You're driving your car and come to a four way stop.

[cestpaspossible]

Poll question: You're driving your car and come to a four way stop.

It's the middle of the day, you are sober and rested, driving your car on a flat featureless plain, with unlimited visibility in every direction. So when you come to the four way stop you can see that there are no other cars, pedestrains, cyclists, animals or indeed, anything or anybody for at least several miles. It is more than one hundred miles to the nearest town.



Would you stop?

[VelmaD]

Easy...I stop...

look both ways, and then proceed. Never get in the habit of ignoring stop signs.

[Richardo]

1. #1. But I stop and look at all railroad crossings, too.

(Former railroad employee.)

[Dr.Phool]

7. The dumbest thing I ever saw on a railroad

Was a guy, who worked on the track gang (I'm a former Engineer) try to beat a train at a crossing on a motorcycle. He lost.

He wasn't hurt, but the bike was mangled after being drug a hundred yards under the engine.

[DrDebug]

10. Even defunct railroad crossings? n/t

[Richardo]

21. I'll slow down - but you don't always know which are abandoned or not

If the tops of the rails are rusty, maybe. If they've pulled the rails up, then OK.

[Pithlet]

45. How about grass and weeds?

There is a railroad crossing I frequently come across and the tracks are rusty and weeds and grass have grown up between the ties. I never stop for it. But, your post just got me to thinking, should I?

[Richardo]

46. Just be careful.

I stop (or at least slow down) and take a good look up and down the track before I proceed. I never assume - sometimes they can be little used spurs that only get a train very infrequently.

[Pithlet]

47. Thank you.

I never considered that.

[mark414]

2. clever

but it's not the same thing

[jobycom]

3. You must stop. All society will collapse if you run a stop sign

I saw it in Night of the Comet.

[cestpaspossible]

6. To me

it's the difference between being free and not.

If you feel compelled to follow rules even in situations where they are not needed, I don't think you are really free in your heart.

[jobycom]

9. Interesting. See, to me, if you don't pay respect to the rules

that your democracy has passed, then you are denying the right of your democracy to pass rules.

But I can see your take. Thanks for it.

[cestpaspossible]

11. So

if a law were passed mandating that we must crack open our eggs at the little end, would you feel a responsibility to follow it?

[jobycom]

14. It's an age-old question, one that killed Socrates

According to Plato, anyway, Socrates had the chance to escape his death sentence, but refused, claiming that as a citizen of Athens he couldn't just ignore the law of Athens because it worked against him for a change.

[cestpaspossible]

16. Sustantively different

because it actually mattered whether or not Socrates lived or died. Following or not following the law in that case was a matter of import with consequences for Socrates and Athens one way or another. It doesn't actually matter how you crack open your eggs, nor would it matter whether you stop at the hypothetical intersection I posed. Those are cases were the only reason to obey - is to obey.

[NoPasaran]

23. Society as a whole benefits

From having people who are in the habit of stopping at stop signs. It neither benefits nor is harmed by individuals' egg cracking habits.

[cestpaspossible]

28. That's different from the individual act.

Yes "Society as a whole benefits from having people who are in the habit of stopping at stop signs"

That is different however, from saying that society will benefit from the individual act of stopping at this remote stop sign.

Arguing for enforcing the no big end cracking ban, no doubt the LittleEnders will have mountains of evidence as to the harm to society if BigEndism is allowed.

[jobycom]

30. All irrelevant

If we each decide what laws we obey or don't obey, there are no laws.

And on Socrates, it didn't matter one little bit to the history of the world whether he died that day or twenty years later. It mattered to him. Just as, if enough people convinced our citizens that your egg law was necessary, it would be important to those citizens who passed the law. You'd still be undermining the authority of the people to pass the laws they see fit.

Obviously all this precludes that the law is valid based on the charter--the Constitution in this case. Obviously violating the charter negates the whole legitimacy of the government, anyway.

[LostinVA]

31. Exactly... it's a SAFETY law

Most traffic laws are extremely sensible, and do a real service to Americans. I warrant very, very few accidents are due to something other than someone not following a traffic law (speeding, running red light, reckless driving, etc.).

[ComerPerro]

42. My take on the stop sign (and egg)

I would stop at the stop sign. Partly out of a respect for the rules passed by our democracy. A lot of it, to me, has to do with respect for others. I stop at the stop sign because I do not have right of way. In cases where I do have right of way, I expect those who do not to show me enough respect to stop. Therefore, I must do the same if I expect society to function properly.

Now, I know that the OP said that there is no one coming from either direction, so I wouldn't be robbing anyone of right of way.

This brings me to the point you raised about the proper way to crack eggs:

I've never been issued a $138 ticket because I failed to crack an egg properly. I've never had to pay a company an extra $200 per year because of my history of improperly cracking eggs.

Local revenues run on traffic tickets. I run the stop sign, I am just putting myself at risk to be fined accordingly.

So, I figure, its better to stop.

[mark414]

12. are you being serious?

because i agree with you

at first it thought you were making fun of me for this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=3216588&mesg_id=3216588

but if you're serious, then...you must be on my side of the argument?

[cestpaspossible]

13. I'm just amazed

at how lopsided the results are, because I'd be willing to bet that in real life alot of the folks who voted that they'd come to a full stop, would actually do a 'rolling' stop if faced with the situation.

[cestpaspossible]

48. PS, when I made that comment

'rolling' stop was pulling about 5%

[cestpaspossible]

52. Is that so?

[mark414]

29. i like that

and i agree

government is supposed to be an aid for citizens, not a big brother

[txaslftist]

8. GREAT friggin' movie, man!!

[jukes]

43. GREAT FLICK!

a real scifi classic!

[ohiosmith]

4. Always stop.

When I was 12 a taxi ran a stop sign and hit me on my bike. Weeks in recovery and a bad back to this day taught me to never chance doing to some kid what was done to me.

[Worst Username Ever]

5. Hey, no cop is going to tell me what to do!

[underpants]

15. Rolling stop I live by the rolling stop

The idiots who ran Richmond and a bunch of whiny old people decided to put up stop signs every other block. Driving at a normal pace you used to be able to get from the West End THROUGH the city and out the East end in 10-15 minutes, now more like 30.

[MissMarple]

17. Stop. I try not to assume, and try not to cultivate sloppy habits.

Especially driving habits.

[uppityperson]

32. Stop, keep good driving habits automatic

Things can happen fast when driving a big killing machine so I make sure to get good habits ingrained and always do them. Yes, even stopping.

[miss_kitty]

18. I stop

Not stopping in this town is the stupidest way to be parted with $101.

[Book Lover]

19. I'd do the California Stop

Otherwise knows as rolling through at a slow pace. Make sure you hit yer brakes, kids; that flash of red has stopped one cop from writing me a ticket.

[Dover]

20. It's a choice really. We make them all the time. It's a tightrope

walk we do between individual and collective necessity. Free will vs. collective will. That is a good and potentially creative tension.

Some rules are for keeping others for breaking, and we all need to decide which is which for ourselves.....and also be willing to pay any consequences. That's a mature choice, not simply rebellion for rebellion's sake. It's all about intent.
If everyone followed ALL the rules/laws (which is the goal but never the reality) then there would be NO chance for chaos, discovery and significant change within the collective.

We have individual will which supercedes all outer superficial laws...because laws are stationary and time bound, and define the morality and necessities of a society at any given time. But all of nature is in constant flux and change, while following certain "laws" of constancy.

[Maddy McCall]

22. Ha! I'd stop, and then I'd do this.*

*DISCLAIMER: I stopped and took a photo of this sign. I did not deface it.

[TheProphetess]

24. The truth is that most of us drive on auto pilot

which means that we don't thoughtfully process every single move we make when doing a well-learned activity (like driving). So, I'm fairly sure that I'd stop because that's what I do at stop signs.

[cestpaspossible]

25. That's why

I think so few people would 'blow right through' - it just goes too much against the grain of what you do at stop signs. But I think substantially more folks would do a rolling stop than indicated by the poll. Especially if they drove through this intersection more than once in a lifetime.

[tjwmason]

26. HAHAHAHAHAHA I live in England

We'd have a roundabout (which you lot in America can't cope with), which makes the whole damn thing so much easier - if there was no traffic no need to stop.

[hfojvt]

34. would you really have a roundabout

in the middle of nowhere?
Probably a moot point. Given England's population density, there is no such thing as the isolation we have in the American west.

[cestpaspossible]

35. Yeah

that's the big unstated element of the poll. The four way stop shouldn't be there. It's a case where the law is clearly - wrong.

[hfojvt]

37. the law is not wrong, only the mentality of people who follow the

letter and ignore the intent.

[slutticus]

41. We have some roundabouts in Houston.

And yes...you are correct...we can't deal. :D

[Kat45]

50. Roundabouts? I assume those are the same as rotaries?

We have them in my part of the US and I love them. Unfortunately, a lot of people from other parts of the country come up here and they don't have a clue as to how to use them. There used to be a big one in the center of the town I live in and it was great. Then they took it out and put in intersections of too many streets, all with lights and lane restrictions; now it takes forever to get through.

BTW, my answer to the poll question is a rolling stop.

[melnjones]

53. What the hell is a roundabout?

Nope, I've never been to England, does it show?:P

[tjwmason]

54. It seems like you call them 'rotaries'

Where a bunch of roads meet and rather than a cross-roads there is a circle around which one drives until one reaches the desired exit. There is a pretty picture and an explanation of how they work from the Highway Code.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/17.htm#160

[melnjones]

56. OOH, I get it. Nope, we don't do too well with those here! nt

[DS1]

27. Hell, I even stop in the middle of the country, with no cars in sight

just in case ~the other~ guy thinking he can't see any other cars might come flying over a hill and T-bone me.

No thanks, I'd rather take the extra 10 seconds to stop.

[LostinVA]

33. Me too! I caught myself putting on my blinker in my

Apartment complex the other day. Not necessary, but at least I know I have consistent driving habits!

[warrens]

36. I'd figure it was a trap and that there was a cop somewhere nearby

[cestpaspossible]

38. nt

[bigwillq]

39. A rolling stop for me!

:hi:

[slutticus]

40. Rolling stop.

Illegal ...I know...and if I got busted I wouldn't complain about the cops.

[cestpaspossible]

44. Good point

ignoring the law is one thing... getting irate about it if you get caught is something else...

[all.of.me]

49. hey! that's an eight-sided yield sign!

get with it!

[nevergiveup]

51. In such situations........

assumption is the Mother of death. The most horrible accident I have ever seen was at an intersection in a remote rural area. It was 30 minutes or more before anyone came upon the carnage.

[fleabert]

55. hard core dudley-do-right. I would stop.

I am way too paranoid of the hidden camera, the overhead plane, the hiding cop...you name it. I do not want to get a ticket. big fat pain in the ass just to save a few seconds.

[cestpaspossible]

57. A lot of folks need more practice in answering hypothetical questions.

For example anyone who voted the way they did because "I wouldn't want to take a chance there was a cop around" or "I wouldn't want to take the chance of getting in an accident" just didn't get it. The point is what would you do when you KNOW there is no cop around and you KNOW there is no chance of getting in an accident. Would you follow the law for it's own sake?


Does the law serve you, or do you serve the law?

[curse10]

58. I stop

I probably need to do a stretch anyway- or change the cd or something