Pardon me, good sir, my opinion of rap music is that it is crap

[ZombieNixon]

/popinjay

No, really, I'm not a rap/hip-hop fan (not really sure what the distinction is), but I don't think it's all shit.

To say it's not music is ridiculous. Technically, me banging a stick on a table sixteen times and yelling YIPPEE! at the end is music, if you use a very broad definition.

Not a fan, not a hater, if it didn't exist, my life probably wouldn't be a whole lot different. :shrug:

That is all.

Edited to add :popcorn:

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. It lacks melody

so it isn't music.

[ZombieNixon]

2. Not gonna go there.

I'm out of asbestos lining.

:popcorn:

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. But you got popcorn!

[ZombieNixon]

5. So I'll watch, but not participate.

:P

:popcorn:

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Sounds like a plan then

Here, I put extra butter on these.

:popcorn:

:popcorn:

[jpgray]

3. You haven't heard a lot of rap if you say it lacks melody

And that's no definition of music. By that definition a drum isn't a musical instrument.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. I have heard enough

My husband is a drummer. And he agrees with me about rap. It's not music. It has a beat but no melody. Music must have a melody.

[jpgray]

9. By your own definition, your husband isn't a musician

Doesn't that seem strange to you? The OED calls music: "The art or science of combining vocal or instrumental sounds to produce beauty of form, harmony, melody, rhythm, expressive content, etc." By that definition, rap should certainly be included as music. (And yes, many rap songs contain melodies.)

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. Rap has no melody so it doesn't fit that definition

My husband also sings and plays other instruments, so yes, he is a musician. In fact, we had this very conversation with a couple other musician friends just yesterday. We all agreed rap ain't music.

[jpgray]

20. I'll trust the OED over you and your friends

And, pardon the expression, but your saying that rap has no melody doesn't make it so. And the OED doesn't say that music MUST have melody to it. Read it again. But even that last point is meaningless with regards to rap, because it does have melody. Do you want me to provide you with a definition of melody as well?

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Well since one of those friends is a Grammy nominated musician,

I really value his opinion.

[jpgray]

28. Sorry, but the opinion you offer just isn't consistent with the facts

Both your saying that rap has no melody, and your saying that there needs to be melody for something to be music are just not based on anything but your own personal views and lack of experience with the genre. The overwhelming majority of music experts would completely disagree with you and your nebulous friend, as the OED does.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. That's fine

We are certainly entitled to our opinions.

[jpgray]

30. My opinion appears to be supported by objective sources

Yours is supported by some "friends" you have. I think you'd be hard pressed to declare this some kind of "opinions at odds" stalemate.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. You call me a racist because I don't think rap is music?

That's as far fetched as it comes buddy. You don't know me from Adam. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just because you don't agree with mine is no reason to call it racist. That is assinine.

[alcibiades_mystery]

48. To say you don't like it is fine

To say it is not music at this specific moment in history is indeed racist.

Everyone may be entitled to their own opinion, but no one is entitled to a positive judgment of their opinion. Your opinion is racist, and without merit. You have been unable to defend it here in any way whatsoever, your only fall back being the rather pathetic "Harumph, that's just my opinion!" So what? It's still a racist opinion; that it is yours is immaterial. Notice that I didn't say that you were a racist. I personally don't think that people ARE racists. I think people's thoughts and behaviors are racist, which is a different thing altogether (that is, you can have racist thoughts and opinions and behaviors, but that doesn't make YOU a racist; you are only performing racism when you perform them).

I don't call your opinion racist simply because I don't agree with it. There are plenty of opinions I don't agree with that are NOT racist. I call it racist because you are completely unable to defend it in any way, and it is linked so closely to cultural forms that map on to race in our society. Every avenue of defense you offer has been debunked and scuttled. At that point, you stopped trying to defend it and said simply that it was your opinion, period. But where does that opinion come from? My answer is race, and the way it is organized in our society.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. Well you are completely wrong

I am not a racist and I resent the label - very much.

I am now putting YOU on ignore.

[alcibiades_mystery]

51. Learn how to read

What part of "Notice that I didn't say that you were a racist" is difficult for you?

Ignore away, in any case. First you stop all discussion at "That's just my opinion!" then you refuse discussion completely. Seems like a mighty raw nerve has been touched there, ace.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. So if I didn't like Tacos, would you call that a racist opinion?

What if I thought it was wrong to eat corned beef? Would you assume I had a racist opinion about the Irish? Chinese food is awful - I guess that means I hate the Chinese too. And that Japanese music - it really sucks so that means I have a racist opinion about the Japanese too, eh?

A racist opinion comes from a racist person. Your little statement absolving me does not excuse you from pulling the race card into this discussion. No, you aren't getting off that easy.

This was a friendly and fun discussion until you brought up the racist label. What a piss poor way to argue. You bet you hit a nerve. A big one. Do you pull the race card every time someone says something you don't agree with or does there have to be an ethnic connection? :grr:

[alcibiades_mystery]

54. If you said Chinese food wasn't FOOD

Then that would be fucking racist, get it, Charlie? You can't even figure out your own argument. What an incoherent jumble of nonsenses. If you don't like rap, that's fine. If you think it's not music, in thios day and age, then that is a fucking racist opinion, pure and simple.

And if you think disparaging other cultural forms is a fucking fun discussion, then you're the one with the problem.

What happened to ignore? You didn't understand that either?

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. How important is it?

Sorry I ain't googling nothing for this debate. :)

[ghostsofgiants]

26. The fact that you say rap has no melody just proves your ignorance.

I'd tell you to quit while you're ahead, but you're very very far behind.

[name not needed]

50. Have fun fighting against the dictionary

[flvegan]

11. Then hubby should check out the Beastie Boys

all of it...from 1986 (when then went into hip hop) through 2005 ("To the Five Boroughs") and then rethink that generalized position.

[ghostsofgiants]

13. Or Sweatshop Union, or Mos Def, or Aesop Rock, or Busdriver, or The Roots

I could go on, but I'm getting kind of sick of wasting my time on ignorant bullshit.

[flvegan]

15. Yup, yup, yup, don't know Busdriver, yup.

Gotta go Bearshare Busdriver. Thanks!

Shit, 311 has more melody and musical talent (as far as "hip hop" goes) than 99% of the shit on radio.

[ghostsofgiants]

16. I recommend "Imaginary Places" by Busdrive. Good stuff.

From his "Temporary Forever" album.

[flvegan]

17. And as usual, on a primate1 recommendation

I immediately take pen to pad and make notes. Thanks!

[ghostsofgiants]

18. Always glad to spread the musical love.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

21. Preach it, primate1!

:toast:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

23. Where have you heard it? On the radio and MTV?

Because they play the crappy stuff, not the good stuff.

[mokawanis]

14. of course rap is music

I agree. There's rap music out there has a melody. TONS of it! And whoever made the rule that a melody must exist for something to be defined as music is just plain wrong. Anyone who says rap doesn't have melody or that rap isn't music hasn't heard very much rap.

[opiate69]

57. Drums are all tuned to different pitches, so

yes, when played correctly, they produce melody.

[ghostsofgiants]

12. It lacks facts, so it isn't a valid criticism.

[RandomKoolzip]

44. John Cage lacked melody.

Are you sure you want to use that reason (lack of melody) as a yardstick for whether something is or isn't "music?"

[TroubleMan]

56. What are you talking about??? A LARGE MAJORITY OF RAP SONGS HAVE MELODY.

In fact, one of the my favorite hip hop songs when I was a kid was "My Melody" by Eric B & Rakim.

You're solely basing your opinion off the crap they play on the radio, which is not representative of the majority of hip hop. A lot of hip hop includes live instruments like horns, string instruments, and woodwinds. Also, even when live instruments aren't used, they sample a melody or create their own electronically.

[FuzzySlippers]

7. /popinjay

:rofl:

[ZombieNixon]

10. Thank you, thank you, I also do birthdays and bar mitzvahs

:rimshot:

[Crazy Guggenheim]

24. I know. It seems it's "music" for people for can't sing or write their own

music. :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[ZombieNixon]

25. I used to think that.

Now, I just don't care enough.

:shrug:

:popcorn:

[Crazy Guggenheim]

27. I could care less about it too.

:popcorn: :popcorn:

[ghostsofgiants]

31. Ugh...

Why do I keep clicking on this thread?

[ZombieNixon]

32. I don't know. I'm getting tired of it, and I started the damn thing!

:hi:

[ghostsofgiants]

33. You want to bring out the ignorant motherfuckers on this site,...

A thread about hip-hop is a damn fine way to do it, in my experience.

[ZombieNixon]

34. Yeah, I've noticed that.

The rap/hip-hop threads seem to travel in packs.

BTW, maybe you can illuminate for me the actual distiction between "rap" and "hip-hop." It's something I've never understood. :shrug:

[ghostsofgiants]

38. In the most basic terms...

Rap is the music, hip-hop is the culture (encompassing what they like to call the four elements: rap music, DJing , breakdancing, and graffiti art). But I usually distinguish between rap music and hip-hop music based on how true the artist is to the culture. Guns, bling and hoes? Rap music. Cultural and social conscience, etc.? Hip-hop music.

It can operate on a continuum, though, I guess. In some ways it's like the distinction between punk, post-punk and new wave back in the day, I would say.

[ZombieNixon]

39. Thank you.

:thumbsup:

[bridgit]

36. there's no crap like rap...

[Crazy Guggenheim]

37. Most of it is sexist ............. Some homophobia thrown in ........

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[ghostsofgiants]

40. ...

x(

[patcox2]

42. Don't forget the violence!

And the glorification of crime and substance abuse! All the wonderful aspects of what I have just learned make up the "culture" (interesting use of that word) of hip-hop.

[GirlinContempt]

55. Did you leave out a sarcasm tag?

[Bridget Burke]

43. Rhythm is more important than melody in Rap/Hip-Hop

Although melody can be found. And lyrics are important; not all of them are sexist & violent. (Gosh, remember the groovy hippy days of "Under My Thumb" & "Fighting in the Street"?)

John Nova Lomax is Music Editor of the Houston Press. He's been enlightening us old hippies about our town's newer music. But he's got a unique historical angle:

On Sunday, April 17, the centerpiece story in the Arts and Entertainment section of The New York Times was a story about how, via the Slim Thug/Mike Jones/Paul Wall hit single "Still Tippin'," Houston's homegrown screw music was poised to take over the hip-hop nation. Screw -- the slowed-down hip-hop invented by DJ Screw as music for people to enjoy while high on codeine cough syrup -- was presented as something new, weird and uniquely Houstonian.

All of which it indubitably is -- at least for hip-hop. But it's mostly forgotten today that Screw was really the second Houston codeine aficionado to revolutionize a local scene. Back in the late '60s and early '70s, Townes Van Zandt turned Houston's folk and country/Americana music on its head, thanks in no small part to his appreciation for the drug that is today called lean.

I told former Houstonian and Texas songwriting legend Guy Clark about screw music -- which he had never heard of -- and here is what he had to say: "Some things never change. You can always count on Houston's codeine heads."

http://houstonpress.com/Issues/2005-05-05/music/racket.html

Hey--if a genre is not your cup of tea, that's fine. But why claim that it's NOT MUSIC?

[Guy Fawkes]

52. Check this out...

if you still hate rap after listening to these two, then... I'll do something awesome.

www.mchawking.com
www.frontalot.com <- check out "Special Delivery" and "I Heart Fags"

[BigMcLargehuge]

58. Locked

I'm MC Terl and I'm here to say
if you don't like rap, well, that's okay
personally I can't stand folk-a
but I'll rape your Earth for authentic Polka



Big McLargehuge
DU Moderator (and keeper of the bling)