Scenario: Eminem uses the word "nig*a" to address one of his black friends

[private_ryan]

is he a racist? Also let's suppose that his friend doesn't mind at all when Eminem calls him "my nig*a" or something in that context.

this is a hypothetical of course and I just want to see other DUers think.

what do you think?

[mmm]

1. The guy is a no talent asshole

anti gay, anti black

[private_ryan]

5. a lot of people disagree with you on the no talent part

as far as being anti-black, have you ever seen the people he hangs out with /he employees?

it's easy to throw mud against a wall

[phrenzy]

6. You

I'm sure you are one of those people who thinks "Rap isn't music" - etc. Eminem is one of the best lyricists in the history of hip-hop - like it or not - even the most hard-core old school rappers admit it.

[CBGLuthier]

33. I think Rap is music

But I also think that Eminem sucks big time.

He is the Pat Boone of rap music.

The fact he is a misgynistic homophobe just adds to the entire pile of shit that little baby Mathers is.

[Dookus]

27. he's neither

anti-gay nor anti-black.


And to call him a no-talent is enormously ignorant. He's the most talented musician of the decade. And I say this as a gay man who's not a big fan of rap.

[ProfessorGAC]

31. Huh?

I'd buy that if one likes that form of music, he would be considered a good poet and a phraser of unique talent.

But, he's no musician. Even in his own VH1 biography, it's made fairly clear that the background music is left in the hands of the producers and engineers.

He might have a specific lift he wants to use as the background riff, but the music is constructed by someone else. That would make it difficult for him to be the most talented musician of the decade, wouldn't it?
The Professor

[private_ryan]

32. how about artist?

even Jay Leno and Letterman have writers that work for them.

[ProfessorGAC]

36. OK By Me

I'm just sensitive to the musician thing. Actually playing instruments, or writing an arranging the music for them is required for me to consider someone a musician.

Lyricist, artist, performer, whatever, are certainly all fair.

And i'm not an Eminem hater. I don't care either way, as it's not my cup of tea. But, as rap goes, the phrasing sounds pretty unique to me.

So, he's ok with me, but i do think the "punk" image is fake.
The Professor

[mac56]

34. "The most talented musician of the decade"?!

Oh, puh-leeze.

He's a no-talent, overhyped, homophobic, misogynistic assclown whose fifteen minutes should have been over a long time ago.

Before long, he'll be appearing on "Hollywood Squares".

[private_ryan]

35. it's all relative

let's see the reaction he gets in a stadium and let's see what you get. And not all his fans are straight white males...

[mac56]

37. Huh?

"Let's see the reaction he gets in a stadium, and let's see what you get."

Lots of divisive, hate-spewing people get overwhelming reactions in stadiums. Read a little history.

[private_ryan]

38. that's why people cheer him

becuase he "hates" women and gays, right?
It's called denial, hate the guy all you want...

[mac56]

39. I think you're misusing the term "denial".

DENIAL: In the simplest terms, denial is a way of saying that something that is too painful to deal with is simply not so. It is the kind of disbelief that follows hearing about the sudden death of someone who is near and dear. "I can't believe it" is really a form of "I don't want to believe it."

What, exactly, am I in denial about here?

And I have no idea why people cheer lots of sucky things. Stupidity, I guess. Mr. Mathers is just another item on a long, long list.

[phrenzy]

2. No It is not

I spent 6 months in county Jail - It was such a common way of addressing people my black buddies told me to just say "My Nig" - So, I did - no problem. Those guys were fuckin hilarious too - they would talk shit all day.

[iluvchicago86]

3. Well if his friends don't mind

then all of them have some racial issues. All to often kids my age throw around the N word jokingly(even if theyre white) and fail to see the problem with including that word in our daily vernacular. It seems childish in my opinion because it shows they have no real clue of what that word means.

[private_ryan]

11. why racial issues?

deep inside them they know /feel that he is not a racist. Their black friends call each other that, what's the difference if a white boy who's been their friend for years does the same?

[iluvchicago86]

12. I find that its simply immature to use the N word

Along with other racial epithets. If a person I consider a friend uses it around me then I get offended because it packs so much hate and rudeness into one word. I don't think it really matters if they have been friends for 11 days or 11 years...same stuff applies. And it is sad IMO if they find it permissible to use that word. But i suppose to each their own.

[Kenneth ken]

16. words

mean what people decide they mean. I think it would be a great thing if younguns today got past the racist-hate aspect of the word; and by heavy usage transformed it from a hateful word to an empty word.

I will concede that it might take another 50 or more years, mostly for people who define the word as racist and hate-filed to die off; but I can envision a time when the word has lost its current slur meaning.

[iluvchicago86]

21. Yeah I suppose it's up to each person

The use of hate words has gotten so superfluous that no one my age really bats an eye upon hearing them. Just like "gay"...used to mean "happy" but now means "homosexual", it all depends of what culture makes of it.

[SOteric]

4. I think most people who we think of as 'white'

do not have a right to that word.

I'm not an African American/Black woman. I can't truly know what the life experiences of a person of colour are in our culture and society. The use of that word is a decision entirely at the descretion of those who do know those life experiences.

To me, the word seems wrong if it comes from the lips of anyone not black. And honestly, I question whether there aren't times that if feels wrong then, too, - though I don't feel that's my judgment to make.

[iluvchicago86]

9. You know what I don't get

I fail to see how an african-american person can use that word and get away with it but if a white dude uses it , it's as if you just ripped up a picture of the pope in church. I just don't understand how people sort of shrug it off , you know?

[SOteric]

15. I think I can see why it might be acceptable

amoung persons of the same race.

As an somewhat limited analogy, I'm underwhelmed in the extreme when most men with whom I'm little acquainted use the term 'bitch.' Only in certain aspects of our modern culture would it be the least acceptable for a man to address a woman as 'my bitch,' 'that bitch,' 'hey bitch,' 'you bitch' or even just 'bitch.' It's a term that carry's oppressive connotations with it.

At the same time, one of my closest friends and I often pull a humourous face at one another and say the word 'bitch.' It doesn't have the feeling that someone I've known so well, who is the same gender as I, would use the term to oppress me. In fact, from her it very much seems an endearment. But I conceive nonetheless that if her boyfriend overheard the term and wanted to play to, it would just feel very, very wrong. No matter how much I liked him.

The "N" word carries much harsher connotation and is a word with much greater potential for oppression.

[iluvchicago86]

19. "bitch" is quite the popular word

Among us hip kids today. Not only do many boys use it as a synonym for "woman" but they use it when describing physical places as well. For example one guy i know called out to his friend " we are gonna be rollerblading up in this bitch", bitch meaning "gymnasium". It's quite ridiculous..:crazy:

[Dookus]

26. I'm a rarity....

I'm a very self-aware, empowered gay man who ADORES Emimem. I think he's brilliant. His impact will be as huge as Elvis'. He's the mosst amazing lyricist in 50 years.

I honestly believe we'll think of Eminem the same way we think of the Beatles 30 years from now.

[mmm]

7. he has a turd brain

p diddy has half of a turd brain

[private_ryan]

8. Ok, Einstein

please stop wasting your time here, we need you to work on a cancer cure ASAP.

[Pert_UK]

10. Several ways of looking at it.....

1. meaning consists of use. If he is not using the word to be racist, then no it isn't racist. No racist intent=not racist, regardless of the ethnicity of the person using the word.

However,

2. there are definite racist connotations to that word. If a black person were to hear and take offense at Eminem using the word "nigger" then it is racist. You cannot separate the intent of the person using the word from the likely interpretation of someone hearing it. The term is too loaded to ever be regarded without racist overtones (when used by a white person).

3. Doesn't a serious discussion like this belong in GD, not the lounge?

Just a thought.

P.

[PennyLane]

13. New Millenium Poet

Eminem is a poet of this age, whether you like him or not. I happen to think he is brilliant. As to whether he has the right to call others "my nig*a" or not, I would have to say if they didn't want it, he'd have been shot years ago. He's paid his dues so to speak in that ring of society.

[private_ryan]

14. the funny part is that he DOESN'T call them that

and my belief is because he'd be called a racist right away and he rather not deal with it.

He uses a better word, calls them dawgs :)

[Cocoa]

17. I'd be surprised if he used that word

He seems to be in tune with black culture, and would know how hurtful the word is, especially coming from a white person.

[private_ryan]

18. nig*a these days is not the same as nig*er

it might techinally be the same but it doesn't mean the same thing on the streets.

[phrenzy]

22. Exactly

I'm always amazed how often my fellow liberals are so clueless about the reality of the streets. I've seen it so many times - The streets are down and dirty and people from that life respect somebody who can communicate on that level.

[Nevernose]

24. That all depends on who's doing the talking

A lot of black guys I know don't want to hear nig*a from a white guys lips. Period. It doesn't matter if the white guy is Eminem or Michael Jackson, there are certain people of color that white boys just don't say the word in front of, at all, regardless of where one puts the inflection on or omits a phoneme.

[private_ryan]

29. it maybe true and a lot wouldn't mind unless you meant it as a nigg*r

of course you can't just walk up to someone you don't know and say that.

But my post was more to see what us would think if for example Eminem had run for office, and someone said he used the nigg* word a few years ago. That's all.

[phrenzy]

20. A great line about how conscious HE himself is of this

From the Song "Criminal"

"I drink malt LIQUOR
to fuck you up QUICKER
than you'd wanna fuck me up for sayin the word ..." ::SILENCE::

classic

[iluvchicago86]

23. Strikes a chord

In my poetic soul.:puke:

[sandnsea]

25. Your post hits it

I always sort of understood that he was exposing the truth about white America and talking about things he knew about and using language that kids use today. I don't know if his style is helpful to race and social problems or not, but I never really understood him as a racist, woman hater or homophobe. Some things he raps about are the crazy thoughts people have sometimes when they're pushed to the edge. And I think he's really talented.

[piece sine]

28. you mean Academy Awarding winner songwriter Eminem

he can -- and does -- say anything he wants. Red he made $70 million last year. How much had he given to Dean?

[DrGonzoLives]

30. "nigga" and "nigger" are different

The first is simply the same as saying "pal," or "buddy," or whatever. The second is a disgusting racist epithet.

"Nigga" evolved as a way to turn the word back around on people who used it as a symbol of racism.