Porn. I would post this in GD, but I don't have that much of a

[Strong Atheist]

Poll question: Porn. I would post this in GD, but I don't have that much of a

flame/deathwish today (sorta mellow today).

I can tell ya, as a male, of all the males I have gotten to know in my life (relatives, friends), almost ALL have had some type of porn collection... I have even heard stories from friends about how their fathers had some type of porn, if only a playboy subscription... I personally have to wonder about the ones who don't ... just sayin' ...

I have also known a few (but much smaller) number of women willing to admit to be interested in porn, though a larger number who are willing to discus mens buts and such; especially around other women...

Anyway, on to the poll!


:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

:hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide:

[Droopy]

1. I don't have a porn collection

Unless you include having a few nudie pics on your computer a collection. I do, however, vist porn web sites occasionally. I voted for number 1 although I'm not too sure about porn being healthy. A lot of people become addicted to porn and end up running huge credit card bills from viewing it on their computer. I think they actually have sex addicts anonymous now. I guess it's kind of like alcohol. A couple of beers a day will keep your prostate healthy. A twelve pack a day will ruin your health.

[Strong Atheist]

3. Ah, the moderation argument. That is fine. I am a hedonist,

on the other hand, and think life should be enjoyed, so I am not very moderate in my enjoyments... which I guess is why I can stand to lose a little weight!

[Droopy]

5. Chug 'em down then

It's a free country (I think).

[khashka]

34. Moderation is for monks

Excess in everything!

To quote Robert A. Heinlein.

How come nobody ever moderates their moderation?

:evilgrin:

Khash.

[Strong Atheist]

37. Lol! Liked the older Heinlein. Then he got strange, or

someone took over his writing... happened in the middle of a book, too... Stranger in a Strange Land, where, strangely enough, Heinlein got strange...:rofl:

[khashka]

46. There have been a few flame wars about that subject

in various forums!

I like later Heinlein when he quit writing novels and started lecturing on sex, politics, etc. Back to his roots :) Every read "We The Living"? His first (unpublished) novel? Nothing but a series of lectures held together by an almost nonexistent plot?

Still, the incest thang that he become obsessed with after "Time Enough Love"? Ick. I get what he's saying... but really! By the end when he wrote "To Sail Beyond The Sunset".... well, excuse me? The whole plot is "Which family member will Maureen fuck next?"

Still RAH was RAH....
And he was major cool. He championed sex, personal responsibilty and intelligence and women. He later was cool on homosexuality. He detested racism and anti-Semitism at a time when those things were perfectly normal and acceptable.
He's often been accused of being a fascist - but he supported both free enterprise and socialism. And he believed that whores should be respected.

In truth, whatever I have grown to become.... much I owe to him and his wife Virginia.


Khash, one of Heinlein's Children.

[Strong Atheist]

49. "In truth, whatever I have grown to become"

much I owe to him and his wife Virginia.


Khash, one of Heinlein's Children

Don't understand, but that is ok., don't need to. I am the way I am partially because I read a lot of Sci-Fi and fantasy starting young... maybe that is what you meant...

[khashka]

57. Ok let me explain...

In the latter days, Bob and Ginny worked together. He wrote the books, she did everything else. Ginny was Bob's third and last wife. Nobody knows anything about the first. It was when he was in the Naval Academy and it lasted less than a year. His second wife and he were nudists and had a VERY open relationship - in the 1930's etc. They were VERY open about it. Since his primary source of income was writing children's books, he eventually rejected that approach - full disclosure can cut deeply into your paycheck.

Then he met Ginny..... and although they were very private, he espoused their philosphy in his writing.

But I read Bob's books at an early age and absorbed a lot of his (and Ginny's) philosophy. So much of what I believe goes back to them.

After Bob's death, Ginny referred to people like me as Heinlein's Children. Young people that they taught and influenced as a parent would teach and try to influence a child.


So that's what I mean.

Khash.

[Strong Atheist]

66. Ah. Thanks. nt.

[Warren DeMontague]

97. Although I read a lot of Heinlein as a kid & he opened some doors for me,

I'd have to say that RAW has affected my mind and my thinking even more than RAH.

As in, Robert Anton Wilson.

[Jamastiene]

99. I resemble that remark.

If they are going to work us that hard, then they oughta let us play just as hard as we work. Fuck moderation. I'd rather wake up nekkid and still drunk with some really kinky shit on my computer screen, then do it all over again. :evilgrin:

[bif]

81. Mark Twain quote...

Too much of anything is bad. Too much whiskey is just about right!

[immoderate]

2. There are those who say that porn is desensitising...

To those I say poppycock and fiddlefaddle!

Stands to reason those folks would get selected out of the species, no?

--IMM

[Strong Atheist]

4. I tend to agree, but you might attract flames from some quarters

for that view...:hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide:

[immoderate]

6. Only from those who hate logic.

I look at porn when friends send it to me. I don't go out of my way...well, I don't have to.

Good thread.

--IMM

[Strong Atheist]

7. Thanks. I may post it in GD

:scared:

some day when I am feeling more adventurous... or more flame-resistant...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. i love porn but...

there are people in the sex industry who do take advantage of young girls and their naivette...

i would like to raise the legal age where one can be in porn to 25-27

with that said i think adult women have a right to do what they want with their bodies...and its not for me to second guess their judgement

[Strong Atheist]

13. Hi! We agree on much, here and elsewhere...

except the legal age part... I think it should be uniform for the whole country for EVERY topic (draft, drinking, etc.)...

BTW, Congrats on citizenship! Though I do not know if it is the best time to be coming, with B* and company...:scared:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. i have been living in nYC for the last 9 years...so the whole bush thingq

i have already had to endure

i think making a decision to drink is in no way as monumental as deciding to have sex for money. therefore the consent age of these things should not be the same. also it puts barriers to how many young girls are duped/tricked into porn

[GirlinContempt]

25. "i would like to raise the legal age where one can be in porn to 25-27"

I dunno, I think that if I can argue it's my body I have control over it so I can have an abortion, the same stands for taking off my clothes on camera.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

26. abortion is a medical issue

taking off your clothes for the camera isnt a medical decision though....i just think a lot of times 18 year old are just easier to take advantage of.

[GirlinContempt]

32. One could argue then that an 18 year old

shouldn't be able to determine another entities right to life, if they can't determine their own willingness to act in porn.

My body. My choice.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

33. yes your body your choice....but are you ok then with 14 years old

going into porn? 18 is just an arbirtary number..

[asthmaticeog]

35. 18 is the legal age of majority.

Maybe it *is* arbitrarily arrived-at, but unless we want to have standardized maturity tests for legal majority, an arbitrary number works just fine.

And asking if it's OK for 14-year-olds is just the height of stupid trolling, and irrelevant to the discussion.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

38. an arbitrary number works just fine.

so why doesnt my arbitrary number of 25, work just fine?

on edit: its hardly trolling to see where one thinks the limits for age restriction can be drawn.

:eyes:

[GirlinContempt]

41. Because, clearly,

since we HAVE to pick an arbitrary number for adulthood, we do. It works because we have to have SOME sort of line of definition that is functional. It ceases to be so when you change numbers for certain things. Part of what we DO is create laws that protect the most people they possibly can, and then deal with aberrations as they come, it's the best way humans have found to deal with regulating millions of people at a time. When you start saying "You're an adult at x age, but you can't do this until x age" it casts the whole system into question, especially about BIGGER issues that have more far reaching consequences.
If you think EVERYTHING should be upped to 25, I'd question your judgment, but that isn't the same as trying to pick and choose things that deserve a different age limit beyond the standard adult one.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

50. not all choices have the same weight and importance

[GirlinContempt]

52. You're right, not all of them do.

Which is what I'm saying too. As soon as you start going above and beyond adult for stuff like this, you call other things into question. Things that are weightier than having nudie pics taken.
Thanks for agreeing.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

56. yes nudie pics sure...there are much bigger issues

but having sex in front of a camera for money...its kind of a big deal for most people

[GirlinContempt]

59. Ok, so let me get this straight.

YOU PERSONALLY think that having sex in front of a camera is a 'big deal' and believe many people think this. Because this is your opinion, you think the laws should be changed to reflect this. Which would mean redefining contract law, redefining societies concept of adulthood in a legal sense, and who knows what else. But this is ok, because YOU feel this is a weighty issue.

However, on issues that also have to do with control over your own body (IE abortion) you don't see how this ties in? That if you aren't old enough to use your body in a sexual way for a camera, that can be extrapolated into you aren't old enough to make OTHER choices about your own body? You don't see how this calls into question our lines of adulthood in the eyes of the law and undermines the entire idea of even having a concept of minor/adult?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

63. i was asked MY OPINION on porn

and i gave it, you can disagree with it...but that doesnt necessarily mean you are right or that i am..or even that societal laws governing porn and abortion is right.

[GirlinContempt]

64. Yeah, you were asked for your opinion

that doesn't mean people can't question it. Especially when your opinion is we should redefine societies concepts of adulthood because YOU have an opinion.

This is a message board. For discussion of opinion. Not a blog.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

70. if someone's opinion didnt change society we would never have any

societal change...

so why do we have to change because of your opinion is a really meaningless argument...you dont have to change and neither does society....its just my belief that there would be fewer girls who could be manipulated in the porn industry if they were just a bit older. thats all.

[GirlinContempt]

71. Yeah,

you keep missing the point, and I dunno how much clearer I can be.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

73. i dont see porn and abortion quite the same way.

sorry. i just dont. nothing you can say will change that. different issues. different rights.

[GirlinContempt]

76. Different issues, yes.

But they both boil down to YOUR right to do what YOU want with YOUR body. And I'd love to hear another take on it, cause I can't think of one.

[Warren DeMontague]

85. Sure. But you might acknowledge that there's a similarity in some

of the arguments used to 'protect' women from making those choices- for themselves.


Try filling in the blanks:

(blank) hurts women.

Women aren't really capable of consenting to (blank). When they participate in (blank), they're really being victimized by the (blank) industry.

The women who do participate in (blank) are emotionally immature, taken advantage of, not morally capable of determining for themselves what (blank) involves, and by definition not mentally competent to make decisions about their own bodies when it comes to (blank).


First, try "porn".
Then, try "abortion".

[asthmaticeog]

45. Standardization.

That's a laughably dumb question and you should KNOW better. Majority is majority, period. If one has the legal right to enter into a contract, it's the right to enter into any contract, including one to perfomance-fuck someone on video in exchange for payment. Should the ENTIRE age of majority be made 25? Look, I agree that 18 year olds who are new to majority can be and are wildly taken advantage of, but a) student loans are a much bigger social problem vis 18yos being conned than porn and b) 18 is a reasonable line to draw, as in our culture enough of us can fucking take care of ourselves by that age. Hell, I think people shouldn't even go to college until they're 24 or so and have been in the real world for awhile, but you said it should be a LAW. Which it plainly should not.

[IntravenousDemilo]

83. 25 as an arbitrary age doesn't work (for me) because

people who watch pornos want to see attractive people, people in their early 20s are presumably better looking than those in their late 20s. I mean, it stands to reason. Kurt Vonnegut was right when he admonished convocating university graduates (and I'm paraphrasing here) to keep in mind that they're better looking now than they'll ever be, so they should take advantage of the fact and glory in it. When I was at university, I got by without student loans, partly through scholaships, partly by working as a History TA, and partly by modelling for art classes, three times a week, three hours a day, as often as not nude. I wish I'd had sexy photos taken of me when I was in my early 20s, when I was actually pretty hot, so I could say, "See, that's what I used to look like. Not too shabby, eh?" Now, however, I'm in my late 40s, 25 lb heavier, with an unfortunately high hairline. It's not so hot, and neither am I now.

[Nikia]

92. Why wouldn't women in their late twenties be attractive?

I'm in 28 and am more hour glass shaped than I was when I was 19. Since I started using moisturer a couple of years ago, my skin doesn't look bad at all. I still get carded for 18.
Some porn actresses are in their late twenties or even older as are many mainstream actresses who are considred attractive. People who make appearance part of their career invest in skin care products and keep their bodies in good shape.
I don't see why raising the age would necessarily make the performers less attractive.

[IntravenousDemilo]

95. You're probably an exception.

Exceptional people do exist after all. I'm not saying that the rule is "once you hit 25 you get ugly", but it's only reasonable to assume that you are likely tol find more attractive people between 20 and 25 than between 25 and 30; even teeny, tiny ravages of age are still ravages, and they're cumulative. Barring illness, one doesn't suddenly develop crows' feet at age 40.

[Jamastiene]

100. It's 16 in NC. n/t

[GirlinContempt]

106. No, it isn't.

That's the age of consent. The age of majority is different.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_majority

[GirlinContempt]

36. They're all arbitrary numbers

but when you start claiming that people are too young to act in a porno movie, or pose for nudie pictures, it opens up a whole new can of worms. Arbitrary numbers only work when they're at least a standard. Thats why the American drinking laws make no sense to me. Here it's 18 (19 in a couple of provinces) for everything, period. I think when you start saying "Well, you can have sex, you can get married, you can drink, you can vote, but you can't pose for nudie pictures" you call all those other things into question. Especially on issues about your rights to your own body.

[Strong Atheist]

42. Agreed. See My post #13. I think "legal age" should be the

same for everything age related ...

[blondeatlast]

47. I voted "other" and you beat me to the explanation.

I'd lower the age of "consent" in this case to 21, however.

[TroubleMan]

55. If you change the age to 25 (or more), you create an underground market

for it - which in turn leads to worse exploitation.

Similar to the war on drugs....you create a profitable business for the criminal element. If it's legal, at least we can keep some type of regulation on it (like STD tests, ect).

[philosophie_en_rose]

9. Some Porn is degrading. Some Porn isn't.

Some porn is about empowerment or art - like the Suicide Girls. But, a lot of porn is the result of exploitation and degradation of women.

[twenty2strings]

10. Porn is boooooring.....

Look daddy,look mommy,see how nasty I am. JEEZ!:eyes:

[philosophie_en_rose]

12. as sexy as a gynecological exam...

you're absolutely right about that.

[IntravenousDemilo]

84. Erica Jong said:

"My reaction to porn films is as follows: After the first ten minutes, I want to go home and screw. After the first 20 minutes, I never want to screw again as long as I live."

Something like that?

[Strong Atheist]

14. Welcome to D.U.!

:toast:

[YankeyMCC]

11. Perfectly normal however...

it is an industry that can easily lead to exploitation and harm of the workers. No different from any other industry but in degree and thus it does need strong regulation in terms of protecting those that choose to make a living that way.

As far as desensitizing...I don't buy that porn contributes harmfully in this way any more than violence in other media does...it's less harmful in my view because what is it desensitizing us to? Taboos about sex? Doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.

Keep in mind I don't put "snuff" or "rape" films or stories in with what I call porn. When I think of porn I consider it depicting consensual sex between adults (and maybe a donkey or two...just kidding). Some might be in bad taste (ok, ok maybe a lot) and some might be degrading to women (or men in some cases) but so can main stream movies and stories. The rape, snuff type things are examples of violence and that I object to.

I am male so perhaps that biases me somehow but I'm doing the best I can : )

[Strong Atheist]

15. We agree on all, and I would go for more regulation ... nt.

[khashka]

31. Well a couple thangs

I don't want a flame war.... but

1) There has never been any kind of real snuff film. There was a (really crappy) horror film that started the whole urban legend. (I suppose it might be concievable - but it is the sort of thing that would be available only within a circle of sickos. I have never seen evidence of any such thing being commercially available, even on the black market.)

2) Rape. It's a fantasy of many people and there are "rape films". But this is fantasy, not reality. And such storylines rarely depict the brutality of rape. As a rape survivor myself, I know this. I also know I find such depictions exciting - because of that loss of control. "I'm not doing this it's being done to me, I'm not responsible." It's a hard hurdle to jump. But I worked in the industry and played a couple rape scenes (with me as the victim). It's more about power dynamics than real rape. I can see why it might make your skin crawl, though. I can't say I always feel comfortable with it either. However, such stuff is VERY rare.

But, that flamebait aside, let's go on to mainstream porn. What do you define as degrading? I'm not trying to start an argument - I'm really interested. The degrading argument has been used a lot by a lot of different people. I was just wondering how you define it. Like I said - no fight - just a discussion.

Khash.

[Strong Atheist]

40. I thought "faces of death" was supposed to real, not that I had the

slightest interest in seeing any of them...:scared:

[khashka]

51. I saw it

It's disturbing, stupid, occasionally funny. But mostly boring.

It's clips from other stuff. Car crashes, autopsies, animals being slaughtered.

But "snuff film" has a distinct meaning: Killing someone for the sexual pleasure of those watching. Think "Videodrome", torturing and murdering a woman ( funny how it's always a woman :sarcasm:) for the sexual pleasure of those who are watching. No such thing. Sure, serial killers sometimes videotape/photograph what they do.... but that's for their own twisted little psyches. The "snuff film" is an urban legend.


Khash.

[Strong Atheist]

53. Ah. Ok, if you say so about the urban legend. I wouldn't know;

not my thing. Did not like "Videodrome"; VERY disturbing ...

[khashka]

60. Yeah Videodrome

freaks me out too.

Watching Debbie Harry burn her breast with a cigarette makes me wanna puke.

Never mind that that's sort of thing I do just for fun on myself. But just watching someone else do it.... Well, Cronenburg has some 'splainin' to do!

Khash.

[Strong Atheist]

65. I did not like all the surreal stuff, and did not like the end. I like

happy endings; if I wanted unhappy endings I would watch the news...

[Jamastiene]

101. I didn't particularly like watching her do that either.

Not my sort of thing, anyhow, but then again, I do so love Deborah Harry's milky, creamy, supple, sexy skin and hated seeing it being burned even knowing it was special effects.

[IntravenousDemilo]

87. Those videos of terrorist kidnappers sawing the heads off their victims,

would those count as snuff movies in a way, or would they not, because they weren't done for the sexual pleasure of those watching? (Of course, there are probably some sick fucks out there who'd beat off to them, but Michael Savage and his followers aren't like most people.)

[bettyellen]

79. i had a friend who worked vice squad in nyc, and she said they had seen

a couple of genuine snuff films. this was in the eightites, before video was digital. supposedly it came from mob busts, and they believed it to be real. have no idea of what came of that, but they don't tend to publicize stuff like that unless there is a bust.

[khashka]

82. I'm sorry, but this is one of my few areas of expertise

There have never been any proven snuff films. There have been a handful of pseudo snuff films - but on investigation the "snuffed" women were physically fine. No one got killed. But still, that ain't mainstream porn.

But for the most part, it's pure urban legend. I dare you to go to the nearest big city, go to the nearest porn store/theatre and find anything that even resembles "snuff".

I'm sure your friend is an honourable and honest person. And working vice as a woman? I'd rather have my toenails pulled out with pliers - tough job for a woman. (I'm not being sexist - but vice for a woman can put her in a lot more danger than a man.)


I think you are buying a deal of goods, here, bettyellen. I don't doubt your friends sincerity... at all.

But cops and sexual minorities..... not a good mix. A lot of sadomasochistic porn gets classified as "sexual assault" or even "snuff". Look, if I let some guy whip me senseless and it gets filmed.... snuff pic! Never mind that I begged him to beat me senseless and could at any time have just said "stop". And when I pass out on film - snuff film! The problem with cops, vice cops especially, is that they don't get it. They have little or no training in alternative forms of sexuality. So they see violence where there isn't any.


If your friend is right (hell, I don't know everything) ask her for one prosecution that lead to conviction on snuff films. Or one single piece of evidence that was obtained that could even lead to even the weakest prosecution....

On edit: Sorry Bettyellen. On rereading that sounds a little strident and angry. Didn't mean to come across that way :)
Khash.

[bettyellen]

91. i have no idea what happened to her, and i sincerely doubt anything

happened with the tapes, because we probably both would have heard of it, right? they tend not to publicize investigations that are total failures. all i recall her saying before i had heard enough is that she said they got them from a mobbed up operation being raided (not a video store) , the quality was really really bad, could not ID the woman, they didn't believe there were special effects, and it was damned bloody. they were pretty certain the woman had been badly mutilated with a knife at the very least. i have no idea if there was sex on the tape, i don't recall that there was. they had no idea if they were intended for distribution at all. my friend used to go to the helllfire and other undground s+m clubs and found it all pretty amusing, so i don;t think she was as naive as you imagine. that said i think she said two tapes, so two in the last twnety years isn't exactly an epidemic of snuff either, nor is it mainstream, it certainly wasn't a video for rent on a shelf.
my brother (also a cop) is as vanilla as they come, but he's impossible to shock -he has seen it all in his years on the force. even your jaw would probably drop at some of the things he's described to me. a lot of really disturbing shit does not make it into the papers, but cops show and tell each other the worst of it. anything that happens behind closed doors wouldn't get to the press unless there's a prosecution. or some dumb cop gets drunk with jay mcinerney and next thing you know, it's in a novel.
as for my old friend, it's been many years, but i seriously doubt she lasted long on the force, as a very honest, mouthy black woman, she wasn't so popular with the guys. i hope she moved down south like she was planning to.
wasn't this thread about porno? i have no clue how we got on this tangent. apples and orange. LOL.

[IntravenousDemilo]

86. Your using the word "conceivable" reminded me of a Spike Milligan line:

"I think condoms should be used on every conceivable occasion." I sure do miss Spike...

[In_The_Wind]

17. Interesting poll.

[Strong Atheist]

18. Well, there are flame wars on this subject in GD occasionally,

including yesterday...

I have been interested in the female body since I was about eight. I have quite the libido, and thus like porn... BUT I know it upsets many women...

[In_The_Wind]

19. I know quite a few men who don't care for being objectified.

And just as many who say they do. It's just a matter of personal taste.

[Strong Atheist]

20. I could not tell what your "interesting poll" meant, so I am trying to

be diplomatic...

BUT...

I wish we lived in a clothing free/optional society....

I don't believe in evil the way other people do, but I think clothes are evil...

[In_The_Wind]

21. I'm not!

There is a time and place to be sky clad. I don't see anything wrong with it but I do object to nudity at times.

[khashka]

22. Interesting scientific study....

They gave apes tokens they could use to "buy" either fruit/fruit juice or be allowed to look at photographs of "high status" apes. (Not just from their own troop - but from troops they had no experience with). And guess what? They preffered the pix!

In the light of the popularity of porn (multi-billion dollar industry in the US alone) and the "cult of celebrity", it's very telling......

The difference between men and porn and women and porn isn't that women are immune to enjoying it. But so little of it is actually geared toward women. That's changing, slowly. To make broad generalizations (which mean they don't apply to everyone) - men wanna get right down to it, where as women prefer that there be a storyline, a reason why these people end up having. (Read a few romance novels - sometimes called "women's porn" - they can get pretty raunchy and explicit, but there is a reason why these things take place.)

As more women become producers and directors of porn, it will appeal to more women. Since it will address their interests more accurately.

The other disconnect. Men and women (not always but still often true) approach sex differently. An obvious example: some woman takes her top off and shows her tits. Most men will have their eyes glued on her, thinking "More! More! I want some of that!". Some guy pulls his dick out - women tend to be either offended or amused but it rarely turns 'em on if it's some stranger on the beach.


Then again.... I've said this before. What turns us on can often have nothing to do with what we actually want or would do. Lesbians/ straight women who only like gay male porn. Gay men who only like straight porn or lesbian porn. Straight men who get off on gay male porn but even the thought of holding hands with another guy makes them feel icky. Totally vanilla types who get off on S/m porn. Sex is so much more complicated than we assume......

But in the end, porn can be a good thang. (Note: can not is). Sex is so taboo in so many ways that people have some silly hang ups about it. A lot of women (and many men) wonder what they look like in the throws of passion - "if I let go, will I still be attractive?" - porn can help alleviate that anxiety (and a whole host of others). I think we don't need to get rid of porn (we can't anyway), we need good porn instead.

Khash.

[Strong Atheist]

24. "The differences between men and women on porn" Humor:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5430343841227974645

[In_The_Wind]

58. Do you have any idea just how long it takes to open that link on dial-up?

68 minutes

[Strong Atheist]

67. Sorry. Will warn next time. Have cable or DSL everywhere I post.

Sorry!

[In_The_Wind]

68. It Was Funny !!!

My speakers aren't connected to my computer that's on cable.

[Strong Atheist]

69. Oh! Another babe courtesy of Joan_Alpern! Thanks!

Edited: I like sparkly, the voice of the woman in the video. She is a good singer, and portrays innocence well ...

[realisticphish]

39. Great post! nt

[miss_american_pie]

23. Other

In a perfect world, I would have chosen the "porn is normal/healthy" option.

[LaurenG]

27. I don't like porn

Everytime I've ever watched it it plays over and over in my head for hours. I just want a normal relationship with a normal man. Not some John Holmes running around in my head scaring the shit out of me with his big battleship. I don't need it to help make me feel anything. I can imagine it and work it out with someone without the movie.

I don't care or mind if others like it, it's just not for me.:)

[Strong Atheist]

29. "Live and let live". Cool. nt.

[DS1]

28. I'd write mor

bt tht wld slw dwn my dl

[Strong Atheist]

30. Lol! This is one of the few areas where I multitask (I am

pretty linear normally, can only handle one thing at a time... but for D.U. and downloading .......... other things, I can multitask).

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

43. Somebody is going to trip on this thread very, very, soon.

At sunset, to be exact.

[Strong Atheist]

44. ? Please explain. As usual, I don't understand....

does this mean a mod is coming then, or that someone who will get upset is coming then, or that Cthulu is coming then? What????

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

48. Options 2 and 3 are correct. See your inbox one minute from now. -nt

[wildhorses]

54. imagination is unreal...

do not need to see it on the screen when I can play it in my head...

[Katherine Brengle]

61. Anything that objectifies women and...

makes them seem less than men is harmful, not only to women, but to society.

[GirlinContempt]

62. Are you saying porn does that

or is this a generalized statement?

[Katherine Brengle]

75. I am saying...

that pornography does that, and that it is also true of things other than pornography.

Just my two cents :).

[bertha katzenengel]

72. Female: Other: I have watched a few sex movies made by real lesbians.

Never been threatened or grossed out by them, never felt that the women were being objectified or used. They looked like they were having fun. :shrug:

P.S. in this context: Real lesbians do not have big fat perfect hair, silicone breasts, waspish waists, perfect asses, red fingernails, red toenails, and sticky red lips, and real lesbians do not wear fuck-me pumps when they have sex for the camera. Just a reality check for the fellas. ;)

[NMMNG]

104. rAmen sister!

It's good to see that somebody else recognizes the difference between actual lesbian created porno/erotica and "lesbian porn" created by and for men. The former I enjoy, where the latter is not only boring but annoying at times.

[NewJeffCT]

74. I think most porn is fine

But, there is some that is exploitive of women...

[Warren DeMontague]

77. I think most porn is fairly low-brow, some I find erotic and aesthetic

some I find just ridiculous.

Andrew Blake has done some good stuff, in the 'aesthetic' category IMHO.

I used to work for a chain of indie video stores, and I encountered more than my share of smut- smut of ALL stripes. I would categorize some porn as 'misogynist'- Max Hardcore springs to mind. We successfully lobbied the owners to stop carrying his dreck, actually.

But that is hardly ALL porn. And I don't think a mere picture of a naked woman -or man- or the two of them, having sex- constitutes anything resembling 'oppression'. Likewise, I certainly don't think getting turned on by looking at nude pictures of the opposite (or the same) sex constitutes an 'illness', or 'visual rape' (two explanations I've seen here).. I also don't think that 'consciousness raising' via throwing endless amounts of Dworkin and Mackinnon quotes at men is ever going to stop them from getting erections while looking at pictures of naked women.

Ever.

I also do think men are, as a general trend, more visually wired for arousal than women. There are perfectly logical evolutionary explanations as to why this might be the case- and I think it's borne out by the fact that gay men are generally much more interested in porn- containing images of gay men- than lesbians are in lesbian porn.

Again, those are general statements. There are men who don't like porn, women who do, gay men who don't, lesbians who do, etc. etc. etc.

But from my experience working around the stuff, I know that men, women, couples, etc. all like porn, and still manage to be healthy, productive members of the community at the same time. The broad generalizations don't apply, in my experience.

As long as everyone involved is a consenting adult, to each his or her own. How consenting adults get their jollies or what they do with their own bodies isn't really my business.

[Benfea]

78. Other.

In principle, I don't have a problem with porn, but there are certain details and circumstances I do have a problem with.

Let's stop and think about sex addicts. I'm not talking about porn addicts, I'm talking about people who have self esteem problems and the only time they truly feel wanted and valuable as people is when they're having sex. It's not a pretty thing, and I have to imagine that a good number of actors and actresses in the porn industry are sex addicts, and the industry is essentially acting as an enabler here.

Additionally, there are certain kinds of porn that really can't be called anything but exploitive and/or degrading (e.g. "cum shots").

There are other industry practices I've heard rumors about that make me really uncomfortable (e.g. women forced to do things they don't want to because of fine print in contracts).

Hopefully, that sort of thing will improve over time. I also hope that the fact that we are seeing more women as directors and producers means that over time we'll see more of a variety of perspective than just the male perspective.

As for consuming porn, that also depends. Sex is a healthy human activity, but because we live in a sexually oppressive society, what should be a natural and healthy thing becomes somewhat perverted. There are certainly porn consumers who take things too far (e.g. porn addicts), but there are also plenty of peole who just use it to vent excess sexual energy in a responsible way, and I have no problem with that.

[Deja Q]

80. Porn is rather useful when reality won't lend in a helping hand...

:hide:

[Strong Atheist]

108. Agreed. Hi! nt.

[NaturalHigh]

88. I don't know that porn is "healthy"...

but it is legal and a matter of personal choice, so long as only adults are involved in its making and viewing.

[Deja Q]

93. Why is it unhealthy? Convince me of all people, as to me it's no choice.

[MrSlayer]

89. Other: It's fine when you're 14, generally stupid when you're an adult..

It's great when you're a teenager and need to whack it ten times a day but once you get the real thing and you're still hung up on porn you might have a problem. I think it gives some men an unrealistic view of what to expect from a woman, particularly the nerds who never get any, and can lead to anger and resentment toward women. I think the gang bang, bukake and double/triple penetration vids are completely unnecessary and ridiculous as well. What the hell is sexy about a woman getting spooged on by 20 dudes or taking on 500 guys to set a record?

This is not to say that all adults into porn are stupid, some people are just into it and it works for them and they are completely healthy and that's fine. I just feel that if you need to maintain a massive porn collection as an adult even if you are in a sexual relationship with someone it is a sign of immaturity and dysfunction.

Maybe I'm just fortunate enough to be with someone who is completely compatible with me and gives me enough that I never have to resort to porn and masturbation to satisfy myself.

I was over the whole porn thing by the time I was 16. The real thing is so much better than watching, I just never saw the need for it again.

[Nikia]

90. I don't like most porn videos

The following things are big turn offs to me:
1. Money shots.
2. Calling the female names like "slut" or "whore"
3. Slapping the female's butt.
4. Any plot that involves kidnapping or any sort of violence.
The first three are in almost every porn film that my husband and I have seen. The last has been in a good number of films that did not have this plot twist in the synopsis on the box.
My husband and I also joked about a porn film that was set in the past but the main female performers had obvious implants. The implants almost seemed funny in that light.
I also had a couple of boyfriends who seemed to get their sexual knowledge from porn because what they wanted seemed to be straight from a porn script, complete with changing positions and calling me names (to which I said don't you dare call me that.). I didn't stay with these guys very long.

[Warren DeMontague]

96. I find those things turn offs, too.

If someone's gotta be 'in charge' in a hetero porno, I want it to be the woman. That's just me. :evilgrin:

[donheld]

94. I have a sizable collection of Gay porn

I paraphrase Charlton Heston when I say They'll get my porn away from me when they pry it from my cold dead hands :evilgrin::popcorn::evilgrin:

[Strong Atheist]

107. Lol! Agreed! nt.

[Jamastiene]

98. I am a perv. Granted porn is sort of illegal in my state, I still

feel that consentual sex acts between adults caught on video with their permission is very healthy and should be encouraged. We should have real amateur porn channels on television with a warning for those who are offended so they can block it. Instead, we are dumbed down and porn is frowned upon by those who can't let the rest of us live and let live. I love porn.

[NMMNG]

105. You perv

;-)

[Blue_Tires]

102. porn? whatever happened to classy terms like 'erotica?'

that's what i use

[last_texas_dem]

103. Other

I think it depends on the type of stuff and it depends on the effect it has on the person experiencing it. Some of it can work as a healthy outlet for some people, some of it can cause people to build distorted conceptions of sex; for a lot of people I'm sure it serves as a neither healthy nor unhealthy cure for boredom.

[ismnotwasm]

109. This is the mellowist porn arguement I've ever seen.

It almost-- (gasp--)a discussion!
Someone way up there mentioned Heinlein, and he was an huge early influence on me-- He was constantly challenging (haven't read him in years though) like when he had sex with young females clones of himself. In fact the young female clones had to talk his charector into it. (They didn't have to try very hard)

He would boggle your mind as far as sex and the possibilities of science.

Where were we? Oh porn. Most of it is dull,(to me)
My major problem, is not people watching porn in privacy--I don't care. It's the general degregation of women that seems so common. I've watched my share of porn. It seems to me that that porn reflects some social/sexual growing we need to do. Why do women need to be degraded? Why do women choose to be in those kind of movies? (That's where the money is?) And some vanilla porn I've seen, some of it some of those here probably would not consider it insulting or degrading towards women, but I do. Not all of it. Kind of insidious really.
I was reading a study that says there is a trend towards more SMBD porn as well as more violence. Only one study-- so I hope that's not the case because the history of porn seem to reflect social mores in some way(and the current economics)
I've read some porn from the Victorian age It was definitely opposite from what you think when you hear "Victorian age"--Jesus.

Another scary study I was reading was the STD as well as HIV rate in the actors themselves. From what I understand, there is mandatory testing up here in the US, but what if you decide to go make a quick buck in Brazil? And then come back up here with HIV? (Which is what the study was implying) So being a porn actor is not the safest profession in the world either, which has nothing to do with people who watch it of course. (So toall the sex worker advocates out there bless you)
Here is an interesting website:

http://www.aim-med.org/
And the history of Dr. Sharon Mitchell herself is well worth looking up.

So I do have objections as a women and as a feminist to porn, but I understand it's not going away.

Discussion is better than arguement, but is very hard on these hot button issues, with strong opinions on all sides.