perspecitve, your husband's probably right.
The Professor

[TrustingDog]

70. it's all about 'sex'.

men are so easy.

i think that thing about repopulation procreation miscreation should be about cut off now.... whoever made That rule for us should come back and make an amendment to the sperm count.

back in the pagan day, male priests used to carve out holes in the gonad area thinking they'd 'give birth', being in such envy of making life.