"...don't rape her"

[bloom]

A lot has been said about how to prevent rape. Women should learn self-defense. Women should lock themselves in their houses after dark. Women shouldn't have long hair and women shouldn't wear short skirts. Women shouldn't leave drinks unattended. Hell, they shouldn't dare to get drunk at all. Instead of that bullshit, how about:

If a woman is drunk, don't rape her.
If a woman is walking alone at night, don't rape her.
If a woman is drugged and unconscious, don't rape her.
If a woman is wearing a short skirt, don't rape her.
If a woman is jogging in a park at 5 am, don't rape her.
If a woman looks like your ex-girlfriend you're still hung up on, don't rape her.
If a woman is asleep in her bed, don't rape her.
If a woman is asleep in your bed, don't rape her.
If a woman is doing her laundry, don't rape her.
If a woman is in a coma, don't rape her.
If a woman changes her mind in the middle of or about a particular activity, don't rape her.
If a woman has repeatedly refused a certain activity, don't rape her.
If a woman is not yet a woman, but a child, don't rape her.
If your girlfriend or wife is not in the mood, don't rape her.
If your step-daughter is watching TV, don't rape her.
If you break into a house and find a woman there, don't rape her.
If your friend thinks it's okay to rape someone, tell him it's not, and that he's not your friend.
If your "friend" tells you he raped someone, report him to the police.
If your frat-brother or another guy at the party tells you there's an unconscious woman upstairs and it's your turn, don't rape her, call the police and tell the guy he's a rapist.
Tell your sons, god-sons, nephews, grandsons, sons of friends it's not okay to rape someone.
Don't tell your women friends how to be safe and avoid rape.
Don't imply that she could have avoided it if she'd only done/not done x.
Don't imply that it's in any way her fault.
Don't let silence imply agreement when someone tells you he "got some" with the drunk girl.
Don't perpetuate a culture that tells you that you have no control over or responsibility for your actions. You can, too, help yourself.
If you agree, re-post it. It's that important.
-Author unknown.
http://wildcherrygal.livejournal.com/

[bertha katzenengel]

1. NO MEANS NO

Not "stop for now." Not "not this instant." Not "not really, wink wink." Not "maybe next time I say 'no.'"

And for god's sake, "no" never means "oh, yeah!"

Mrs. V. and I have told both our nephews this. Please god, let it stick.

[miss_american_pie]

:applause:

[Dangerously Amused]

2. Great post but I don't get

"...Don't tell your women friends how to be safe and avoid rape."




What am I missing?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

3. a lot of advice given to women about avoiding rape tends to have a blame the victim air about it

like "if you werent out so late this wouldnt have happened" "if you were stronger..." "if you were better armed..." "if you wore more clothes..."

etc

[One_Life_To_Give]

13. Can be a double edged sword though

It can be tuff to find a "neautral" way to say
Don't walk through that area by yourself or after dark.

Unfortunatly there are bad people in the world.
Being in certain areas or not being aware of your surroundings will make one a more likely target.

And face it the Ankle length Hobble Skirt with the 7in Ballet Heels is not the best choice if you might need to make a quick getaway from a bad situation. :silly:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. i work late at night in harlem. my job requires me to dress a certain way.

who will pay my rent if i dont go to work?

on edit: i may also reserve the right to live my life w.out the fear of sexual violence

rape is a very effective power of intimidation to women in public spaces...i resent it

[One_Life_To_Give]

22. Pardon my poor attempt at humor

Yes you should be able to wear whatever you want whenever you want.
(Unless your in a movie being chased by Freddie, Jason, etc. in which case it is the most unappropriate garmets for running away:7 )

As for freedom to live wihtout fear. What should be and what is are two different things.
Not that we should not try to make things better.

[idgiehkt]

32. duh.

"What should be and what is are two different things."

No adult woman on this board needs a lecture about that, as we live with the fear of rape every day. Pretty fucking condescending. :eyes:

[ProfessorGAC]

25. I Still Wonder How Wise It Is. . .

. . .to tell someone not to help others be safe. Not even about a rape issue. Each of us does have some measure of responsibility for our own safety. Even if it's just not driving like a lunatic.

I would never tell my nieces not to avoid situations that could cause them harm. I care about them too much. If something did happen though, i would never want anyone to blame those young ladies. I'd want the criminal who did it to take the blame.
The Professor

[Tyler Durden]

4. Sick that we have TELL people not to rape someone.

When shouldn't this be a "given?"

Do we have to tell people not to kill, rob or injure someone else?

What has this species come to?

[The2ndWheel]

12. Isn't that why we built civilization?

Wait, no, the builders of it did all those things.

Ooooo, that's why we have laws.

Wait, no, those are there so the wealthy can do all of those things.

At least we only do it to our own species.

Wait...goddamn it.

[jmm]

5. This just became my latest myspace bulletin

:yourock:

[bloom]

6. cool

thanks

[ThomCat]

7. I love this post!

I'm going to post this elsewhere!

Thank you very, very much!

[reyd reid reed]

8. Great post...

I would like to add one thing...silence does NOT mean consent. It might mean fear or uncertainty -- don't rape her.

[skygazer]

9. Perfect timing

I just had a friend forward me a "how to prevent rape" email the other day involving things like not walking alone after dark and not parking in certain areas. I cut and pasted this and sent it right back to her, telling her, "I prefer this one."

[cwydro]

10. excellent

:kick:

[ghostsofgiants]

11. Kinda reminds me of the Canadian Federation of Students' "No Means No" campaign.

[Fleshdancer]

17. GREAT poster n/t

[HEyHEY]

14. Uh, what you're forgetting is that the sick fucks that do this

Don't give a shit. So, unfortunately for women they have to be on their toes. And it certainly isn't their fault. But some fucking bastard that would rape a woman won't read this post and say, "Oh, really? Shit I was about to."

[bloom]

18. A society that blames the victim favors the rapist.

It's about the culture of rape - where women are blamed. It affects the court system and all sorts of things. As well as the perception of rapists that they can get away with it. It even goes to the way rape is defined by society.

If there were not so many god-awful messages suggesting that the woman should have done something instead of the message that the criminal should NOT have done something - as it is with every other crime - that would be a good thing for everybody.

[One_Life_To_Give]

23. You missed my College newspaper

It was full of reports on;
Student left dorm room door open, when stepping out to _______, just for a second.
Found $______ missing from hiding place in room.

I have also read that most cars are stolen while the motor is running. Usually means it was left running outside the convenience store while the owner ran inside for whatever.

Contrary to what this thread implies. I don't think everyone who offers advise on how to keep from being a victim of a crime. Is doing so to enable sexual predators.

[miss_american_pie]

19. But those sick fucks aren't born that way

They learned somewhere along the way that it's acceptable.

[ProfessorGAC]

26. That(!) I'd Like To See Sociological Proof Of

Look there are obviously people who are miswired. Nobody teaches that robbing a bank is ok. But, people do it. And, even if you're correct in the abstract, once those people have learned that the consequences are not worth considering and they will do whatever they want, the risk is still there.

How society fomented it 50, or 100, or 500 years ago is irrelevant. The danger is real and it's real RIGHT NOW!

Those "sick bastards" are sick now. We can't turn the clock back.
The Professor

[idgiehkt]

28. Lugu Lake

I don't have a link, but I remember watching a documentary about it. A matriarchal society in China, where rape is non-existant. There isn't even a word for it in their language.

[miss_american_pie]

31. The risk is still there

for women who take self defense classes, and women who never drink, and women who never go out alone after dark. I'd rather not promote the "if I don't dress like a slut I'm safe" delusion.

(I'd argue the "nobody teaches robbing a bank is ok" point too, but I can't stick around to continue the debate. :hi:)

[rbnyc]

21. "Boys will be boys, so girls must take care..."

GRRR!!!

The point is that we need to change the culture, we need to change our expectations of the "fucking bastards" you're referring to.

[Yavin4]

16. You Forgot One

If a woman is dead, don't rape her.

[rbnyc]

20. AWESOME!!!!

Thank You!

[ProfessorGAC]

24. OK By Me

A crime is a crime. I don't root for criminal behavior. (Well, excepting stupid laws. Somebody had to say "No, i'm not moving to the back of this bus.")
The Professor

[jpgray]

27. It's a tough issue to talk about--clearly the fault begins and ends with the rapist

But I think taking steps to avoid situations that may lead to rape is best, and that it's not good to be absolutist about declaring -any- precaution to be an unforgivable submission to violent and depraved males. There's a big difference between carrying some mace in areas with a history of violent crime and never leaving the house or wearing a burqa.

[momophile]

29. thanks. this is very important.

I'm still signing my daughter up for some kind of self-defense, though.
:hug:

[idgiehkt]

30. yep

so much of the time when we hear about rape it's always in passive voice, the victim 'was raped', even though the victim is always the object of the action she or he gets associated with the verb and the subject, the actual attacker, is never named. It maked me wonder if that is why we do blame the victim so much...some sort of linguistic programming thing.

I do think that rapists learn as children, I mean before 8 or 10, the attitudes that turn them into the criminals they are. Of course, it's possible that many of them are caught up in repetition compulsion as a result of sexual abuse, which our culture refuses to acknowledge even exists for the most part, because it wants to demonize the perpetrators of crimes like this as possessing some otherworldly evil instead of acknowledging the abuse that happens to small children, especially males, in so many families. My relative that just died was like that and to this day my family will say he was 'born bad' or just got some 'bad blood'. Bullshit. Someone destroyed his psyche as a child and he took victim after victim in his adult life. Some of them will grow up to victimize and some already have.

I know there are so-called 'rogue males' that go around in the animal kingdom perpetrating violence on other animals, including members of their species, and also gangs of pubescent males that travel together and do gang-rapes and stuff. I don't think it accounts for the amount of rape that is present in our society though. I could be wrong of course, because I haven't seen any statistics or percentages.

[bloom]

33. There was an interesting article posted in the Health section...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x12260

Omega-3, junk food and the link between violence and what we eat

http://www.guardian.co.uk/food/Story/0,,1924088,00.html

One paragraph of the article says:

"But the new research calls into question the very basis of criminal justice and the notion of culpability. It suggests that individuals may not always be responsible for their aggression. Taken together with a study in a high-security prison for young offenders in the UK, it shows that violent behaviour may be attributable at least in part to nutritional deficiencies."

----

I think that the perpetrators always have to be held responsible. But if there are things that society can do - such as not giving people the idea that rape is ever acceptable under any conditions - and things like educating people about diets (like about Omega-3's and such) - as well as prosecute abuse - then that seems like a good idea for everybody, too.

The UK article seemed to have more of an attitude like - the society is responsible for itself as a whole. And I think that that is the message of my OP as well. Like some of the things in there - people should call 911 when a young woman is being raped unconscious. And yet I've read things that suggest - "peer pressure" often works against the woman - instead of in her favor. That is a societal thing.

[idgiehkt]

34. I think with teens and young adults

there is an underlying resentment that males have towards females that our culture doesn't even want to acknowledge or deal with because the roots of it are so deeply planted in the male psyche that it's kind of a given that this topic is kind of off limits. It's like that famous photo of Sigmund Freud where he sits scowling at his sisters, and much has been made of the suggestion that he might have had some underlying issues of jealousy and resentment at his sisters that was responsible for the misogyny in his writings and teachings. I think it has to do with power, and how young males may perceive that young females have more power than they do to influence older, more powerful males because of their sexuality, and that they resent that somehow and set out to make the females pay at every opportunity.

I don't think there is any hope in educating people about diets, because of predatory marketing practices and the addictive chemicals put into so many foods, like the citric and phosphoric acid used in soda, not to mention sugar. I'm certain that nutrition has alot to do with it, and things like mercury in amalgalm which has been shown to greatly affect the CNS, but I don't know what hope there is...I certainly don't think it's in education since most folks don't even know who Dick Cheney is, or that Iraq wasn't behind 9/11, and you can't legislate this stuff, because then the mega-$$$ repuke marketing firms will blanket the media with gripes about the so-called 'nanny state' in the U.S. and get the knee-jerk libertarians up in arms.

About the only thing I think would help would be an end to judeo-christian religious influence where the only female figure is a virgin, portraying female sexuality as an aberration that deserves punishment. Because that's the brain-washing that lays the foundation for rapists, and the 'blame the victim, she's a slut' mentality that comes after.

[bloom]

35. I think that there is

a lot of denial about misogyny.

"there is an underlying resentment that males have towards females that our culture doesn't even want to acknowledge or deal with because the roots of it are so deeply planted in the male psyche that it's kind of a given that this topic is kind of off limits"

That's probably right.

I noticed this blog the other day: http://brahms.phy.vanderbilt.edu/~rknop/blog/?p=116

A tale of egregious scientific male misbehavior

A lot of denial going on in the comments there.


With the Omega-3 thing - sometimes - steps are taken to try to get people getting a certain nutrient. Like Vitamin D in milk and iodine in salt. It's probably time for our culture to figure out what people need that we aren't getting and put it in the water. These "nanny state'' people drive me nuts. I think they are mostly people who like having their privileges and don't give a crap about anyone else. There was a New Jersey politician who was getting death threats (provoked by the restaurant lobby more than likely) over his efforts to get trans fat out of restaurants. Our society has done things in the past that are very helpful to people. It's time to shut "nanny state" people down - and have the country working in the people's interest again. And give better advisories about mercury too - instead of listening to the seafood industry lobbyists. (Of course if someone is living on coffee and beer - it's not going to do any good - unless they can get that stuff in coffee and beer. Hey - there's an idea....esp. the beer. That would be just the thing).


I agree that the Judeo-Christian (and Muslim) stuff does not help at all. There is a lot of nonsense and poisonous attitudes about women embedded all through it. Though I think even when people leave - or never were involved in those religions - they often carry the same attitudes - just the same. Unless they have come question the entire patriarchal basis of the culture.

[raccoon]

36. I think there's a lot of denial about date rape.

Just a few decades ago, the phrase didn't exist. The concept didn't exist. Although it happened. Lots.

And still does.

Some men view it as a contest. They date a woman and if they have sex, he wins the contest. If they don't have sex, she wins.