Anyone concerned if the DNC/DLC tries to nominate Lieberman?

[Kanola]

I am getting the impression they are not comfortable with Dean. How do we get a message across to the DNC/DLC that Lieberman is not how we are going to win the presidency?

[w13rd0]

1. Generally speaking...

...phone calls, letters, the primary, fundraising. Let Lieberman wither on the vine for lack of supporters and funds. He can stamp his ass with all his corporate endorsements from bomb making companies and see how that goes over...

[44wax]

I agree

He may be the only Dem I will not vote for. Anyone but Joey Bombs.

[ewagner]

2. Process

I think the answer lies in the process of electing delegates to the convention. Most states have pretty strict rules about who goes to the convention and to whom they must be committed (I think they have to pledge to stay committed for at least one round of voting on the convention floor)by either primary or caucaus.

Just take care that the process itself isn't hijacked.

[wtmusic]

3. I guess Lieberman IS that stupid

He's already calling Dean a 'dead-end' candidacy. These guys are going to be buried. He can play cards with Shrubya in retirement for all I care.

[DagmarK]

5. Maybe he will take the DLC down with him.........

It's hot in hell, and even Lieberman deserves a bit of company.

I think Al From is setting Lieberman up......trying to take Lieberman out of the game to install Kerry.

[wtmusic]

6. Interesting idea

but a bit convoluted. If he can pull that one off he deserves more credit than I ever gave him.

[whirlygigspin]

4. the DLC support

Leibermint & Kerry.

How's that for the kiss of death?
"the DLC supports me!"

[VoteClark]

7. The DNC and DLC will Back Clark, so relax

[Pallas180]

8. Kerry will be the DLC's nominee, not Lieberman, and if you dont

like it get the phone number of the DLC's headquarters
phone number, call them up, and tell them YOU are a
REAL democrats and teh DLC is not. That you wont vote
for them, and if they put up someone who is not the peopple's
choice - you wont vote. That if they dont stop bashing other
Dem candidates on air and in public, they will be assuring a
bushit win.

use your fingers, get info and call.

Forget e mail.

[MercutioATC]

9. Pallas is corect

Kerry seems to be the DLC's new golden boy. If you have an issue with the way the DLC has been behaving, the best bet is to let them know. Remember, they have to be right to survive. Convincing them that they'll live another season if they back is the only way to make yourself hear.

I personally believe that they exist only for their own sakes and we would do well without them. However, they DO represent a not inconsiderable measure of funding, so I wish all of the canddates the best in securing their backing.

[blm]

11. Bullshit...the DLC caved to the left wing and that

still isn't good enough. You'd RATHER have a compromising centrist like Dean than a lifelong liberal.

From never liked Kerry and for him to give up on the centrists to let Kerry have any DLC support is CLINTON'S DOING. You people sure can be obtuse when it suits Dean's case.

[MercutioATC]

13. How is stating an opinion on the DLC/Lieberman/Kerry issue being obtuse?

Yes! I WOULD have a centrist than a liberal. I'd rather have a pragmatist than an idealist. Can we stop arguing this issue?

I'm simply observing that the DLC liked Lieberman until they saw his numbers. Kerry's numbers look good now, so the DLC is now backing him. I personally think that the race will stay Dean/Kerry - Kerry/Dean with the two trading the lead for quite a while. If, however, Kerry's numbers dropped and he became the 3rd or 4th place candidate, you don't think the DLC would change their minds again?

They're opportunists who'll almost always back the lead horse.

[blm]

14. You can't admit that From CAVED to the left...

he caved and the complaints are still there.

I guess SBNA Dean supporters would be thrilled if the centrist DLC backed THEIR candidate who actually IS a compromising centrist. Now THAT would be some victory. heheh.

[ProfessorPlum]

15. "heheh" . How droll.

I have an actual question for you. Can you explain why the DLC, which is centrist, would rather back Kerry than Dean? I can't figure that out.

[blm]

17. Ever see best friends turn on each other?

Best of friends turn into the worst of enemies.

Dean was with them for years, a perfect example of their style of governance. The DLC had no problem with him when he first started campaigning for most of 2002 because he was campaigning as a centrist. After the antiwar movement grew and the perception became that he was a liberal, his support numbers and $$$$$ from the liberals started flowing.

To insure that flow, he began a populist rhetoric that turned against the DLC portraying centrism and compromise as the Republican wing of the party where he represented the Democratic wing. He even referred to opponents way to his left as "Bushlite".

The more he spoke out the more $$$$$ came his way from the left. He changed his whole campaign, including dumping his longtime moderate campaign manager for Trippi, and targeted other Democrats to glorify and enrich himself. His 7 month conversion to populism may be acceptable to some of you, but, I see a political opportunist. He dissed his DLC friends and misrepresented more liberal candidates as unrepresentative of Democrats. He's duplicitous.

[ProfessorPlum]

19. I suppose you can view everything through that

cynical lens. But be careful who you focus it on - you might be surprised at who else look like political opportunists.

[burr]

10. Lieberman is sending this message for us.

He now believes that shrub's tax cuts are the greatest thing since the third reich. Was he expressing anger at the fact that Dean has stolen the issue of balancing the budget and fiscal resposibility.. from the DLC? Or is it a growing regret that he did not vote in favor of shrub's budget busting tax cuts?

And of course he again attacked the Gephardt plan, which repeals the shrub tax cut plan in favor of giving workers and companies a 60% tax deduction for what they pay in premiums. Why is this referred to as "old style big government?"

My impression was that the Gephardt plan would have been the type of initiative that the DLC would have once proposed themselves. But that was before the last election, which CHANGED EVERYTHaNG including GOD'S ASS! My best friend is Jewish, and like me votes Democratic. He said to me as we were watching Lieberman's remarks, "no sane Jew that I know will waste time on him."

But then again he is in the reform branch, not the orthodox wing that Lieberman is in. And as he explained to me last night, politically they are light years apart! According to my friend, most orthodox Jews usually vote Republican, not Democratic.

[ProfessorPlum]

12. "I am getting the impression they are not comfortable with Dean."

I'm getting that "impression" too. What was your first clue?

(Sorry if I just missed the sarcasm in your first post - the DLC has pretty much stated that they hate Dean, for some reason I can't figure out).

[SGrande]

16. *SLAPS FOREHEAD*

*catches breath*

OKAY, for the last fucking TIME!

The DLC IS NOT THE DNC!!!!

The DNC is elected by your state committees, which is a body within your state party.

The DNC has 15 seats allocated to interest groups, students, african americans, hispanics, asians , labor, etc

Then there are 100 other members, 2 per state. One is the chairman, who is elected by the Precinct Workers\Committee people who are elected by the precincts during the primary every two years AND each state gets to elect member to servce on the DNC as well, kind of like an "at large" person.

So each state gets 2 and there are 15 other seats plus the chairman of the DNC, Terry McCaullife. Each get ONE vote.

That is the DNC, its is NOT some smoke filled room where a few decide the fate of the party.

EVERYONE in the DU could serve as a member of the DNC if you wanted to, but you have to be active within the state parties

[Nicholas_J]

18. THe DLC has decided...

Dean will not be the nominee.

They have the power to make that statement true.

They will use it...

If they have to attakc Deal real record as governor they will do so.

Cenesus stats reveal that far from increasing the number of people with insurance coverage while Dean was governor. th numbers of uninsured increased. Lieberman becoming the anti-Dean in last nights speech is the beginning. Kerry attacking Deans statements about repealing the Bush tax cuts amounting to a tax increase on the middle class from a few days ago is another start. The next thing will be to point out Deans repeal of the taxcut was initially going to be used to provide instant Universal Health Care. Next statement will be that he is going to raise their taxes and give them nothing for it.

Kucinich already is manuvering by stating that incrementally trying to solve the Health Crisis islike trying to get across a canyon in two jumps. Dena has had two years of attacking theDLC and the other democrats without so much as a real peep from them. All Dean has been able to attack them on is the war in Iraq, which is proving pa popular move, and signing the partiot act. The democrats and republicans have a full ten years of Dean's records to go over. Dean opposing taxing the rich to save health benefits to medicaid recipients, and giving tax cuts that favored the richj. Literally hundreds of examples of Dean screwing the middle class and favoring the rich and big business over his ten years for democrats to make Dean a great target for attack. Repubicans can used the Civil Unions act and a number of other Dean decisions to atack Dean.

Dean problem in ding whaqt he loves, defying catagorization, may have worked in a tiny state, where he was a big fish, in a small pond. But in the shark pool of national politics, he may be made himself seem to be good eatin for both sides. Dean has no one willing to defend him or watch his back. Even Edwards and Kerry looked out for each other when Dean was making his attacks on them. And Edwards, and Kerry looked out for Graham after Deans comments. Even McCain is looking out for Kerry and attacking Dean.


Dean only looks good when the is up against no one. When he is on the state with others, his demeanor changes and even his own supporters wonder about him not being up to his ususla standards in these situations. I bet it is seen again tonight at the AFL-=CIO debates. HE is like a rich kid who is only brave when his bodyguards are around. He is much more quite when he is on his own.

[ProfessorPlum]

21. But that's stupid

repealing a tax cut isn't the same as a tax increase - it just takes you back to where you were when you started.

Unless you are saying that Kerry, who is the true liberal according to you, supports Bush's horrible tax cut? That makes no sense.

[Nicholas_J]

23. Kerry wishes

To repeal only the portions that greatly favor the wealthy.
Dean wishes to repeal the entire tax cut...

Now if you are nor paying a thousand dollars in taxes and some guy repeals the cuts that brought it down from 1500 to 1000 what does that do to your taxes...IT RAISES them. So repealing a tax cut, increases taxes. AS Dean did the opposite in Vermont, when He repealed a three tiered income tax, he cut taxes for the rich at a higher level than he did for the poors and middle class, giving the rich a better deal

And at the debates, Dean pointing out that it is a choice, you can choose to have tax cuts, or you can choose to have health insirance that no one can taks away from you.

It seems that Dean has shown his hand, He is going to repeal the tax cuts, and give nothing in return for them (well incrementally, meaning that they may see something for their tax increases SOMEDAY.

Sorry, Dean has ALREADT had to Deal with that question from Russert.

Dean tried to skirt the issue that repealing the tax cuts esentally increasses the tax rates , by stating that they would be used to provide a service for the increase. Now the tax cuts will disappear, but Dena has decided he is not going to provide the service.

Now are you guys going to try to start spinning it so that it looks like Dean NEVER intended to provide health insurance for the millions without it immediately, changing again, and again, what Dean implied countless times, in order to gain support?

[ProfessorPlum]

24. Dean really is a horrible shithead and the root of all evil.

You know something? Bush has promised to cut taxes EVERY YEAR that he is in office. And those are promises he will keep. We'll see how much cutting we'll have to suffer through until someone is willing to stand up and say STOP!

[dolstein]

20. I hate to break it to you, but the DLC/DNC doesn't nominate

the voters do that. And I doubt that the leaders of the DLC and DNC are going to unite behind a single candidate anyway. The membership of the DLC and DNC is far more diverse than anyone around here is willing to admit. Hell, even Dean was a DLC member at some point in his political career.

It's been at least 40 years, and probably much longer than that, since a bunch of fat, cigar-smoking men actually sat down in some back room to decide who the party's presidential nominee was -- and if you actually go back and read the history books, you'll find that many open conventions weren't decided on the first ballot. Usually the only person who can truly control the nominating process is an incumbent president -- for instance, Taft was able to fight off a challenge from former president Teddy Roosevelt. But even that's hard to do these days, when most delegates are selected by primary voters.

[SGrande]

22. preach it brotha!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

25. Yeah, calm down and get real

Yeah, calm down and get real. If your candidate wins the primaries s/he will be the nominee. Nothing else matters. The DLC or any other group can plot strategy to try to beat the Republicans and I say more power to them. So what if they are more conservative than me, disagree with me, or want to eat puppies? Politics is about picking sides. In America we have two sides, despite what some idealists want to believe. The country is going to divide into two teams for this election. The way to win is by choosing a bigger, more motivated team. Then after we win and have power we can fight it out about policy issues - with the ability to do something about it.

I often think about some phone polling I did for a campaign once. I strongly objected to one of the questions, which asked something like, "would you choose jobs or protecting the environment?" Well of course it's a totally false choice, and I objected to even asking a question that suggested it was a choice. But it was explained to me that the point of the polling was to identify the voters most likely to vote for us. We wanted to know which team the voter would pick. So the most divisive push-button question is the perfect one to ask. Maybe the right answer doesnt fit into column A or column B, but we wanted to know which column the voter would check anyway.

So let's choose a big, big team. I don't think we have to worry about the possibility of Joe being the quarterback - not gonna happen.