What animals do you think are capable of thinking, and perhaps even self realization?

[Taverner]

I would say at least Chimps, Dolphins and perhaps Elephants.

Mourning the dead has to count for something...

[greendog]

1. Ravens n/t

[Tommy_Carcetti]

56. They do play good football, that's for sure.

[MrScorpio]

2. Cephalopods

Like Cuttlefish

It's the big head!

[BrotherBuzz]

3. Border collie heeler mixes

Beyond any doubt.

[KamaAina]

4. Not all that sure about chimps

[crimsonblue]

5. no.

my cat keeps doing the same stupid shit time and time again. Or maybe she just likes pissing me off.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

60. Trust me, she just likes pissing you off!

They all do, cats. :D

[TZ]

6. Whales..

particularly killer whales..they have actual dialects and different "cultures"..Amazingly smart critters.

[Shell Beau]

54. I think killer whales are actually dolphins.

They are called killer whales for killing whales. But I do think that whales are capable of those feelings.

[I Have A Dream]

65. Well, I learned something new today.

Thanks! :)

[flvegan]

7. All of them.

[Taverner]

11. So would you argue that even a dust mite has sentience?

[flvegan]

14. By definition, yes.

[TZ]

52. What about animals that don't have organized brains.like vertebrates

like say flatworms, sea cucumbers, anemonae, crabs lobsters, insects..What about things like yeast..which aren't plants..what about protista like amoeba amd paramecium. What about plants that act like animals like the Venus fly trap or Pitchur plants. Where do you draw the line?
I'm very curious on this.
As a biologist, I don't think anything that isn't a vertebrate with a high level CNS can even begin to think, let alone be self aware..Its ALL instinct.

[redqueen]

72. Now you've got me wondering....

there are three distinct layers to the brain, evolutionarily speaking, right?

I can't remember their names... but the one that's the latest and greatest in evolution, and gives us our ability to assess consequences, make decisions, etc... that's the largest in humans, right?

Is that where self-awareness comes from? Are cats self-aware? Cause that part... it's nearly absent in cats.

Hmmmm...

[lost-in-nj]

20. I agree 100%

even my daughters goldfish knew when it was time to be fed....
if you walked up to their tank they would come to the top to be fed....


I think we as humans have no idea and in some cases don't want to know
how intelligent the animal kingdom is


lost

[Flaxbee]

74. Exactly - makes it easier to slaughter them for food if you

can convince yourself animals don't think, don't feel fear, etc.

Now, I think there are animals that aren't that bright, say, chicken vs. dolphin, but they ALL think and have feelings, I have no doubt.

[DeepBlueC]

91. agreed

[Inchworm]

35. Signed...

:thumbsup:

[Heidi]

51. :thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

[BarenakedLady]

57. Aye

[jobycom]

69. All except a few humans.

[graywarrior]

8. Cats

[femmocrat]

9. Wolves...

and corgis.

[pokerfan]

10. The African Grey Parrot

is probably smarter than most people.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%27kisi

According to news reports and websites, as of January 2004, N'kisi had a vocabulary of about 950 words and used them in context, frequently in complete sentences, has approximated verb forms to maintain the correct tense (such as saying flied as the past tense of fly), and does not depend on learned phrases to communicate his thoughts. According to these sources, N'kisi is capable of understanding photographic images, and is able to name objects (within his vocabulary) appearing in a photo.

It's somewhat odd that we judge animal intelligence on how well they learn our language when we don't understand hardly any of theirs.

[stuntcat]

12. oh wow

omg the story there about meeting Jane Goodall :wow:

[pokerfan]

15. More Jane Goodall on the subject

http://www.usaweekend.com/04_issues/040222/040222smartanimals.html">The smartest animals on the planet

Her top five:
1. Great apes
2. Whales and Dolphins
3. Elephants
4. Parrots
5. Dogs & Cats

[stuntcat]

18. sweet!

Oh I'm glad she put dogs and cats on there!!

[Taverner]

19. Oh. My. God.

I never knew that about Parrots.

I always chalked them up to be just birds, lizards with feathers.

[sarge43]

29. Parrots have one of the benchmarks of high intelligence --

a sense of and a need to play.

One story from many about parrot playfulness: I had a Blue Streaked Lorry, Mad Max the Rug Warrior. I'd have him grab hold by his feet of the pull cord of the ceiling fan, then I'd push him back and forth. I called it tether bird and he loved it. He'd would beg to play by coming up to me, yell, then run over and stand under the fan. He had me well trained.

[buzzard]

48. Both my babies are smart one more than the other.

[sarge43]

53. Amazons are particularly adept at becoming house gods.

I see your gang loves them some pizza, too.

[stuntcat]

55. those two are beautiful

I'd love to have a parrot, the cats won't let me but if it wasn't for them we'd get one.

[Sequoia]

64. Oh, that's just great! Pizza!

[graywarrior]

13. Elephants can paint

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He7Ge7Sogrk

[MonkeyFunk]

41. well, it can be trained to hold a brush

and make particular movements. But it doesn't "know" it's painting an elephant.

[Orrex]

43. How do I know that you know that you're painting an elephant?

How do I know that I know, for that matter?

[MonkeyFunk]

49. nonetheless

that elephant was trained to make that particular combination of brush strokes. He didn't just do it on his own.

[Orrex]

76. Do you know that, or are you speculating?

I'm not refuting your claim, but I'd be interested to hear more about that. I've only watched/read a little bit about this particular elephant, so for all I know he's a one-trick, uh, pachyderm. Heck, even training the elephant to produce a given series of brush strokes would be pretty impressive.


Kind of like training an African Gray Parrot to make quasi-intelligible squawks that can later be passed of as cognitive speech.

[MonkeyFunk]

84. No, not speculating

I looked into it when I first saw the video a few months ago. It's an impressive feat, no doubt, but he was trained to make THAT painting.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/elephantpainting.asp

[Orrex]

85. Aaaaaghh! Fraud!

Well, sort of. As you say, it's an impressive feat in any case--just not the one that's suggested by the popular video.


I admit that I'm really disappointed. I so wanted this to be true as advertised.


Thanks for the link. I don't go on Snopes much anymore because I get a brazillion pop-ups, but this one is worth the click.

[MonkeyFunk]

86. so did I

it was such an impressive thing to see, I immediately ran with my laptop to show my bf. We were just amazed.

Then we started talking about it and thinking about it... and it just seemed unlikely. The depiction is a very modern human picture of an elephant. There's no reason to believe an elephant would draw much like modern western humans would.

[Orrex]

87. They would if they were *civilized* elephants

Since the modern western world is the pinnacle of civilization, and all that.

[harmonicon]

81. and play music!

None of the youtube videos that I could find are that good, but here's one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1NpvHsxjgw&feature=related

What the youtube videos don't mention is that once the elephants were given instruments, some would play them on their own, just for enjoyment - especially harmonicas, which are nice and portable.

[Orrex]

45. .

A differing view

[Sequoia]

63. What you said:

"It's somewhat odd that we judge animal intelligence on how well they learn our language when we don't understand hardly any of theirs."

The Native Americans back in the good old days (before Europeon destruction) could speak with animals and understand what they were saying.

[Orrex]

75. Uh. What?

The Native Americans back in the good old days (before Europeon destruction) could speak with animals and understand what they were saying.

Well, in Europe there was this guy whose war hammer would always return to him when thrown, and he had an iron glove that was impervious to extremes of heat and cold. He also had a belt that could double his already prodigious strength.

Wonderful stuff, history.

[MonkeyFunk]

90. oh please

Where do people get this stuff?

[WritingIsMyReligion]

79. I have one. There is no more beautiful thing with wings on this earth.

Her ability to imitate communication--moods, even--is astounding, whether by words or by sound. I may never know whether it is true in a human sense or not, but for her it is real, tender, and beautiful. I always know, in a deep and human sense, where she is in herself.

[Mojambo]

16. George Costanza covered this...

GEORGE: Do you think chickens have individual personalities?

KRAMER: (shivering) I don't know.

GEORGE: If you had like five chickens could you tell them apart by just the way they acted? Or would they all just be walking around? Bak, bak, baak, bak? Cause if they have individual personalities I’m not sure we should be eaten `em.

[Chan790]

22. Chickens have personalities...

they run the gamut from mean to miserable...but those are personalities none-the-less.

[Orrex]

46. Your human-centrism is shocking and offensive

Chickens have personalities... they run the gamut from mean to miserable...but those are personalities none-the-less.

I believe that should be chickenalities, you shameless humanophile.

[hobbit709]

17. Dogs can laugh at you

[kedrys]

21. Cats

Seriously. When Marble was ill, the other cats held a vigil for her on what turned out to be her last night. They knew. She was hiding in a long flat box, and they all parked in a semi-circle around the opening of the box.

Besides, what else can be at work when your cats answer to their nicknames as well as their names? They know which one they are.

Quark, aka Dave the White, looked for Caesar for days after Caesar passed away. He even piddled on a couple of Caesar's favorite nap spots to make sure the other cats wouldn't nap there.

[fizzgig]

37. cats know when someone they love is gone

or sick or sad or hurting.

when i was 14, my family had a little gray tabby kitten named bubba. bubba's mom came to us the year before when the people across the street (who were most certainly drug dealers) up and left in the middle of the night. the poor girl was feral and dropped two litters in our garage before we were able to catch her and find her a home. we kept one kitten from each litter. yossarian from the first, bubba from the second. the two of them were best friends.

anyway, bubba got into some antifreeze or something and died in april 1996. yossarian walked around crying for him for days and even took up napping in bubba's favorite spot on the couch. he napped there all the time until we got rid of that couch last summer.

[unpossibles]

71. I agree - my cat Gus is a total "comfort cat"

if you are feeling down or ill, he always comes and cheers you up, or at least sits with you if you're sick. He's quite affectionate.

My cats all have a variety of nicknames, and it's fun to use them. They totally know who I am talking to, and can even tell if we're making fun of them.

[wickerwoman]

95. Cats are definitely highly aware of what's going on.

Especially Siamese and related breeds who will talk back to you and can be trained to use a leash. Mine play fetch and can distinguish at least four different steps in the hallway (me- stand at the door and cry, the neighbor - ignore, delivery guys/meter maids/etc. - stand in the bedroom door ready to flee if necessary, my landlord - hide under the bed).

When I moved to my current apartment, my cats were a bit traumatized and lost for a few days. They spent all the time hiding behind the sofa and wouldn't sit out in the open. Their favorite toy in the whole world is my laundry rack and the second I unpacked it, I wish I had a picture, but you could absolutely see the thought snapping into place "Oh, we live here now." After that, they would lie around anywhere and generally make themselves at home.

Also, I travel around a lot so I used to have to leave them with pet-sitters for a week or two (never more than three). Now I'm moving to New Zealand from China but they won't let me import cats directly because China isn't a rabies controlled country. So I had to send them to the US to stay with relatives for six months. Apparently they were perfectly fine and well-adapted for the first three weeks and as soon as they hit that threshold for how long they'd been left alone in the past, they stopped eating and had to be hospitalized. They're better now, but nobody can convince me that they hadn't been thinking for the first three week, well, she'll be back soon and then when they hit three weeks got depressed.

[lost-in-nj]

23. I believe all animals are capable of thinking

and realization

if they know when you go to certain place with a treat
they have realized what they must do to get it

my dogs know words
my horse knows routine
but he also feels
and he knows when I am feeling down
and I know when he isn't 100%

all life is intelligent

some cannot express it
but they show it in other ways


some look you in the eye
and its DAMN I understand

NEVER UNDER ESTIMATE



lost

[JeffR]

24. Damn right, though there is one exception, of course...

... Republicans.

[Lorien]

26. True that! n/t

[lost-in-nj]

32. They were

never ever
in my radar!!!!!!


:rofl:

lost

[Robeson]

28. Beautiful post....

...thanks for that..:thumbsup:

[Lorien]

25. Most are capable of thinking

there was recently an article that someone here posted that said that scientists now believe that brain size has little to do with actual intelligence, which may change the way we evaluate intelligence in other species. After reading "the parrot's lament" and having had a huge assortment of pets over the years, I'm convinced that most have thoughts, feel emotions and may be self aware.

[LeftyMom]

27. These days I'm not sure about most human beings.

:shrug:

[DeepBlueC]

31. got that right

[Taverner]

33. You do make a point

Although I think Nietzsche said it right with "Madness is rare in individuals—but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule,"

[old mark]

50. At least not many Republicans:

How could they be that way if they were actually thinking beings?

mark

[DeepBlueC]

30. pigs, sheep

[I Have A Dream]

68. Very interesting. I'm not surprised about the pigs.

Would you please explain further about the sheep?

Thanks!

[DeepBlueC]

89. sheep recognize people and other sheep

even after years of separation and, in the case of the humans, visible aging. I read a long article about sheep smarts in some magazine, probably The New Yorker. Most of the interesting details, however, are lost up there in the dustbin of my mind. If I ever recover from heat exhaustion maybe I will try to search The New Yorker website for that article.

[Monk06]

34. Long haired Dachshunds. They don't say much but you know they're listening to

every word you say.

[Inchworm]

36. I'm going to take an agnostic approach to sentience(sp)

Since there is no way that I can know if it is there or not, I'll suppose it could be there in all creatures... or.. could not be in any.

:hi:

[stuntcat]

39. also the definition

the meanng of sentient doesn't have to be as simple as the way people mean it when they're saying animals can't think the way we do. Some kind of self meaning we can't know could belong to, like, sheep. And it wouldn't have a word.

[Fox Mulder]

38. All of them.

[SPKrazy]

40. I Think That Perhaps Dolphins, Whales, Chimps, Orangutans....

other than that I would say that it is mostly stimulus response

hell, I'm not even sure that humans are so darned sentient, certainly not many are self realized from my understanding of that term.

I might even venture to guess that there may be an animal species more evolved in that sense than we are, just not hellbent on destroying the planet

:shrug:

[Critters2]

42. Beagles. Don't let the act fool you. They know what's what!! nt

[Sequoia]

67. Charlie Brown and Lucy would certainly agree.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

44. all of them

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

47. Chimps are an absolute certainty (no Bush jokes, please)

They have been taught sign languages, and used them in a way that only sentient beings can. For instance, one experimenter purposefully annoyed one, and he replied: PLEASE - (NAME OF EXPERIMENTER) - GO - AWAY. (from Dragons in Eden by Carl Sagan)

Dolphins, whales, orangutans, and gorillas are good candidates too, although not nearly as certain.

It makes sense, since chimps are the nearest relatives of humans.

[BarenakedLady]

58. Crows are pretty damn smart

Great apes, of course.

Dolphins and elephants for sure...

I'll just go with all animals. :)

Except for Ben, he's a big lummox

[Shell Beau]

61. I used to have golden named Ben! Weird since it isn't really

a common dog name.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

59. Chimps and dolphins have been scientifically proven....

to be self-aware. They can recogonize themselves in mirrors -- other animals see their reflections and view it as another animal. I have have not seen anything on elephants in tghsi regard, but I wouldn't doubt it. If you really want to know just how intellectually advanced chimps are, read "Next of Kin" by Roger Fouts. It will break your heart but is completely enlighting. And you will never view animal testing on chimps inthe same way again. :cry:

As for thinking, I believe most mammals do -- ask any cat owner who has come home to find a pool of urine or poo in the middle of their bed because they did something their cat didn't like. :D That cat made a concious decision to fuck with their "owners".

[Sequoia]

62. Birds.

My little bird is very smart. He says words we never taught him. On the 4th of July he flew away and on July 13 found out he had flown clear across the road to a house on top of the hill. I was so happy I can't tell you. Considering all the cats, owl, crows, and hawks around it's a wonder he didn't get killed. About two days ago he said "Happy Tippy". When I come home he's glad to see me and wants to perch on my shoulder. We clipped his wings good and tight so he won't fly away again. When he goes to sleep, he says "Bye Tippy".

[unpossibles]

66. I'd agree with all 3, plus octopi and some birds

I guess it would depend how we define "thinking" because I've busted my cats and my dogs trying to be sneaky or at least rudimentarily planning ahead.

[applegrove]

70. My cat definitely doens't recognize herself in the mirror. She'll look

at anything in the reflection, including me, but avoids going eye to eye with herself at all cost.

[av8rdave]

73. Liberterians, maybe? Definitely not Republicans.

[Mutley]

77. Dogs

Self-realization is harder to prove with the language barrier, but they can think. That I'm sure of. I've seen it in my dogs many, many times.

I'm less sure of it with cats, but that's probably just the independence and aloofness hiding the thinking.

[Stuart G]

78. Elephants.

They are known to long for the dead.

[Monk06]

80. Lemme think about that. Hmmmmmmmmm

[libnnc]

82. I'm certain this one is

I've convinced myself that she loves me...

[stuntcat]

88. cats have love!

I know they do.. I just know it.

[ZombieHorde]

83. Humans.

[NewEnglandGirl]

92. All of them

They worry, show concern, show love, become depressed, grieve, show joy, even tease you and lots of other emotions. I believe that all of them have this capability.

[Starry Messenger]

93. Rats!

But I'm biased. I won't post pics since I know they ook people out.

Here's a good article:

http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun07/canrats.html

Covers more than rodents, too. No pictures.

But I swear that if rats developed thumbs they would take over the world.

MPK

[JeanGrey]

94. My mini-schnauzer. A smarter dog never walked. She

scares me at times.............. She has at least ten toys and I can tell her to go get a particular one, like the duck with the yellow head and she comes back with it.

She ran an entire dog course a friend was teaching (for two years) to her dog when she saw the other dog get a treat for doing it. I mean she just RAN it when the hand signal was given by the other lady to her dog. Then sat down and waited for her treat.

See?