Are the anti-Kerry brigade actually pawns of Nixon and the GOP?

[SGrande]

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061703.shtml

Colson, in a secret memo, revealed he had a mission to target Kerry: "Destroy the young demagogue before he becomes another Ralph Nader."


----------------------------------------------------------------------
"But at the same time, many of the issues that Nixon and his aides raised more than 30 years ago about Kerry still remain. Echoes of Colson's words can still be heard in Washington: "He's politically ambitious and just looking for an issue, a phony."

Yet even Nixon described Kerry as an articulate and impressive spokesman. The Nixon White House began an investigation of Kerry. Who was he, the Nixonites wanted to know. What was his real motivation? And how could they stop him?"
----------------------------------------------------------------------


"How do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam?" Kerry asked. "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?" Attacking the Nixon White House, he said, "This administration has done us the ultimate dishonor. They have attempted to disown us and the sacrifices we made for this country."

[SGrande]

1. The White House feared him like no other protester.

[DrFunkenstein]

20. Link This PLEASE!!!

I've been dying to find it!

[SGrande]

37. read the original post, its all there, link included

[ProfessorPlum]

2. I would say "Yes, you're on to us"

if I were anti-Kerry :)

[SGrande]

5. hehe

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. With regards to LSdemocrat:

[SGrande]

4. wow, avoid the question!

The "Aloof" and "fake" comments started back in the 1970s with Nixon and his Cabal...and nieve Democrats are being led around by the nose by the same tactics.

lol, its so funny.

pst...take the red pill

[AnnabelLee]

6. Perhaps it would be easier to answer the question

if you would tell us exactly who the "anti-Kerry brigade" consists of.:-)

[SGrande]

7. Well, thats a fair question

I dont mean anyone who supports someone else, or just doesn't like him.

I mean the vicerol posters, who teeter totter on getting banned each post, who scream in every post we, kerry supporters, post about the man "HE VOTED FOR THE WAR"

"HE's an ALOOF PRICK"

and all sorts of idiotic statements like that.


I've looked at all the candidates, I was a Dean supporter up until 3 weeks ago when I went to a Meetup and got scared to death by the crazies at the Dean meetup.

But my point is that he isn't aloof at all, if youve seen him speak. They pick out videos that show him off his ball and act like thats how he is in every speech.Hell, I was a howard dean supporter back in 2001 when he was crisscrossing the country as the Governor of Vermont speaking at Democratic events. Ive seen fiery speeches of him then, but at a JJ dinner, he bored the crowd to tears ...

But the same "planted" spin by the Nixon Administration is still alive and well with some anti-kerry supporters who just cannot think cognativly for a second to accept anything except "pure" pacifism.

[sfecap]

9. The Nixon Administration has been gone for 30 years...

How could they affect Kerry's campaign now?

All of the candidates get a bashing here...it's just politics.

[AnnabelLee]

10. Do you have any links or cites

that provide any proof that "vicerol posters, who teeter totter on getting banned each post, who scream in every post we, kerry supporters, post about the man "HE VOTED FOR THE WAR" are connected or have been in contact with the GOP? I think it might be safe to say that no one can be a pawn of Nixon--he's dead, after all.

[SGrande]

13. You don't want to start this post again, trust me :)

we went through this already, and 1 of them is in this thread, he's on ignore right now. I am very new here, and I posted one thread, and I have over 100 responses in that thread where I was called a "secret Rovian operative" and other such nonsense, attacked and slandered. You can search for the the thread, plus there are more in the general discussion thread.

I wanted to leave this forum and I was thinking about not voting in 2004 because if this was the "true" face of the Democratic party, i wanted no part of it. But a BUNCH of Dean supporters messaged me, asking me to stay and pleaded that its only a few bad apples that make everyone look bad and that most posters on the DU are nice people. So i just ignored them,like the one in this thread.

They attack me, i ignore them...
:)

[AnnabelLee]

17. I didn't understand your answer

Do you have any links or cites that provide any proof that "vicerol posters, who teeter totter on getting banned each post, who scream in every post we, kerry supporters, post about the man "HE VOTED FOR THE WAR" are connected or have been in contact with the GOP?

[SGrande]

21. If you'd like to go dig up that thread, go ahead :)

but see I dont have the "search" function activated.

Though I plan to donate $35 next paycheck, on the 15th. :)

so i will have that ability soon

[AnnabelLee]

26. Please clarify...

are you saying that the thread to which you are referring contains links or cites that provide any proof that "vicerol posters, who teeter totter on getting banned each post, who scream in every post we, kerry supporters, post about the man "HE VOTED FOR THE WAR" are connected or have been in contact with the GOP?

[SGrande]

28. for the love of god...letme go find it, second

[SGrande]

33. this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=8369&mesg_id=8369

Plus there is another in General Discussion where I was attacked, and thats where i started putting people on ignore, rather than respond to them.

Remind you, this is one of my first couple days here, so i was new at this

[ProfessorPlum]

40. Oh for God's sake

talk about generating heat and not light. You throw a stinkbomb onto the board with that thread title and are surprised that it gets 'ugly'?

I think you're just having fun bashing. Whatever, dude. Sorry you had one bad Dean meetup.

[SGrande]

42. Hey, i expect to get "drilled"

but not insulted personally and cursed at, that goes too far.

[ProfessorPlum]

50. You really are new at this

if you think that was cursing or insulting. But I've got plenty of both for people who bend the truth the way you do if you are interested.

[SGrande]

54. how have I bent the truth?

[AnnabelLee]

49. I read the thread through twice

I saw nothing to indicate to me that anyone who posted in that thread is a pawn of a man who has been dead for close to ten years or of the GOP.

[ProfessorPlum]

52. Thanks AnnabelLee

Why am I not surprised?

[SGrande]

56. read above post...again

[SGrande]

55. what in the world

your question was not about the Nixon pawn thing?

You asked a question asking for quotes that show people attacked me:

"are you saying that the thread to which you are referring contains links or cites that provide any proof that "vicerol posters, who teeter totter on getting banned each post, who scream in every post we, kerry supporters, post about the man "HE VOTED FOR THE WAR"

I showed you such a thread.

The question of this thread is that is all this anti-kerryism linked back to the Nixon plan back in 1972 to stop John kerry from entering the national stage and upstaging Richard Nixon

[ProfessorPlum]

59. The non-joke answer is

NO. Although I'm not anti-Kerry, I am anti-stupid questions.

[AnnabelLee]

60. No

My question was the same question I originally asked you in my post #10:

Do you have any links or cites that provide any proof that "vicerol posters, who teeter totter on getting banned each post, who scream in every post we, kerry supporters, post about the man "HE VOTED FOR THE WAR" are connected or have been in contact with the GOP? I think it might be safe to say that no one can be a pawn of Nixon--he's dead, after all.

Nowhere did I ask you for quotes showing that people attacked you. If that is your contention, please show me where I aked that of you.

[SGrande]

63. It looks like I never read your question all the way through ....

sorry, i was rushing.

[ProfessorPlum]

66. so basically

you don't have anything to back up your initial claim? Why am I wasting my time with you?

[SGrande]

71. notice the ? in yellow, it was a question

from an article in a Boston paper talking about Nixon's anti-Kerry campaign

[AnnabelLee]

68. Very understandable

I think almost everyone has been guilty of doing that at one time or another, I know that I certainly have. But, my question still stands:

Do you have any links or cites that provide any proof that "vicerol posters, who teeter totter on getting banned each post, who scream in every post we, kerry supporters, post about the man "HE VOTED FOR THE WAR" are connected or have been in contact with the GOP?

[SGrande]

70. Short answer is no because it was just a question

Basically, i found that article while searching google for the Kerry video I saw at the kerry meetup and i found that article.

And the quote i put in bold was the one that glared at me throughout the article, that 30 years later, the echos in washington are still that kerry is this aloof guy who faked his vietnam record and is really a greedy, selfish politco out for power and greed.

He is far from that, but its the kind of responses ive gotten in some of the threads in general discussion. I mean if they want to support Dean, thats fine, but they are letting echos from 1972 lead them to that conclusion.

If the war resolution vote is the #1 thing in their mind to vote for a candidate, then Kerry is not their guy, but it was just amazing to me to see the same arguments popping up that were spread by the Nixon Whitehouse (according to that article)

[ProfessorPlum]

73. You know what is interesting is that the Globe itself

has done its level best to screw Kerry over recently. I think they probably know the answer to your question better than anyone here would.

[SGrande]

74. Really?

I had heard that before, that the Boston Press was really mean to Kerry in the 96 campaign?

God I hate how the Press picks on certain candidates, ie: what they were doing to Dean before he was cock of the walk. Before his grassroots army came about, they were trashing him left and right. But yet, they just left out during 2000 that Bush went to THE racist college of the south, Bob Jones University.

[ProfessorPlum]

76. Where have you been?

The Globe has very recently been publishing editorials about Kerry's heritage, like there is something to smear him with. It's all just innuendo, and horrible race-baiting innuendo at that.

Bush's visit to BJU was reported during the campaign, though you are right if you are saying they didn't make nearly enough stink about it. Just par for the course in the wink and nod world of unspoken racism which drives the GOP.

[ProfessorPlum]

29. ok, well get back to us when you have something to back up what

you are saying. It's a waste of time to have something unsubstantiated and with that clumsy lie about the Dean meetup, I'm finding you completely untrustworthy as an information source.

I mean, that's just not cool, man, to just make sh*t up.

[SGrande]

34. umm, wtf read, above, thread "lol, here ya go"

lol

[SGrande]

35. read post #23

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SGrande]

47. please do not tell me to shut the fuck up

[ProfessorPlum]

51. nice tactic

to remove my excellent :) post and then repeat the only salient part of it!

[SGrande]

57. thats why it was removed :)

[ProfessorPlum]

61. yeah, but you just repeated it

so what was the point again, exactly? (salient means "important" or "crucial" in case you didn't know).

[SGrande]

64. because you directed at me, i was restating it directed at no one

Its not illegal to curse, but it is illegal to directly tell someone to shut the fuck up

[ProfessorPlum]

67. Ok well

you've got me reeling with your dazzling use of logic there, bud.

[SGrande]

14. hrm, i wonder who the ignored person in this thread is?

hrmmmm!

[Nazgul35]

18. this is a new one....

before you went off Dean becuase of the nasty Dean posters here...

In another thread I encouraged you to go to a Dean meetup/Kerry meetup and make an informed decision...seems that in two days this has happened....

I question your veracity when you complain about the nasty Dean supporters who tunred you off to the candidate....while at the same time ignoring some of the same types of people who say they support Kerry....Many of your threads posses titles that are sure to bring a response from Dean supporters....

Now this new claim that it was a Dean meetup that tunred you off to Dean....

Could you please name the city and place where the meetup occuried? That can easily be checked...

As for myself...i've been to several meetup and have found nothing by thoughtful, carring, passionate people who have one goal in common...saving this country from the idiot in charge....in fact, most of the Dean supporters i've talked to are more then ready to work for any democratic candidate that wins the nomination....

so your description of these so called "crazies" belies almost every account anyone has made about Dean Meetups...I would suggest that in fact you never went to a mettup and have started using this "NEW" excuse as a pretend reason for not supporting Dean...

[SGrande]

23. lol, sure, here ya go

I was visiting my friend, Sam Holdren in Phoenix Arizona. It was about 2 months ago and we went to Bandersnatch Brew pub on 5th St and Forest Ave in Tempe Arizona.

Sam is gay and told me about this guy "Dean", as i had already seen him speak a few times, I was down.

A woman named Carolyn Maxon started off the meeting, first bitching about Bandersnatch and scolding whoever voted for it,(sam did) and then bitching how long a drive it was.

Then she went into the DLC, how evil they were, for 30 god damn minutes

Mind you, she had not even mentioned Dean yet, except for a few little quotes.

Then she tried to play a video, of the SF dinner, which she then paused to bitch more about the DLC. This is the point where about 15 of us ( out of about 40) got up and left and decided to not support Howard Dean.

This is all while she was yelling and screaming at us into the parking lot, calling us "GOP scumbag operatives"

you can check www.deanforaz.com and search under contacts, Carolyn Maxon is the Maricopa County director\supervisor and I will never support Howard Dean because of that night.

edited for spelling

[ProfessorPlum]

38. Well, at least you have a good reason for not supporting Dean

I thought maybe it had something to do with his positions or something.

[SGrande]

41. If you were there, you'd understand

that woman was positivly nuts. I called the State Coordinator and I called the Dean campaign, that night, and both apologized to me profusly, which is why Bruce Martin is now the Meetup guy, and I told both the national and Frank Constanzo, the state director, that Id give it another try because I really like his signing of the civil unions bill...

I walked into the next one, which was at a coffee house in Phoenix, (guess Carolyn had her way) and SHE WAS THERE again.

Im sorry, if you met this loony tune, you would think twice.

I might even end up voting for Dean, when all is said and done, but ill make that personal choice when i setup into that booth; but as far as working to elect a Democrat, I won't work with a campaign that empowers someone like that

(spelling)

[ProfessorPlum]

44. Mighty big of you

.

[SGrande]

46. Well, its why you want professional staff

in each state, not a volunteer running the show , because THAT is what happens. if Frank had been there(he seemed really nice) Im sure he would of shut her up, and Id have a Dean sign next to my name, but he wasn't.

I went to the most recent Kerry meetup with about 40 people and it was great, they played a video, handed out all this stuff made by the Kerry camp for Meetup, introduced themselves to us, told us what was going on etc

Thats what a meetup should be like, not some wack-job railing against the DLC for a half hour.

[ProfessorPlum]

53. That's how most meetups are, brainwave.

Like I said, at least you made an informed choice based on the candidates positions, etc.

[SGrande]

58. yes I did, i chose dean and then a wacko drove me from him

and Ill never do anything for Dean ever again, until Carolyn Maxon is gone from the AZ Dean campaign ...period.

[ProfessorPlum]

62. Your commitment to good government

and your unwavering dedication to working for the betterment of mankind are obvious and a shining example to us all. NOT!

edit to add the NOT! because some people are irony deficient.

[SGrande]

65. i try

I really do

[ProfessorPlum]

19. There wasn't a Dean meetup 3 weeks ago.

I think you just outed yourself in a lie.

[SGrande]

24. read above post

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. Oh, you were serious?

Kerry is my third pick behind Dean and Kucinich. I'm not anti-Kerry. I'm anti-Kerry's-position-on-some-important-votes-in-the-last-two-years. If he's the nominee he'll have my vote.

I'm tired of the spin on the IWR, PA and mini-Bush tax cuts(if $350B is mini). These are legitimate gripes and effect my support. If you're not effected by them, fine. Btw, much of the Dean/Kerry bashing is done in the spirit of fun (with the notable exception of a bile-ridden few on each side).

I'm sorry you think I'm "nieve" <sic>. If looking critically at policies of war and peace, tax policies that suck the middle/lower classes dry while enriching the top 1% of Americans, and issues that negatively effect civil liberties is naive, then I am indeed, naive.

[SGrande]

15. I don't think your nieve

I notice your humor in your posts, I was thinking more along the lines of the people i ignored, and since Im talking with you, you've always been hard fisted, but never over the top

:)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. Golly. Thanks!

It might surprise you to know that I consider blm a "DU friend" even though we could not be more diametrically opposed on whom we support. We'll both support the eventual nominee after the primaries. The best part of the Dean/Kerry fights is the sharpening of one's understanding of how one justifies the reasons for support/non-support. DU at its best.

Wait...I've gotta take my pill...

Peace, SGrande :-)

[SGrande]

25. omg, lol!

hahaha

seriously, good form!

[blm]

8. The Nixon brigade put the idea out in the newsrooms that Kerry

was just a showboat, and a fake. It became an established "fact" in newsrooms, along with Cheney's charge in the 80s that Kerry was a "conpiracy theory nut" ....but, Kerry's endured and succeeded throughout those 30 years hasn't he? Not many have faced that level of onslaught for so long.

[SGrande]

11. he's still FACING it though!

by crazies who are ready to throw away a lifetime of liberalism over one vote, that the Senator made because he really BELIEVED the president and the director of the CIA when they told him that the Iraq Nuclear threat was a clear and present danger...

gawd, as William Pitt puts it "Its the privilage of the activist to judge John Kerry's war vote when they can never know how hard it was"

[ProfessorPlum]

16. Are you implying that former members of Nixon's administration,

like Rumsfeld and Cheney, might spread smears about Kerry? I'm shocked, shocked!

edit spelling

[blm]

31. No...the point is, the smears never stopped.

Who do you think is the most investigated Democrat, right alongside Clinton? Hell, Kerry was being investigated by the CIA long before Clinton ever ran for office.

[ProfessorPlum]

39. Those guys suck and they abuse power, there's no doubt about it

.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

45. lol

here are your winnings, sir

[DrFunkenstein]

27. They Did The Same To Gore

The Gore-ing of John Kerry

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/05/07/kerry/

(Accept waiting through the 15 second day pass ad with your sound off. Or open a second window.)

Here is another site that is dedicated to refuting slanders directed at Kerry (some of which the article above continues):

http://www.eriposte.com/media/bias/media_bias_kerry.htm

It needs to be updated, but then again, so do the slanders.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

48. And they'll do the same to the eventual Dem nominee.

SOP.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

30. it's ok to anti-somebody if it means you are pro-somebody

it's ok to anti-somebody if it means you are pro-somebody. But when you find people attacking without also having a candidate to promote, it looks a little suspicious.

[SGrande]

36. exactly

[ThorsteinVeblen]

32. Nixon is dead

I know because I pissed on his grave last week.

[blm]

69. heheh...good one.

.

[SGrande]

72. what did the ignored person say?

other than spewing hatred most likly?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

75. something about body fluids no doubt

[ThorsteinVeblen]

78. I am truly sorry if I offended you Nixon lovers out there

but I couldn't think of a better way to pay my "respects" to Dick.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

79. The ignored person answered me! Was I right about the post?

The ignored person answered me! Was I right about the post? They usually involve body fluids or penises in some way.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

80. Yes you were absolutely right

Congratulations. You are one smart cookie. And a real class act.

[CWebster]

77. Don't think they're much worried about him now

He is well-domesticated....

How do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Iraq? How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

81. How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a lie?

How do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Iraq?
How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a lie?

Yeah, how is Bush gonna answer that when Kerry asks him that in the debate? That will be a powerful moment.