Cred Zeppelin

[XNASA]

http://www.moistworks.com/2006/03/you-need-love-muddy-waters-written-by.html

OK. Claiming that the 'Immigrant Song' was nicked from 'Bali Hai' might seem like bit of a stretch, but the bit about Bert Jansch's "Blackwater Side" is pretty condemning.

[mikeytherat]

1. Dread Zeppelin

http://www.dreadzeppelin.com/

mikey_the_rat

[Richard Steele]

9. Five million Tortelvis fans cant be wrong! nm

[bif]

2. Lez Zeppelin

A real band, I kid you not. Female band that does Zep covers.

[LynneSin]

5. I saw them - they were really good

My friend drug me to BBKings in NYC where they were doing a Led Zeppelin tribute concert on Robert Plant's birthday. Lez Zeppelin opened and they were really good. They had all the moves and techniques down especially the gal doing guitar.

Then the main band came out which was Black Dog - they sucked. It was just a bunch of old men wanting to play loud shit and scream all the time. Half the talent of Led Zeppelin was they were very much intune with their feminine side in their performance. Probably why the chick LZ tribute band was so much better then the other assholes

[Fenris]

3. It's like Page listened to the track and played Jansch's version verbatim

The "You Need Love/Lovin'" similarities show "Whole Lotta Love" was most definitely rip-off.

[johnnie]

4. There was a guy here at work years ago..

He didn't believe me when I told him these things. He was a die-hard fan and almost hit me when I told him. Not long after a friend of his gave him a tape that had 28 or so songs that where Zeppelin songs well before the were Zeppelin songs.

The one that was unreal was Dazed and Confused. It had the recording of the guy who wrote it and it was almost exactly the same as the one Plant and Page "wrote". The words, the music..everything.

Here is an interview:

MUSICIAN: I understand "Dazed and Confused" was originally a song by Jake Holmes. Is that true?
PAGE: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know about all that.
MUSICIAN: Do you remember the process of writing that song?
PAGE: Well, I did that with the Yardbirds originally.... The Yardbirds were such a good band for a guitarist to play in that I came up with a lot of riffs and ideas out of that, and I employed quite a lot of those in the early Zeppelin stuff.
MUSICIAN: But Jake Holmes, a successful jingle writer in New York, claims on his 1967 record that he wrote the original song.
PAGE: Hmm. Well, I don't know. I don't know about that. I'd rather not get into it because I don't know all the circumstances. What's he got, The riff or whatever? Because Robert wrote some of the lyrics for that on the album. But he was only listening to...we extended it from the one that we were playing with the Yardbirds.
MUSICIAN: Did you bring it into the Yardbirds?
PAGE: No, I think we played it 'round a sort of melody line or something that Keith had. So I don't know. I haven't heard Jake Holmes so I don't know what it's all about anyway. Usually my riffs are pretty damn original What can I say?

http://www.turnmeondeadman.net/Zep/DazedAndConfused.html

[LynneSin]

6. You do realize it's no secret about the source of my of the earlier works

And it was very common with many of the bands from that time to pick up sources from other musicians to use in the music. However, LZ finally paid up after confronted by Willie Dixon's daughter about the use of their music.

I mean, if these people are just figuring this all out, I'm wondering what rock they've lived under for the last 50 years

[Rabrrrrrr]

7. Zeppelin, as well as a lot of other bands, did a lot of old blues songs

and songs from other genres.

Not like it's a fucking secret or a big conspiracy.

Christ. Listen to any of the guitar-based bands of the 60s and 70s, and there are literally hundreds of covers of old blues songs, and some bands covering the same songs.

Who fucking cares? That's what musicians do.

[LynneSin]

10. Thank you!

Actually, probably because of bands like Led Zeppelin and the Willie Dixon lawsuit that musicians are now required to get permissions before sampling/using songs from other artists. I was suprised on Robert Plant's 'Sixty-Six to Timbuktu' album (which was a greatest hits for his solo works) that much of the early pre-zep songs were made famous by other singers like "Hey Joe" and "For What It's Worth". The first CD (the pre-zep stuff) was old recordings of the stuff he had done (some of it unreleased) and basically he'd show up to the studio and since the studios owned the songs they'd ask him to record some of this stuff (btw - most of it wasn't very good, even he admits to that).

[Rabrrrrrr]

12. And the truth is, if it weren't for British bands like Zep and Yardbirds

and others, America would have never realized the incredible cache of music that we already had.

The Brits took the scorned-upon-by-white-people blues music of America and gave it to the world.

[johnnie]

13. It wasn't about them covering them

It was about taking the music, melody and lyrics, putting their name on them and cashing in. It is one thing to record someone else's song and credit them and it is another to rip off the people who had no way to fight you for the rights of their music.

[Rabrrrrrr]

16. The early American blues artists were all screwed by their labels

long before the rock bands started playing their music - the studios already owned them lock stock and barrel, gave the black guys practically nothing in return, then left them out to dry with no royalties or legal rights. A sad thing, yes, but not the fault of the bands who came later.

[johnnie]

18. Yes but once again

Most bands credited the writer of the songs instead of saying they wrote the song. It is all water under the bridge now, but I don't understand why people don't get the fact that Led Zeppelin blatantly ripped off whole songs and called them their own. Hell, even the guys in Zeppelin admit it.

[Fenris]

19. They were very good at what they did.

Their records are still terrific. But they were plagiarists.

It doesn't diminish Led Zepplin as a band (because they rocked), it diminishes Page and Plant as songwriters (and ethical people, although one could argue music is no place for ethics - just ask the Rolling Stones).

[johnnie]

21. That's about all I am saying

It's not about the group.

[XNASA]

22. I think that you and Fenris pretty much sum up my feelings as well.

There's no sin in borrowing.....

But credit must be given where credit is due.

[Susang]

23. What makes it worse

Is that Plant is known as one of the most litigious fucks in the music business, suing anyone who doesn't pay LZ proper royalties. Ever wonder why the Viking Kittens disappearedfrom rathergood.com, only to reappear using a different song?

Ironic, isn't it?

[LynneSin]

31. I think that's Jimmy Page

he owns most of the masters for the Led Zeppelin library and has been known to be protective of the music and a bit of a cheap bastard to boot

[Susang]

35. Then it must be both of them

Since I know of someone who was contacted by LZ's legal team with a cease and desist order after Plant happened to see him perform in a hotel bar.

[ProfessorGAC]

26. I Don't Think The Old Blues Dudes Minded That Much

I've heard plenty of them, Bo Diddley, BB King, Albert King, Muddy Waters, and a few others say that their own record sales went way up when those British boys started doing those songs. Even in the case of Zeppelin, they clearly stated who they were influeced by. So, i think more credit was extended than some here seem to think.

Those guys became a lot more comfortable financially when people started asking "Who's Muddy Waters?" after they heard Page, or Beck, or Richards, or Clapton talking about them as influences
The Professor

[johnnie]

28. There is no doubt that the British Blues explosion helped

The Stones, The Yardbirds, The Animals, The Who and a lot more bands re-introduced a hell of a lot of people to a hell of a lot of people. But my problem with it is when the listeners had no idea that the song they were listening to was written by one of the great blues players because the song had someone else's name on it.

The only two that really get to me is "You need love" and "Dazed and confused". Although "In my time of Dying" was an old song that they put their name on also.

[ProfessorGAC]

34. I Get Ya!

I guess my take is that if the guys who were "slighted" don't mind that much, i won't either.
The Professor

[ProfessorGAC]

33. My Stupid Mistake

Posted in the wrong place!

[LynneSin]

20. I can't speak for all fans

but it does bug me a bit that people think that this was only done by Led Zeppelin. It was common fact during that time period but most notably it was Zeppelin.

But remember, it was a different world back then. I would suppose that LZ fans who get upset probably haven't caught on to the 21st century.

[CBGLuthier]

24. Like Paul Simon for example

He stole the arrangement for Scarborough Fair from Martin Carthy;

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4153/is_20040716/ai_n12091867

[In_The_Wind]

8. I honestly don't have any problem with Zeppelin's music.

I enjoy listening to it.

[LynneSin]

11. Awwww Sweetie - I love you too

Because saying that is like telling me you love me

:loveya:

[In_The_Wind]

15. I love you too. I've always been a Zeppelin fan.

I need my traveling music.

[LynneSin]

17. Especially when you travel to NYC for weekend of April 29th

Hey, you interested in volunteering? I was going to take some time off beforehand and was thinking of helping out since ANSWER isn't involved

[In_The_Wind]

25. Volunteering?

no

[LynneSin]

27. How about just coming

:shrug:

And I'll volunteer to bring you a bottle of really good vodka!

[In_The_Wind]

29. I'll be there!

There's no need to bribe me.

I'll be wearing a smile and a fresh NC tan. :)

[LynneSin]

30. Hey - if you're in NC for what I think you'll be there for

bring her back with you. We'll figure out a way to get her back home

Lynne

[In_The_Wind]

32. I'll be there April 1st.

I'd love to bring her back but she can't take that much time off from work. :(

Most of my playmates have day jobs. Why do you think I travel around alone so much of the time?

[ProfessorGAC]

14. M'Eh!

Nothing there i didn't already know. People have been stealing/borrowing from earlier works for a zillion years. Like Stowkowski said "Ordinary musicians borrow. The true geniuses steal and make others think the work is original!" so there!
The Professor