The Carpenters: Evil Incarnate or Happy Pleasant Goodness?

[absyntheNsugar]

One cannot deny their acument, Karen had one of the most beautiful voices, and her brother was an amazing songwriter.

However, their music is, and will always be, schlocky pap. One wonders what their music would have been like if they confronted their inner demons with music rather than letting them get the best of them.

[Skittles]

1. they were good

Could they have been better? Maybe.

[quispquake]

2. Creepy music that sucks me in with it's evil powers...

There's a GREAT movie called "Superstar: The Karen Carpenter Story". It's the story of Karen Carpenter told totally with Barbie Dolls...it was done by Todd Haynes (Far From Heaven, Safe, Velvet Goldmine), and was almost immediately banned by both the Carpenter estate & Mattel (?!). I saw it in DC when it was shown for a VERY short time, and was completely blown away...a movie that of course we were first laughing at, but then the movie turns into this hard cased story on Anorexia...with Barbie Dolls...it was REALLY weird & disturbing...I left completely weirded out...

although banned, it's easily downloadable off the web, and I highly suggest checking it out!!!

[marigold20]

3. My little sister was devoted to the Carpenters.

n/t

[NightTrain]

4. Nicest thing I can say about the Carpenters: I don't hate them.

No, I'm not a fan. No, it wouldn't matter to me if I never heard another Carpenters record again. However, I just can't muster up the rage necessary to passionately hate their music.

No, that kind of rage I reserve for someone like Billy Joel. Not only do I loathe his music, but the man is a pompous, arrogant jerk-off. And unlike Karen Carpenter, Joel hasn't died yet! :grr:

[Supormom]

5. schlocky pap

Maybe, but I still get a warm and fuzzy feeling whenever I hear Rainy Days and Mondays.

[Rabrrrrrr]

6. Neither

Talented musicians who chose to use their talent for schlocky, pedantic uninteresting sophomoric "feel good" dumbed down nothingness.

Beautiful voice she had, and both extremely talented, but it's like they were locked in some sort of heroin-induced Cleaver mentality.

Watched a special on them on PBS a few weeks ago - great documentary of their lives, and no doubt great musicians.

But that music - ewwwwwwwwwwww. Not crap, but not very interesting.

But definitely not evil.

Not in the way that, as another poster pointed out, Billy "I Suck" Joel is crap. A a no-talent who puts out crap is all he is.

[carpetbagger]

7. Icons of Death Pop. They did confront inner demons w/ music.

All you need to do is to listen to an hour or so of their music and count up the number of times Karen Carpenter cries out for help.

Didn't seem like it at the time, but the anorexia thing makes you take a second look at the music. It's not as prospectively creepy as, say, Curt Cobain lighting up the black candles and moaning "Where did you sleep last night" on MTV, but retrospectively it's essentially watching a person self-destruct on an era-appropriate media, in this case AM radio and 8-tracks.

Once you're able to see it like that, the happy music seems a bit more of an abreaction than anything intentional. That's why I found it particularly attractive after the terrorist attacks. In the early and mid 70's, the height of Carpenter madness, my father used to get up every morning and go to work in One World Trade Center, and I used to go with him there from time to time on the weekend.

At any rate, Karen Carpenter beats the cr*p out of Whitney Houston, Christina Lopez, or any of the other modern-day pop stars who now compete for the MOR segment.

[absyntheNsugar]

8. OK...you've intrigued me

I had no idea one could pull that from their lyrics, but it really doesn't surprise me. After listening to the Beach Boys in that light (Brian Wilson is a SERIOUSLY tortured soul) the music took on a whole different meaning.

Which songs are examples of this? Would "Rainy Days and Mondays" be one of them - or was it even more subtle than that?


Talkin' to myself and feelin' old
Sometimes I'd like to quit
Nothing ever seems to fit
Hangin' around
Nothing to do but frown
Rainy Days and Mondays always get me down.

What I've got they used to call the blues
Nothin' is really wrong
Feelin' like I don't belong
Walkin' around
Some kind of lonely clown
Rainy Days and Mondays always get me down.

Funny but it seems I always wind up here with you
Nice to know somebody loves me
Funny but it seems that it's the only thing to do
Run and find the one who loves me.

What I feel has come and gone before
No need to talk it out
We know what it's all about
Hangin' around
Nothing to do but frown
Rainy Days and Mondays always get me down.

[blondeatlast]

12. Definitely this one--it's my favorite, but it is pretty gloomy.

I am an unabashed fan--most of it was crap, but when Karen and the song connected (as in this case) it transcended pop.

I can't help it; I loved them as much as I loved the Pretenders (as in, A LOT).

[absyntheNsugar]

15. Not only that, but on a relisten

I'm finding even her "Happy" tunes to be sung in an almost sarcastic tone.

For example, I'm listening to "We've Only Just Begun" and you can hear her voice mocking the lyrics in her tone - hard to explain but rsammel has got me thinking.

[blondeatlast]

17. You/rsammel may be on to something. I know her love life was

pretty disappointing to her (like I say, I'm an unashamed fan).

I'm listening to it now and geez, I do hear it. I really noticed it on the "to live..." phrase. She's not buying it.

[absyntheNsugar]

18. Are you talking about how her voice

almost winces (thats the best I can describe it) after she finishes "...to live"?

I noticed that too...

[blondeatlast]

19. Geez, that's it exactly. "Winces" is the right word.

That's just the thing. No gymnastics, but she had pure emotion in her voice.

Nobody's fine-combing Whitney or Mariah, I bet!

[carpetbagger]

14. Karen Carpenter's cries for help:

Rainy Days can be looked at in this way. I don't know how many of the lyrics Carpenter wrote for herself, but she certainly had latitude over what she chose to go with. That having been said, there's a number of things that just don't need to be in there if you're just trying to sing a song about gloomy days. Like "sometime's I'd like to quit, nothing ever seems to fit".

A few songs are actually better examples. I won't plaster the lyrics here but take a look at "Goodbye to Love" and "Won't last a day without you".

Then there's my sardonic comment about some songs being so happy that they seem to be abreaction. I had "Sing a Song" going through my head for about a week after the WTC got destroyed.

[blondeatlast]

16. Goodbye to Love could almost be a Smith's tune!

Karen moans better than Morrissey whines, though.

(Ducking inevitable flames)

[absyntheNsugar]

20. But remember

Morrissey was mocking self pity with his self pity...it seems Karen Carpenter was the real deal...

[Gloria]

9. However, I learned from the recent PBS special that they were the FIRST

to incorporate a really hard guitar riff in the middle of a ballad, something that is done now all the time. The guitarist was interviewed abou it...

I think the song was Goodbye to Love...Correct that if I'm wrong....

[blondeatlast]

13. Right--I saw that too. Richard said for him to just go with it.

Even at the time, I noticed it, and I was in my early, early teens.

[Bertha Venation]

10. they were great

I like them. I don't have raves, I just like them.

And I was a member of the chorus that opened the Richard and Karen Carpenter Performing Arts Center. That'll always be one of the highlights of my life -- even though local arts media wrote about the "opening" of CPAC months later with some other show. :eyes:

[absyntheNsugar]

11. What's the Richard and Karen Carpenter Performing Arts Center?

Is that a venue named after them?

[Bertha Venation]

21. it's in Long Beach, CA

http://www.carpenterarts.org/index2.asp

The Carpenters studied music at California State University, Long Beach. About ten years ago, Richard Carpenter put up $1M and the university built the Carpenter Performing Arts Center (CPAC). It's a wonderful venue.

[King_Crimson]

22. Their Christmas Album...

is a work of art...excellent! And that comes from a die hard Pink Floyd fan!!

[Enraged_Ape]

23. This Pink Floyd and Blue Oyster Cult fan loves that one too

Her version of the Bach Ave Maria on that album is one of the most beautiful things ever laid down on audio.

People can say anything they want to about the Carpenters, but there's no denying that they had a righteous talent. And Karen had one of the all-time greatest voices ever.