Hardball should be called the dean show tonight

[Egnever]

almost the entire last half of the program they have been fawning overhim. Showing iowans reactions to all the candidates at the town hall meeting yesterday. But even when they are talking about others they keep comparing them to dean.

The only one getting more free press right now than dean right now is arnold.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

1. Dean has earned this press coverage, Arnie HASN'T!

:dem:

[blm]

2. Funny...they're trashing Kerry

and Dean was all powerful at the debate last night. HUH???

Even the Dean supporters here said that Dean was "off" last night and that Kerry did well. Gephardt did well, too, yet he was getting trashed. And Bob Graham was HEAVILY trashed, too.

But according to Frank Luntz, Margaret Carlson and Bob Dornan, Dean was the big winner. And they didn't even bring up Sharpton and Kucinich and Braun.

[dsc]

3. I didn't see the show

so I can't comment on what they said and why they said it. But I think Dean, Kerry and Kucinich did well. I was very happy to see a mellower Kucinich.

[liberalmuse]

4. I'm really leery

whenever the mainstream press starts fawning over a Democrat. It just doesn't happen in this day and age. I wonder if Rove gave the networks a call and asked them to spotlight Dean? After reading that line in 'Newsweek' about Rove wanting Bush to run against Dean, it kind of fits. Rove doesn't want his AWOL boy running against a decorated veteran.

[tsipple]

12. Carter Wanted to Run Against Reagan...

...and we all know how that turned out. Dean seems to be a very middle-of-the-road Democrat (fiscal conservative, libertarian-esque on many social issues), he's communicating well, and he's getting Democrats energized. All that can only help in November, 2004.

[CWebster]

29. It isn't so much that he is a Democrat

that he gets any attention. It IS because he is a phenomenon among Democrats because of his ability to rally the base and raise money. And he does it with strong, straight confrontational talk that rejects centrist advice to appease the Right's successful pr campaign on issues like security.

[blm]

35. The media focused on him for

attacking the other Democrats. The corporate media helped create the attention and the resulting "phenomenon" status. Congratulations.

[CWebster]

37. He was unavoidable

he is fucking news.

You should be glad that we have a candidate who can break throgh the static.

[blm]

40. THEY made him news

because they love it when Democrats are attacked, whether it be from Nader or Dean.

He was NOT the antiwar candidate, but, they said he was. He was NOT a liberal, but, they SAID he was. The liberal antiwar $$$$ flowed to the guy who was packaged as the liberal antiwar candidate.

[CWebster]

43. Speaking

of repeating spin.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

5. Dean was in no way the winner last night.

Nor was Kerry.

I think Geppy, Braun, Sharpton and DK were the winners.

The only reason Dean could be considered the winner was because he had thousands outside the building. Come to think of it, maybe he was the winner.

edit: sp

[ThorsteinVeblen]

7. Where are the thousands of Kerry supporters?

[sugarcookie]

8. I believe they showed several clips from each

candidate from various events. I think the one (that they showed) of Dean was from MTP(?).

[blm]

10. That wasn't it, at all.

But, Gep, Graham and Kerry all got trashed, BIGTIME. The others were ignored completely.

Dean was praised to the ceiling. Hey, I didn't think anything was wrong with his performance last night, but, this kind of praise was off the charts.

And Luntz was grinning the whole time.

[Kanola]

14. I distrust REPUGs praising anyone

I think they think Dean is far left and want him as the nomination.

[w13rd0]

20. That just proves they are stupid...

...or that they don't pay attention. No, the reason is the campaign, the method of fundraising, that's the why of the buzz. Rove might say he wants to run against Dean, but he also said he'd "take" California and New York, remember. These jackasses are the kings of arrogance. Saying they "want Dean" is them saying that their positions are unassailable, and we all know that to be bullshit.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

38. If I'm not mistaken,

it was likely Iowa Democratic Caucus voters who were trashing the candidates. Look, I think Frank Luntz is a piece of conservative garbage but the bad reviews (dial-an-opinion) were from likely Dem voters picked at random.

Sometimes the truth hurts. Kerry is not connecting with people. In fairness, they hardly mentioned the extremely positive "ratings" that he was receiving from the male portion of the test group and seemed too intent on talking about his high negatives with females.

Instead of bitching about it, Kerry and his campaign should look at this as an opportunity to change the campaigns tone. There's plenty of time left to turn opinions around.

[blm]

41. Yeah, sure...and those same people said

they respected Bush and Dems shouldn't go after him. But, supposedly, Dean supporters prefer him because they perceive him as going after Bush the most. So...any disconnect there, RIF?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

46. I think it had to do with what clips they were shown.

I guess a case could be made that whatever clip was presented was used to elicit the desired response. That's a fair critique.

Note: They used the MTP clip for Dean, generally considered his worst performance. What do you make of that?

On edit: I'd appreciate your input here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=19813

[blm]

56. They watched the whole debate.

If you don't see a disconnect in the messages, well, that's you.

If the Dean supporters are feeling so confident this was NOT a skewed report by Luntz, then why aren't they crowing about such a stellar response from Iowa undecided voters as they normally would?

[caledesi]

16. Thousands outside the building....Dish!

Tell me more.

[proud patriot]

26. Here they are

http://blog.deanforamerica.com/
Scroll down a bit :hi:

[Kahuna]

6. Did you see how giddy Luntz was over the possibility of

Dean winning the nomination? Still think Dean isn't their opponent of choice? :eyes:

[ThorsteinVeblen]

9. Clark should shit or get off the pot.

He should declare once and for all whether or not he is a Democrat or Republican and declare his candidacy.

[Kahuna]

21. Huh? I thought you were supporting either..

Kucinich or Dean.

[Kanola]

27. I agree, and before Labor Day

We already have a great selection of Dem candidates who have been working hard to get the election.

[blm]

11. I wanted to smack that smirk right off his face.

.

[Mel]

13. something stinks

I like all of the them except Lieberman and I tell you when Tweety and Co. like someone (a democrat) it smells to me I don't trust the corporatist media at all!

I think the likes of Rove and Co. where more afraid of Edwards and I tell you why they started attacking him long ago and they think the public is shallow and would pick him over their Boy *Bush because he's better looking and can speak better course all of them can. Also, Edwards would be able to pull some of the south vote. I do think he'd be a good VP pick for whoever gets the nomination.

The one I like best DK isn't getting much media because the corporatists don't like his ideas at all, wouldn't be good for their crony capitalism and like it or not they control the cards with the media. Same goes for the Al Sharpton, he goes to much against the grain of crony capitalism also.
I don't think we are going to see the press be easy on those two course it's a good thing that those two are good at handling theirselves with the media. The DK Wolfie interview went pretty good the Wolf didn't jam DK although it seemed to me he tried awful hard. btw (I only read the transcript) I will read the transcript to this later on I just know that from watching past Tweety that I don't trust the guy at all.

[blm]

15. Worse...it was Mike Barnicle

who is truly a GOP shill who LOVES Bush.

[molly]

33. I agree with you

they don't want ANY strong DEM running against them. They certainly didn't fawn all over Clinton. :crazy:

[blm]

17. Now on Fox...Rich Galen just said Dean

is the most serious candidate for the Dems that was on that stage.

NOT Graham, Gephardt, Kerry, Kucinich, Braun or Sharpton.

[LuminousX]

52. Fox News and Ann Richards are one in the same I guess

nt

[blm]

57. She said

that Dean was the only serious candidate on stage? Shame on her if she agreed with Galen.

Is Richards infallible?

Is Richards politically and intellectually more credible than Gary Hart?

You may prefer what Richards says, but, I have the feeling that when Hart is out speaking about the 2004 campaign his view will be found to be more valuable and informative to the American people.

[poskonig]

18. We can't win.

If Dean gets press, he is part of the establishment. If Dean doesn't get press, it is proof he cannot win. If Republicans say Dean is a serious candidate, they want him because he is easy to beat. If Republicans ignore him, it is because Dean is not a serious candidate.

Sheesh!

This corny astrology on how the media works is no substitute for concrete thinking. Pros and Cons for a Dean candidacy exist and should be discussed in a clear and reasonable manner.

[killbotfactory]

19. He's also way too liberal...

Oh wait, he's way too conservative... All his supporters are fools for thinking he was liberal!

He also can't raise money...

Oh wait, he's raised a ton of money, but he's peaked too soon!

...

Another day, another round of talking points.

[Kahuna]

22. Oh no! The Deanies will insist bushco is using..

reverse psychology, I tell ya! They just want us to think they want Dean to win. :wtf: I don't know how they can honestly say that if they watched Luntz tonight. But, I'm sure they will manage to convince themselves. :silly:

[LuminousX]

53. Should we back away from the one we support

just because Bushco wants to run against him?

Never allow your opposition to influence your decisions. Win or Lose on your own choices, not the choices you think the opposition doesn't want you to make.

[blm]

60. No...but, don't tell us

that we're just making this stuff up, when it's plain as day.

Not specifically you, but those who do.

[dajabr]

23. Fear tactics...

Sad to see them being used here by those on our side, but that's where some have stooped...Fear tactics.

[blm]

58. Let's see...who was crying that the

"DLC is going to pick our candidate."

"Fatcat DNC is going to tell us who the nominee is."

Fear tactics?

[caledesi]

25. Well said Pos.

[poskonig]

24. The show looked informative to me.

The focus grouping data was objective. Perhaps other candidates could learn a thing or two.

[blm]

28. Here's why there's something fishy about it.

Supposedly, Dean supporters are with him because they perceive him as being the most vocal critic of Bush. Yet, in this grooup, they fawn all over Dean, while at the same time Luntz said they don't want a candidate who bashes Bush. HUH?

You don't see a disconnect in that?

[Egnever]

30. thats because luntz was spining

None of those clips actually had the candidate going on for any real length of time on bush but whenever they did mention a bush policy the reaction was poor.

Instead of calling it for a bad reaction to bush policies he interpreted it as bad reaction to them bashing bush.

Least thats the way I saw it. But then Im no Frank luntz

[blm]

31. It was said in the beginning

that the people respected Bush. Every clip about Kerry was vicious in complete contrast to previous focus groups that chose Kerry over most others.

Each comment about Kerry was meant to cast him exactly as Gore was cast in 2000. That he was just saying anything to get elected. Exactly the RNC plan.

[poskonig]

48. Actually, I thought they presented nothing new.

Dean comes off more blunt than the other candidates, Kerry comes off oscillating, Gephardt comes off phony, and Graham comes off completely insane.

[CWebster]

32. No

Dean's campaign is exciting and inclusive. It has moved beyond Dean the man, to the possibility of a better future.

It is really that simple.

[blm]

34. And Frank Luntz is right there on your side.

How wonderful for you, CWebster. You deserve to have such a man in your corner.

[CWebster]

36. What has that got to do with the way things are?

Dean is more popular, he is raising more money, he does galvanize greater interest, he does get bigger turnouts, he does stoke people's interest, he does offer hope.

[poskonig]

49. Luntz predicted a slim Democratic victory in the Senate last year.

The man isn't God, but that doesn't mean argumentum ad hominem flies either. Luntz hypothesizes we are seeing the "throw them all out" phenomenon we saw in 1992 and 1994, and this explains California, Dean, and the anti-incumbent atmosphere right now.

[molly]

39. Dean supporters are organized, super-aggressive and

in your face 24-7. Instead of a soft sell, it's a hard sell - like the difference between a flashing neon sign at a cheap motel and a subtle distinquished sign at a Four Seasons.

First thing every morning, you can count a a multitude of Dean posts.

[CWebster]

42. And the same negative, resentful Kerry crybabies

....that wasn't an upper-class elitist, blue-blooded, pinky-lifting, regatta rowing, classist smear by way of comparison you just posted, was it?

[molly]

44. Did it get to ya? Every day - all day - all night - Dean

supporters twist the truth to suit their candidate. It's a cheap trick and it's ugly.

[blm]

59. Twist and shout.

They twist the truth then shout it loud.

[blm]

45. Organized just like the right, eh?

Maybe because they WERE organized by the right.

Trippi helped give Whitewater legs.

[molly]

47. REALLY? What was Trippi's function in Whitewater?

[poskonig]

50. Here's what happened.

The New Whore Times did an erroneous hit piece on Clinton concerning Whitewater, and the Brown campaign (which Trippi worked for) cited it.

Therefore, even though Clinton used the same underhanded tactics (smeared Tsongas as a corporate thug while taking money from the same interests), Trippi is somehow a Republican in disguise out to destroy the Democratic Party *and* John Kerry for the good of a secret conspiracy and their media allies.

[blm]

51. Jerry Brown's campaign.

The Whitewater story had no legs till Brown threw it at Clinton during a live debate.

[LuminousX]

54. Because Brown was SOOO influential

and it had nothing to do with the millions Scaife threw at the issue.

[blm]

55. Wasn't comparing, LX

I just said that Jerry Brown gave the story legs when he threw it out then. Why deny it?

[blm]

61. bump

for sfecap

[blm]

62. repeat

.