Have you ever come across people that act a certain way

[SPKrazy]

in "public"- as in nice, friendly, polite, even helpful and supportive.

and then are completely different, say even mean as a snake, sadistic, and cruel in private?

:shrug:

I've always wondered how people like that see themselves. As a student of human behavior I could theorize about it, but I wonder what others think. It's one of more puzzling enigmas of human behavior to me.

I mean I can get the consistently mean sociopathic type.

I can get the nice on the surface, passive aggressive type.

I can get the tortured soul borderline personality type and their inability to have triadic relationships.

It's the Jekyl and Hyde types that always get me. Although they become amazingly predictable in their unpredictability and that in itself is a clue I think.

What do you think?

:hi:

[ForrestGump]

1. Yes. More than once.

There are both male and female versions on this very Internet board, for that matter.

Such people are the worst of all sociopathic types (or whatever the clinical category for such Jekyll-and-Hyde pathology that does not fit something as off-the-wall as MPD or other dissociative disorders), I think, and seem to be fully cognizant of the schism and use it as a weapon. They are that much worse for not being, as you suggest, at least open about their a**holery and thus being just another obvious jerk. They'll suck you in and the slap, when it comes, hurts at least twice as much. To top it off, bystanders -- including friends -- won't necessarily see them for what they are and will wonder what in the hell is wrong with you. I don't know exactly what drives these two-faced backstabbing slimeballs, when there's no obvious material or other pragmatic advantage to their vicious behavior, but may they all go straight to hell.

[SPKrazy]

2. Kinda my thoughts as well

i am more curious as to the etiology with them.

it's a deviousness that is perhaps even "evil" if there is such a thing.

M. Scott Peck thought there was and had some interesting perspectives on it.

I don't know myself if I go that far as "evil" is a concept that is hard for me to wrap my brain around. On the other hand, the precious on the surface, monster underneath type person is equally hard to wrap my brain around as well.

BTW, you pull no punches man, I like that!

[ForrestGump]

4. We are one

in this thought. :-)

I, too, would call it pure 'evil,' but I have some trouble with defining exactly what evil is. But it's sure, as a concept, close enough for government work.

Yeah...you're right: where does it come from?

[SPKrazy]

5. I don't know where it comes from

but it is no doubt the pestilence of the planet...

:shrug:


:)

[NMDemDist2]

57. Scott Peck's take on evil was fascinating

I really enjoyed that book in a twisted sort of way.

the other thing I really liked from Peck was his 4 stages of spirituality. Both made perfect sense to me

:shrug:

[TOhioLiberal]

3. Yep...

'Have you ever come across people that act a certain way in "public"- as in nice, friendly, polite, even helpful and supportive.

and then are completely different, say even mean as a snake, sadistic, and cruel in private?'

Yes. I'm married to such a person. If you met him, I've no doubt you would like him. He radiates charm. In private, he is mean spirited and vindictive.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TOhioLiberal]

9. it's like this...

...He's an angry man. Every frustration, every annoyance gets pushed down deep inside until one day he explodes in anger. Usually at some stupid little thing I've done. He gets angry, all out of proportion to the provocation.

I get to hear how stupid everybody is he's encountered, how unworthy to live certain segments of the population are.

I can't get out of here fast enough, because since Lesley died, he's gotten far worse.

[SPKrazy]

12. wow, sorry TOL

you predicted that... man, that bites

:hug:

[TOhioLiberal]

20. Yes I did...

...and it sucks.

The thing is, I'm standing in quicksand. I recognize the fact I need to get out of here. He's got me stuck here. I have no money, no job. He has destroyed my credit, so when I leave, I'll probably be on the street.

[jobycom]

11. Can we form a club?

Best thing I did was leave her. Now, I am public and she tries to be nicer to me--after the bullying attempts failed. She still bullies our kids, though.

[SPKrazy]

13. Good!

:pals:

[mentalsolstice]

7. Yep, I've come across such people

You're not one of them! :hug: Unfortunately, with your sweet nature, you probably are vulnerable to being taken in by such types. But, you know what, it's more admirable to be one of the taken, than to be the one who took!

another :hug:

[SPKrazy]

15. Hey there!

I was just thinking I hadn't seen you in a few days!

:hug:

:hug:

:hug:

thanks

[mentalsolstice]

53. I'm here and there...

Buddy, I know you've had a difficult time lately, particularly with Mother's Day...and if a so-called friend has also bailed on you recently, I know how upsetting that can be to your equilibrium. You feel these hurts, and you know what? It means you're a compassionate human being. I've felt the incredible pain as well, and sometimes when it seems too much to bear, I have to remind myself that at least I can feel, and knowing that sharp feeling keeps me from inflicting it on others.

[SPKrazy]

55. yEAH I know

and people you think might even care about you a little let you have it and blow you off over something that really doesn't amount to much in reality but they go on and on about it as if it were the biggest deal in the universe and well, it is just another example of their innate meanness really.

I guess a real question is why in the hell I ever thought they were a friend in the first place.

:hi:

[mzteris]

58. it may be more admirable, but

it certainly isn't more fun. :(

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. i dont get it either.

there is someone i thought was a perfectly nice person and then i heard the lies she was spreading about me. it was so shocking that someone who appeared to be so harmless and friendly could be so vicious. i am still a bit stunned about it.

on edit: no reference to anyone here.

[SPKrazy]

16. i know just what you mean

someone who is nice and then burns your ass to others

or in private they burn your ass even more

:eyes:

just sucks

[jobycom]

10. Ever married one? Seriously, I think it's extreme insecurity mixed with social detachment

They want to be loved and accepted, but they don't really know how to identify with other people. In public, they put on a show of being wonderfully caring and helpful, so people will like them. In private, their insecurity makes them more defensive, since they are around people who they may be struggling with for attention. They get bossy, controlling, mean, spiteful.

At the heart of it is an inability to care about or identify with anyone else (sociopathy), and an insecurity that makes them pretend to be someone else in public. Often, they don't even know who they are, they simply react instinctively to people around them. The sociopathy doesn't have to be complete or evil, it can be just enough to make them selfish.

[SPKrazy]

17. along with a generalized narcissism

that sociopathic tendency will make a wonderful insane person!

try to figure them out, no way.

you're right, i think they don't know who they are themselves.

of course that draws my sympathy card out, and whoosh, burn me again

[jobycom]

21. LOL... Yeah, the sympathy card

As Ian Flemming called it, the wounded bird syndrome.

I know what to avoid next time. Relationships! :rofl:

[SPKrazy]

23. Funny thing

or not so damned funny is that it has been a pattern all my life to end up with people like this in some form or fashion

[Adsos Letter]

14. Yeah...I think this type of behavior is what

the word Hypocrite (to wear the mask) was designed for.

[SPKrazy]

18. Good point!

:thumbsup:

:hi:

[Generic Brad]

19. You just described my family

And that is a large factor in why I cut off ties with them.

[u4ic]

22. You just described my father

but I've known more than one person like that. He is just the most blatant example.

[SPKrazy]

24. that would make it hard to deal with

him

maybe even taint your views of all men

to some degree my mother was like this, although she wasn't so much of the really mean, she wasn't really nice either...

[u4ic]

26. No,

I don't think all men are like him. Very, very few, in fact. But in my younger years I did not have a lot of trust in men - or people in general, I should add.

Now I'm a very different person, due to a lot of work on my part. I prefer living life this way, being open to people; than to the other, behind a thick wall.

:hi:

[SPKrazy]

28. yeah, me too

trust is something i still hand out too easily

but i agree with your premise

:pals:

[NMDemDist2]

59. In my meeting today the topic was "Take a Risk"

I immediately got this mental picture of me as a big footed floppy eared puppy, bounding into the middle of a room and being amazed and chagrined when I wasn't loved like I loved everybody (Damned GLAD to see ya wigggle wiggle wiggle)

The trick is finding the balance of open loving and basic defenses against people who may not have your interests even on their radar.

it was a great meeting :rofl:

[SPKrazy]

60. here puppy!

hey, i got a dog fer ya!

:grr:

sounds like an interesting meeting

all about trust, and learning to read people better.

the amazing thing is that i think i used to be a better reader of people

in fact i still am, there is this type of person that doesn't fool me, but i get sucked into their vortex and need better boundaries and defenses about that.

also a willingness not to let myself take a ride on their tornado of drama, abuse, and bullshit.

:hi:

:hug:

[bridgit]

25. every fucking day, i have no idea where you live, or what you do for a living...

but i do allot of IC work, and some days it is a non-stop stream of false representations up one side of the street and back down the other that are able to be stripped of flowers & embroidery and shown to be straight-up bullshit,

but i have a contract, and in spite of the chagrined faces of many i am sure; i simply take that piece of paper to the state, or county attorney general of jurisdiction and let them sort out what is true and what is not,

unless your meaning is something else in that you've broached this subject elsewhere though with different words...what are you actually referring to? are you able to be more specific?

[SPKrazy]

27. Oh, just a pattern of

behavior that seems to run through different areas of my life, including work, personal relationships, and yes, even people on the internets.

I seem to be drawn to people that are like this.

nice to you in a public way, nice to others, nice to all, and come across as the person that is just, nice.

then in a private place or setting, the mean, cruel, nasty comes out, and low and behold, Mr. SPK is thinking, ya know, they just are doing this because they are "hurt" or they hurt.

Apparently though, it is no such thing. I'm learning at my middle age time of life that that I'm a sucker...

but no more bridgit, no more

[bridgit]

31. i don't 'do' folks like that for very long, the process used to take much longer...

but i'm getting better myself, i've watched the ways in which hubby de-escalates back & away the instant he percieves ill-will, and i try to emulate likewise,

i think we all, those of us that care you know 'people...people who need people' and all that; want to put our best foot forward; contemporary american society is bent, friend, and some have no 'best foot' to put forward sadly...

but yeah, i hear'ya, no more Spk, no more...well, maybe a little some-less-more in that we cannot live our lives in a Skinner Box either

Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child's balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon
There is no sense in trying.

Pointed threats, they bluff with scorn
Suicide remarks are torn
From the fool's gold mouthpiece
The hollow horn plays wasted words
Proves to warn
That he not busy being born
Is busy dying.

Temptation's page flies out the door
You follow, find yourself at war
Watch waterfalls of pity roar
You feel to moan but unlike before
You discover
That you'd just be
One more person crying.

So don't fear if you hear
A foreign sound to your ear
It's alright, Ma, I'm only sighing.

As some warn victory, some downfall
Private reasons great or small
Can be seen in the eyes of those that call
To make all that should be killed to crawl
While others say don't hate nothing at all
Except hatred.

Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their mark
Made everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark
It's easy to see without looking too far
That not much
Is really sacred.

While preachers preach of evil fates
Teachers teach that knowledge waits
Can lead to hundred-dollar plates
Goodness hides behind its gates
But even the president of the United States
Sometimes must have
To stand naked.

An' though the rules of the road have been lodged
It's only people's games that you got to dodge
And it's alright, Ma, I can make it.

Advertising signs that con you
Into thinking you're the one
That can do what's never been done
That can win what's never been won
Meantime life outside goes on
All around you.

You lose yourself, you reappear
You suddenly find you got nothing to fear
Alone you stand with nobody near
When a trembling distant voice, unclear
Startles your sleeping ears to hear
That somebody thinks
They really found you.

A question in your nerves is lit
Yet you know there is no answer fit to satisfy
Insure you not to quit
To keep it in your mind and not fergit
That it is not he or she or them or it
That you belong to.

Although the masters make the rules
For the wise men and the fools
I got nothing, Ma, to live up to.

For them that must obey authority
That they do not respect in any degree
Who despise their jobs, their destinies
Speak jealously of them that are free
Cultivate their flowers to be
Nothing more than something
They invest in.

While some on principles baptized
To strict party platform ties
Social clubs in drag disguise
Outsiders they can freely criticize
Tell nothing except who to idolize
And then say God bless him.

While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society's pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he's in.

But I mean no harm nor put fault
On anyone that lives in a vault
But it's alright, Ma, if I can't please him.

Old lady judges watch people in pairs
Limited in sex, they dare
To push fake morals, insult and stare
While money doesn't talk, it swears
Obscenity, who really cares
Propaganda, all is phony.

While them that defend what they cannot see
With a killer's pride, security
It blows the minds most bitterly
For them that think death's honesty
Won't fall upon them naturally
Life sometimes
Must get lonely.

My eyes collide head-on with stuffed graveyards
False gods, I scuff
At pettiness which plays so rough
Walk upside-down inside handcuffs
Kick my legs to crash it off
Say okay, I have had enough
What else can you show me?

And if my thought-dreams could be seen
They'd probably put my head in a guillotine
But it's alright, Ma, it's life, and life only.

[Lars39]

29. I was introduced once to a guy

whose son was in scouts with mine. Heard nothing but praise for this guy, what a fine upstanding guy he was. I only encountered him very briefly, at a couple of meetings and once at a fundraiser so his kid could go on a church mission trip. He was nice. Then one day I met him on a path beside the welcome center of the park and he greeted me in a sing-song sarcastic voice.

I guess you'd have to have heard it, but it was the creepiest damn thing. It was like he couldn't quite put the mask on in time. I started quietly observing him after that, and there was a lot that didn't add up with him and his family. Was very much like my BIL the sociopath.

[SarahB]

32. God, that sounds like this guy I work with.

Active in scouts too. Everyone thinks he's "such a great guy", but I've seen him in action- evil asshole. He told this girl I work with that if she weren't a single parent who made such little money, she could actually give her daughter a nice Christmas. He continually mocked someone else's Eastern European accent. Just out of his way to be an ass, but it's always on the sly. :grr:

[quiet.american]

30. "Street angels, house devils."

Luckily, I haven't known that type. The jerks I know are that way inside and out.

[Writer]

33. Here is another story from my childhood (warning: disturbing animal cruelty)...

My stepfather had three children of his own. A son almost my age and two fraternal twins several years younger. I was about 10 or 11 at the time and luckily only heard this through word of mouth, but my older sister was staying at our home at the time during college. She had a pet cockatiel that was hand trained, so its wings were clipped. The children got into my sister's room, let the bird out of its cage, and the two younger children chased it as it ran around the floor. The oldest son took a ruler and beat the bird to death.

The nanny discovered the bird and went ballistic. She immediately punished the children and was hysterical. My stepfather returned home and upon hearing what happened, took the bird and stuck it into the freezer (I suppose in order to preserve the bird until my sister returned home...) He had already purchased tickets to Ringling Bros. for that evening, but instead of punishing the children, took them to the circus anyway.

Now, this is a man who would turn around and buy me anything I wished, then we'd witness this side. He was in a very high-paying white collar job and attended church regularly. He even taught Sunday school. My mom divorced him a couple of years later. The last we heard of him, he was being investigated for tax evasion in another state in the mid-1990's. I do not know what happened to the children, but I doubt it was anything good.

And there in lies pure sociopathy... narcissism included. Straight from the DSM-IV. Now, wanna know why I am fixated on the concept of narcissistic personality disorder? There you go.

[SPKrazy]

34. I've not wondered

i knew a little but not about him.

sounds like a really bad egg to say the least.

but I've never wondered why you were fixated, I knew you had reasons. Didn't know this.

:hug:

[lildreamer316]

35. Yeah. It's relieving when ppl have the decency to be assholes ALL the time..

...at least you know they are being honest about themselves.
We will talk more about this later,if ya don't mind. Toddler yelling.
I have a lot to say......:hug:

[SPKrazy]

38. Agreed!

consistency is easier to handle

:hug:

[Bullwinkle925]

36. Are you thinking of Dubya perhaps?

No explanation for that one.

[SPKrazy]

39. he fits no doubt

no one necessarily specific

[AmyDeLune]

37. I used to work with someone like that.

He's about 10 years older than me and had a less than ideal childhood, terribly overweight (at that time) due to poor diet and lack of excerise. As you mention, that gave him the "sympathy card" to play and he played it often. Too often. I finally got to the point where I got fed up with his nastiness and childish behavior (silent treatment, etc.) and decided that he was an adult and he could damn well take responsibility for his own actions and reactions and stop thinking that he could use me as an emotional punching bag. He then decided that I was "out to get him" and make him look bad (uh, no, I'm just doing my job instead of spending all day socializing then complaining that I have no time to get my work done). He once blew up and screamed at me (not in front of any witnesses of course) and when I asked what exactly I had done to earn that, his only response was that he was mad at me, therefore I must have done something to make him mad, he just couldn't remember what it was. He said outright that I was doing things on purpose to piss him off and when I insisted that I wasn't, he said that since he was perceiving that I was, it had to be true because only crazy people perceived things that weren't true/really there. The last straw for me came when he blew up at me and I insisted that he tell me exactly what I had done to warrent it and he said that when I answered a question he had asked he could "tell by the tone in my voice that I thought I was better than him and that I always had to be right." What did he ask? If I had ordered more of a product, my reply? No, I hadn't, did we need more? He finally quit. He was the only employee who didn't get a goodbye/good luck party (and my boss changed the alarm codes the next day).

Why was he like that? I think part of it was craving approval and acceptance and he never got enough to make him happy, hence the nastiness. He would bad mouth customers then practically bend over backwards trying to please them then bad mouth them again when they'd left because they weren't appreciative enough.

He can be very charming and funny, but the longer you're around him the more you notice how mean his humor is and how dependant it is on degrading and belittling others. He's one of those people who seems to really enjoy the misery of others and if he can be the cause of it or make it worse, so much the better for him. I guess he feels that if he can't be happy, he'll drag everyone else down with him.

[SPKrazy]

40. oooh, he sounds like a classical one!

at some point you just get tired of trying to figure out "why" they are like that and just say, grow the fuck up or something!

:hi:

[Lyric]

41. Yes.

I am all-too-familiar with that type of person.

[SPKrazy]

47. Aren't they both a mind blower

and at the same time just too damned predictable to be surprised too much?

:shrug:

[RetroLounge]

42. IT'S A CULT! IT'S A CULT! IT'S A CULT! IT'S A CULT! IT'S A CULT!

Oops. wrong thread. sorry...

:hi:

RL

[SPKrazy]

45. Yes it is!

a cult a cult a cult

:rofl:


:spray:

[dropkickpa]

43. Me

I am nice, sweet, friendly, helpful, and soft spoken when dealing with the public/customers/clients in a work situation.

When it's just me and my friends (including some coworkers), I am sarcastic, loud, cuss a lot, etc etc. I can be mean, but never with the intention to hurt a friend (if someone is being an ass, I'll let them and everyone else know it, though, which can be mean).

One is work DropkickPA (my friends always howl when I answer the phone as her), one is real DropkickPA. I get a lot more done a lot faster at work being work DKPA, especially with a lot of the language barriers we have.

I am NEVER cruel, to anyone, and, even the real, loud abrasive DKPA gets little old ladies talking her ear off CONSTANTLY. It must be a vibe I send out that tells them "She's really a nice girl, she'll actually listen to you and not be rude!!". Even when I was younger and much more outlandish in appearance (think big ass boots, leather, studs, shaved head, entire face peirced, etc etc) my little old lady vibe worked like a charm, appearance not even close to being a deterrant. My friends thought that was hilarious, too. Oh yeah, I also emit the high-pitched squee of the "Ask this person for directions" call at all times. Sad thing is, I don't own a car, never have, but know how to get just about anywhere. Yeah, my friends laugh at this, too. They take bets to see how long it is before someone askes me for directions when we're walking around.

Not sure if that fits what you're talking about, but there is a definite difference between the two. A couple people I interact with at work (customers/clients) know real DKPA, but that's only after I get to know them real well).

[SPKrazy]

49. Oh pffttttt!

that's not what I'm talking about dropkick!

:eyes:

I'm talking about someone that is MEAN and NASTY and has the intent to HURT people.

Not a rowdy person that is different with their friends than they are at work, i mean, i'm like that!

Not that rowdy anymore, but hell, I'm different for the most part at work than I am out with friends.

Although sometimes I get rowdy at work too :silly:

[treestar]

44. Yes, I have family members who are like that

Not so much always mean in private, but always willing to help a stranger and hard on their family, which is the opposite of the family loyalty I hear so much about.

But they always seem to value the friends who they don't spend a lot of time with and go on about how wonderful they are, as if they don't realize that if they spent time with those people, they might find a fault or two.

Reminds me of the old Carol Burnett skits. Eunice spent her time with mama, putting up with her, but whenever one of the other kids breezed in from out of town, Mama would go on about how great them were and even put Eunice down in comparison to them.

[SPKrazy]

50. Some of that is that old adage

we always hurt the one's we love... why? probably because people feel like they won't be rejected by them as easily.

However, the extreme of that is what i'm talking about and that may be what you are talking about.

:hi:

[Shell Beau]

46. People who don't truly know my aunt thinks she is a hoot!

I know the real version of her. :scared:

[SPKrazy]

51. Yeah! That's What I'm Talking About!

the real version... vs. the all smiley, and sweet version, oh, what a sweet person, my goodness, they kid, they grrrrrrr

but yeah, the real version SUCKS and those who discover it are usually surprised, but they shouldn't be, there is a profile of an "oh so sweet and innocent" type who is really mean and nasty underneath it all

:hi:

[Deja Q]

48. Yes. In public I am shy, demure, and nervous. In private,

whip out the hand cuffs and whip cream, baby! :woohoo: :party:

Dyn-o-mite! :spray:

Wait, what's the topic again? :blush:

[SPKrazy]

52. That's not what I'm talking about!

unless in that context you get really really mean and hateful!

then suddenly everything is fine again, and hateful ugly and mean, and then fine again.

Of course, sometimes there is an alcohol problem that drives that kind of behavior too. :shrug:

none of that is what you are toadie! ;)

[NMDemDist2]

54. according to people I respect, that behavior is a control thing

they convince the outside world what sweethearts they are so their SO's will have no credibility when trying to escape.

It's very common in dysfunctional families. kinda the "It's better to look good than to feel good"

They are desperate to appear 'normal' to the outside world and it's a very large part of their ego protection (the look good part)

I think it comes down to that basic fear "If you really knew me, you wouldn't like me" complex. But at home they don't/can't keep the facade up 24/7

[SPKrazy]

56. at home, or other places

when you get to know them

yeah, i see what you are sayin!

:hi:

:hug: