Kucinich joins call to study reparations

[redqueen]

Dennis mentioned joining John Conyers' call to study reparations for those whose African American ancestors suffered enslavement in his announcement speech.

Yahoo has just http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031023/ap_on_re_us/slave_reparations_3">reported that "Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich said that if elected president he would order a study of reparations for descendants of slaves."

I know people (I live in Texas) who have had some fairly violent kneejerk reactions from these statements.

I'd like to get a feel for how the people on this board think this will affect Dennis's campaign, or their personal reaction, or whatever.

As for me, I personally feel it's only right to try to account for whatever unfair profits were made and make up for the fact that people were taken advantage of. It's clear to me that not having originally received their fair share of that wealth has adversely affected generations of black families, so I have no problem at all with this, and in fact think it's high time we faced this issue head-on.

What do you think?

[Occulus]

1. I think it's the right thing to

try to do, but I don't think the actual promise of forty acres and a mule will be deliverable.

It is, however, the correct gesture.

[redqueen]

4. Well I don't think that's the measure anymore.

That was already offered, then reneged on.

This is more of a fiscal study, to evaluate what the profits were, and how much would have been payable to workers at the time, etc.

The gesture thing is the most critical part, to me. To blow it off without even attempting to account for how much wealth was actually generated for this country / these companies, due to slave labor, to me seems like a continuing slap in the face.

[Sandstorm]

5. What about the Chinese and Native Americans

Chinese slave labor was used in building transcontinental railways, which led to the development of the west. Does the country owe Chinese Americans something too? No to mention Native Americans...

[redqueen]

9. Probably, yes...

Either the country or the company that used their labor. We can't even begin to account for what we would owe the Native Americans. One thing we could do is try to implement a more responsible manager to handle the their land-use funds. This travesty has been ignored for decades, and with little attention. (?)

But you are aware that we paid reparations to Japanese after their internment, aren't you?

We set a precedent with that, and it will have to be taken into consideration when dealing with any other issues. To grant one sector a form of repayment while ignoring others who were similarly, or even more abused, is unfair.

[Loonman]

2. While he's at it

He can give some land back to American Indians.

[redqueen]

6. Yes he mentioned their treatment as well...

in his announcement speech, immediately before he mentioned that he had joined Conyers in his call for this study:

"In the book of Isaiah, we are urged to be repairers of the breach. Our work for peace will be strengthened when we repair the breach within our own society. Today is an appropriate day to remind ourselves of the necessity of healing the grief with Native Americans, who were dispossessed when exploration turned to exploitation, and when the cause of the American Natives were excluded in the cause of all Americans."

[Sandstorm]

3. I think it's absolutely ridiculous

I'm so tired of this victimization crap. Yes, what some of our ancestors did to some of their ancestors was horrible, and has had a lasting negative effect, but how is giving people whose ancestors were taken advantage of a few thousand dollars going to help?

[redqueen]

7. It might not seem like much,

but if it was your family who was originally taken advantage of, the gesture might be more meaningful than the dollar amount might seem.

I think this is what he's talking about when he refers to 'healing the breach'.

[Thinman12]

41. Reparations for the Irish then?

Economically held back for roughly 100 years. Job postings in windows and the papers with the statements "No Irish Need Apply".

http://www.pbs.org/pioneerliving/segments/irish.htm


Can somebody name the one race/gender/nationality that has never been oppressed in any way? I have ancesters that are Prussians. Where exactly is Prussia on the map today? Can I sue for a lack of a homeland. Should I demand the right of return?

edited <spelling>

[redqueen]

53. *sigh*

Dennis has joined a call to study reparations. If you're hoping that the Irisn are included in this study, perhaps you should start calling someone in congress.

[brainshrub]

8. I thought Kucinich wanted to be president!?

I don't care what you think about Kucinich or the issue of reparations: The moment he publicly supported a study into this, his chances of winning against B*$h became nill.

Bad move Dennis. Very bad move.

White Americans, as a group, are so against the reparations idea that even studying the merits of the issue is political suicide.

[redqueen]

10. I'm surprised you feel that way.

Why are white Americans, in your opinion (because I don't think you really know for a fact that this is the case), so against this idea? Does it not fit with the idea of fairness that America is supposed to strive for?

If we give up before something has even started, then to me, we cease to live up to the ideals this country was founded on. This kind of attitude, IMO, makes those 'self evident' truths nothing but cheap lies.

[Wickerman]

11. My opinion doesn't matter much

being a white guy, but it would seem the best way to benefit people is one I heard several years ago in which the money not be paid to individuals, (how can you find descendants of particular atrocities, etc?) but to set up programs which benefit offended classes of people. Submit grants props for those programs, the most effective are chosen and funded. Could conceivably get the best bang for the buck, too.

[redqueen]

15. Feh! Your opinion means a lot!

:)

[forgethell]

13. No, it doesn't fit in with any fairness

at all. No one alive today was a slave, in America. No on alive today owned slaves, in America. At some point there has to be a "statute of limitations". Now that point may not yet have passed in, say Saudi Arabia (slavery legal until the 1960s), or Africa, itself. But it has here. The whole concept is race-baiting of a type most Repugs would writhe in shame to do.

[redqueen]

16. You're right about the 'no one alive today' thing...

but have you considered that the wealth that is passed down from family to family has to start somewhere? The fact that a group of people was denied any chance at leaving a legacy of wealth for their decendants is a big deal.

And it's not that hard to trace lineage, either. This would be key to receiving reparations, I'm sure, to ensure fairness.

I don't think this is race-baiting at all. I think this is a genuine attempt to try to make our country live up to the standards it sets.

[forgethell]

19. So they would have been rich

if they had stayed in Africa. I'm not condoning slavery, but this your great-granddaddy cheated my great-granddaddy business falls way into the "so what" range for me. I'm not rich either, and would really resent paying people money based solely on the color of thier skin. Hey, One of my ancestors was in indentured servant in colonial times. does that entitle me to reparations? where do I go to get them. Muslims have enslaved European Christians in Africa and the Mid-East up through a good portion of the 20th century. Do their relatives get reparations?

What about the slaves currently in Africa? Who is going to pay their reparations?

So the debate would be about who pays, and who gets. How much black blood is necessary to get a settlement? One-drop rule? that might let a few blue-eyed blonds in. Dark skin? How dark? should the cut-off be chocolate or coffee or honey??

Great chance to just stir up racial animosity. We could be like Palestine and Israel in a just few years.

this is a bad idea whose time will not come.

[redqueen]

21. I don't think that's a fair reaction.

No one is saying they would have been rich, but certainly they would have been better off, and might have had more of a chance to join the middle class, sooner.

This isn't about the color of someone's skin. I don't know why that's part of the discussion. It's about who your ancestors were, and if they were enslaved, and how much they might have earned.

If your ancestors were taken advantage of, then I'd suggest you look up by whom, and start from there. As far as muslims and people in other countries, isn't that really up to the country they live in to pursue?

Why are these responses so reactionary? Have you really not thought the issue through? These sure seem like kneejerk responses to me.

Who pays? The companies who profited, of course!
Blood? If you're a decendant, you share with other decendants.
Color of eyes or skin? Are you serious? :eyes:

This only stirs up animosity among a certain type of person.

[forgethell]

25. Do you follow the news??

Better off in Africa, today?? Middle-class?? OK, if you say so.

And yes, it does seem to be about the color of one's skin. The reparations are for "African Americans". Now, I suppose we can all claim to be African-Americans in the sense that our original ancestors are said to have come from there, but, I don't think that's what's meant.

Besides, companies weren't the main profiteers. That would be the individual slave-owners, and the slave-traders. But their descendants don't have deep pockets, now do they?

It is really unjust and unfair to apply the standards of our times to previous times. It is even more unfair to ask individuals who were not involved in a wrong to pay for it.

And what kind of person does injustice and unfairness stir up animosity in?

[redqueen]

26. I do

But I don't see how your comment about being 'better off in Africa' is germane to this thread at all... And yes, some families decended from slaves might have entered the middle class sooner, had they been paid instead of used.

The reparations are for decendants of slaves. If they're mixed, they're mixed.

And if you think they're going to go back and trace the lineage of decendants of individual slave owners or slave traders, then I'll posit that it's in fact you who has failed to keep up with the news. This is not a new idea. Do some reading, and you'll find there are several large corporations still around today that profited from slavery.

And, IMHO, this idea stirs up animosity in those who do not carefully consider what's being said, instead (for some reason :eyes: ) choosing to react with any and all kinds of rhetorical demoagoguing. I'll leave picking a label up to you. :)

edited for clarity

[forgethell]

27. I said individuals

As for corporations, mainly I thinnk you mean insurance companies. did they own slaves, or just insure them. It was legal, at the time. And that rolly eyeball thingie works both ways. For whatever reason, there are certain people who are not content to move on with their lives, but must forever after maliciously pursue others.

Anyway, this discussion is meaningless. That position will never win a national election. If Dennis doesn't back off on this, you might as well vote Green, Repuke, or stay home, because he will not win.

[redqueen]

28. Why so hostile?

I'm not doing your research for you. There are several major corporations involved in the studies (plural) that have been done to investigate the profits from slavery. I don't consider studying this issue to be 'maliciously pursuing others'. I see it as an attempt to put to bed an issue which has been festering for decades.

I'm not asking if it will win, I just wanted to start a dialoge on it. I'm sorry to see it went exactly as I predicted it would (very sad that my expectation was based on my experience in Texas, which is not exactly the kind of 'model' I want for my country).

Your angry admonition that I vote green or repuke is ugly and hurtful. But no matter. I will still vote for DK in the primary and whomever is the nominee in November.

[forgethell]

29. Thank you.

As you say, I can do my own research, and have, and have reached the conclusion that this is a bad idea. I'm not hostile, just depressed that the African-American community cannot seem to find happiness in America, and think money from whoever is the answer. I mean Afican-Americans, as a community, have plenty of problems, no joke. But, unless they solve them themselves, nobody else, however willing, can do it for them.

Now, if this were a question of, say, paying for additional infrastructure in inner-city areas, there might be something to it. Also, what do you mean. exactly, by "profits from slavery"? Engaging in legal, if immoral, conduct, should not be cause for punishment of one's descendants a century and a half later.

As for my "admonition' to vote Green, repuke, etc., that was not advice, that was a simple prediction that this political position is a sure loser in November, 2004. I also, will vote for the Democrat, but there are a lot of people who otherwise would, that will not is this is made an issue. that's my tactical assessment. Certainly, you are free to disagree. but that doesn't make the people that disagree with you racists, that doesn't make them idiots, that doesn't make them uneducated, that doesn't make them uncaring,that doesn't make them wrong.

[redqueen]

30. Not disagreeing with your assessment of the situation at large.

But the fact is he's agreed to a study, not drafted legislation demanding cash payments.

As for what the study would come up with as a resolution, who's to say what could be the outcome? I do think it's sad that people today can look back a few generations and see how they've been screwed over by huge and profitable companies. And that faced with that knowledge, it's so easy for people who consider themselves to be on the 'other side' can so easily dismiss the feelings of those people. I'm caucasian, but I consider race to be illusory and don't put any stock in it whatsoever.

Legally speaking, does the legality of slavery at the time set this situation apart from the internment of Japanese, German, and other Americans during WWII? I know at least the Japanese were given cash reparations. Perhaps that decision was not such a good one, considering that now a precedent has been set.

Also, punishing a corporation does not equate to punishing a decendant. A corporation is not a person.

I agree with you that many will decide not to support Dennis based on this issue. I've seen it start already. I think it's sad, and I don't say that makes them racists or idiots, but I think it does make them reactionary and I do think they're wrong. But that's just my opinion. :)

[forgethell]

48. Politically,

this will come back to haunt him. the Democratic paty already gets about 90% of the black vote. so this will add nothing from them. But it will turn away whites, and possibly Asians and Hispanics who see that they will be required to pay. Because the corporations will not have the money to pay what is being discussed :http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9423-2003Oct23.

html:crazy:

Also, I think this is wrong for a bigger reason. You mentioned in an earlier post that maybe more blacks would have been middle-class if they had had reparations. Middle-class is not a question of money. It is a question of attitude. Look at most of the poor people who win a lottery, or like rodney king, win a big judgement. within a few years, they are screwing up their lives again, they've lost the money, and they may be back in jail. Or look at a number of movie or rap, or even country stars. They have money by the truck load and msierable perosnal lives. No matter how poor I get, I am unlikely to wind up in jail because I don't indulge in the behaviors that get you there. that's not to say that I haven't wanted to take a swing at somebody, or even shoot them. I have. I restrained the impulse. I save my money instead of spending it for things that will be gone within a week. I don't use credit to any great extent. I'm faithful to my wife. All these things keep me out of trouble, and on an upward spiral. they will work for anyone else. I'm NOT, by the way, saying this is the MORAL way to live life, only that it is the SMART way to do so. But maybe it isn't as much fun as some others.

Reparations? Give black children, and white children, too, schools that teach them something. Not the dysfuntional day-care centers they have today.

On eddit: I did not complete my thought. I feel that reparations will not HELP African-Americans more than temporarily. I beleive that it will harm many of them, because many people are unable to handle unearned windfalls. (Please, this is not about what granddaddy may have earned, but what the individual recipient may have earned). I bleieve it to be unfair and unjust to current Americans. And I believe it will worsen racial relations in the USA today.

[redqueen]

52. The link you provided was too old... didn't come up.

But after reading your second paragraph, I've decided I no longer wish to continue discussing the matter with you anyway.

Good day, sir.

[ErasureAcer]

12. 100 million americans still refuse to vote...

I still think Dennis' platform will reach out to the lot of people who will actually have something to vote for who usually don't vote...healthcare for all, the study of reparations, and a plan for free-quality education k through college, the beginning of the end of the stupid war on drugs and easing of our drug laws, etc...

And it is quite clear that only Dennis Kucinich can restore the divisive liberal/libertarian rift. Green Party and Natural Law party officials from Nader/Laduke and John Hagelin have all come out and supported Dennis and his vision saying he is the best contender for the job.

Dennis Kucinich isn't trying to appeal to the same 100 million people who voted in 2000. He's appealing to some of them and a lot of people who are fed up with the system and those who truly have given up with the system.

Dennis can win in 2004 and will.

[Mairead]

14. The Boston Globe had an article a few years back

about the huge transfer of wealth from the WW2 generation to their kids, and how vanishingly few Black folk were participating in that because of racism and the legacy of racism and slavery. It was a very compelling article.

For my part, I think money reparations would be simultaneously too facile, too divisive, and let White people off the hook too easily. The importation of newly-enslaved African people ended in 1808, which means that the descendents of enslaved Africans have been here much longer than many (most?) White people. That's 200 years at least, and suffering all the while. So I think any solution has to be a long-term reparation. Extra voting power is something that might be very useful--Reps elected at-large in a state for whom only people who identify as Black and who can prove Black ancestry can vote. Likewise for aboriginal people. Enough political clout to really make a difference for a change.

Comments?

[redqueen]

17. I wish I'd seen that article!

That's exactly what I'm referring to regarding the legacy of wealth. A lot of peoples' educations are funded in part by having a house to use as collateral for a college loan. When you consider than until the 50's (I think -?) that banks would refuse to lend money to people to buy houses based on the race of people ... it just all hits home how unfairly this country has dealt with issues of color.

Yes, they've changed these laws (for the most part), but that doesn't make up for the fact that people were wronged to begin with, and when you take the 'wealth legacy' issue into consideration, it just all calls for a real discussion of these kinds of ideas.

I wonder what the situation is in Australia wrt to the Aboriginees there.

Either way, IMO saying he would join Coners in a call to at least address this issue seriously is a huge step forward in making race relations better for this country.

[forgethell]

20. I thought people

on this board were fond of democracy? Maybe I was mistaken.

[Thinman12]

43. Fourth Admendment?

Equal protection? Special elections that only African-Americans and aboriginal people can vote in. Oh yea, thats a winner of an idea, and not racist at all.

[Mairead]

61. There've been plenty elections well within the lifetime of many DUers

that only White people could vote in. What should be done about that? A little smirk and a handwaved 'never mind', maybe?

[jiacinto]

18. His campaign is definitely over now

I say this from a political point of view. There is no way that he can get the nomination now. By mentioning the word "reparations" he has struck a racial nerve that will doom his candidacy.

[forgethell]

22. I agree, which is just one more reason

to oppose this kind of thing. The white public will never vote for it, and pushing it is just going to push many whites out of the Democratic Party into voting for Repukes. and the supreme court, as currently constituted would never find it constitutional

If we were already in power, with a veto-proof majority in the Senate, it might, just might mindyou, have a chance. But for now, it doesn't

[redqueen]

23. Don't these kinds of comments...

just speak VOLUMES about white people?
:(

[Tinoire]

38. Not all White people

Just some White people and Pseudo-Whites.

On edit: There are many Whites who believe in some sort of reparations. Check out Marianne Williamson on the subject and her huge following. There are people in this world who believe in righting wrongs.

[JohnKleeb]

39. definely not at all

I dont mind a study in to this. :hi: I am glad my ancestors were in the old country then and didnt take part in that shameful shit.

[redqueen]

54. Yes I'm sorry to any white people ...

who may have been truly offended for good reason by my flippant remark. I should have chosen my words more carefully.

It's just that after seeing the kneejerk-type of responses I was getting, I kept flashing back to the animations from Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine".

*sigh*

(edited to correct film title)

[gottaB]

62. You didn't offend me.

Of course, Tinoire was correct, not all white people think like that. I for one support doing something about reparations. I see it as doing what's in my own best interests as a citizen and a patriot.

But if you were to generalize about the way white people think about race and politics, you probably wouldn't point to my beliefs as defining the norm.

So anyway I sure didn't take offense.

Kudos to Kucinich once again for fighting the good fight.

[Thinman12]

44. When do you stop?

The problem with this is when do you stop. How about dicrimination against:

1. Women
2. Catholics
3. Irish
4. Italians
5. Germans
6. Jews
7. ...

Pick a group, any group and they have been discriminated against at some point in time. Who owes them reperations? Why are they are going to get paid? Lets just determine every offense of everyone in the World and then figure how who is going to pay.

[Mairead]

47. There are some differences

Black folk were sought out and enslaved against their will. That's not unimportant, any more than the fact that Europeans committed genocide--yes, genocide--against the aboriginal people in what is now the US and (to a smaller extent) Canada is unimportant. Women, Catholics, the Irish, etc. were not sought out and enslaved, nor was genocide committed against them. That's the difference.

Now, your privilege might prevent you from seeing that, but, rest assured, it is there to be seen.

[no name no slogan]

49. The whites it "pushes out"

are probably the same "moderates" who voted for Bush in 1988, 1992 AND 2000. The Democrats have not won a presidential election with the majority of the white male vote since 1964. Before that, it was 1948.

Face it: it's highly doubtful we'll EVER win another election with the majority of the white male vote. But, seeing as whites are becoming a smaller percentage of the overall population of this country, it's not really something we should get overly alarmed about.

Where the Democrats have been strongest since WWII has been with racial minorities and the working class-- two VERY large parts of the "New Deal" coalition put together under FDR and Truman (Remember, it was Truman who integrated the armed forces in the 1940s).

Why is this party so damn worried about appealing to the white racist vote anyway? Do we REALLY want those bigots in our party? I thought those guys all turned Repub in the 1960s after the Civil Rights and Voting Rights acts?

:WTF:

[forgethell]

50. Racial minorities

are still, as of now, racial minorities. The "working class" is also largely composed of white males. Since WW2, we haven't done all that well in presidential elections. Even good ole Bill Clinton had to run to the right to get elected. The numbers say we can't afford to gratuitously throw away votes for tertiary issues, when there are more urgent issues to be addressed. Just my opnion. Oh, and disagreeing with reparations does not qualify one as a racist.

[redqueen]

55. Here's one of my biggest pet peeves!

The fact that whites in the working class choose to be demagogued into siding with the 'white' side of an argument, rather than seeing the bigger picture -- that the GOP which stirs and caters to allaying their fears -- is screwing them just as much as they're screwing the minorities in the working class.

The simple fact that it's so easy to divide people this way just drives me nuts!

You just mention a willingness to STUDY reparations, and the reactionary response is to flock to someone who will keep helping the establishment screw you AND minorities.

Amazing!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

24. It's political suicide

all other considerations aside. Right or wrong, no one is going to get elected President in 2004 with this in their platform.

[Mairead]

31. Y'know, Feanor, Dennis taking this position is one of the reasons

I feel confident he'll never sell us out. He doesn't seem to ever adopt positions based on polls or focus groups or political calculus. He just decides that, yes/no this is the right/wrong thing to do for these reasons 12345, and that's it. He can articulate why he feels as he does, and he relies on others to feel the same way. He relies on his connections to people. And everyone--his supporters, the political maklers, and even his opponents--agrees that it's a powerful advantage for him because people 'get it' that he doesn't talk out of both sides of his mouth. As that one GOP state Senator put it, when Dennis was standing for Congress the first time, 'philosophically he's awful, okay? But I trust him.'

For the same reason, everyone can feel confident that he'll never go for any reparations that he can't justify in a solid, credible way. Because he has to be persuaded first.

[Desertrose]

32. at this point he is merely opting to "look"

at the possiblity...what it would entail...is it even feasible....

I give Dennis credit for following his sense of fairness....

well said ( as usual), Mairead.

Peace
DR

[Thinman12]

45. I give him credit for

pandering. I cannot believe that anyone would think that this would solve anything.

[no name no slogan]

33. S'okay Maired

A lot of the whites who oppose even studying reparations are could be the same ones who opposed them for Holocaust survivors and Japanese-Americans, too.

Seriously, what is the difference? The slave trade was a holocaust against Africans, which they and African "emigrants" are still dealing with to this very day. The imperialist colonization and unrestrained greed by Europeans has brought more tragedy and suffering to the world's indigenous people than any other catastrophe-- and I'm a Euro-American!

What is so "wrong" about STUDYING the reparations issue? Has he actually signed on to any plan that says we'll pay somebody, ANYBODY, and money at this point?

Oh forget it. I guess it should be "with liberty and justice for all but African Americans, Native Americans, Muslim Americans, and anybody else who we can lock up in GitMo. :eyes:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

34. Hey, nobody can fault DK for his integrity or vision.

That is for sure. I didn't mean it as a knock against him. I'm just addressing the political reality of how this could be used against him in the campaign, especially during the general election, were he to make it there. The racist campaign the Repubs would run would be a horrible thing to see. I don't even want to try to picture the attack ads.

[JohnKleeb]

35. Its ok Fean, I know you werent being harsh

[Il_Coniglietto]

36. I scanned an editorial from an issue of TIME that I was given in class

Large file, but interesting op-ed. I may just type it up if it's too big. Let me know.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

37. I like the idea of

'financing the construction of schools, housing, transportation grids, factories, you name it, in the most depressed areas where the descendents of slaves are a majority'

Why would we need to tie that idea to the reparations issue, though?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

58. No, really, why do we need to tie this to reparations?

Can't we just do what's right because it's the right thing to do? Making it about reparations just causes more divisiveness.

[LWolf]

63. Good points...made by several posters in this thread.

I think Dennis said he wanted to study it; did he say anywhere what "reparations" would mean? I don't think he committed to any particular action.

That said, I think you've made the connection here. Bringing projects, $$$, and hope into the depressed areas would go a lot further, IMO, to provide reparations than anything else we could do. And it's already a part of Dennis' platform.

One of the things that attracted me to Dennis Kucinich in the first place is the way he addresses issues. He looks at the cause rather than the symptom.

In this case, the cause is over and done with, at least as far as slavery in this country is concerned. We need to address the effects. And I think your idea is not only right, but in DK's vision as well.

[TheDonkey]

40. He is a brave hero

Wow, just wow.

Reperations is political suicide in this society which is still so violently racist.

But for him to say he'd look into studying it (something I agree with) is something amazing and really shows he is a true progressive. Yes, his chances ate winning are hurt even more but he was already polling at around 1%. Still my respect has just soared for him.

[hippywife]

42. I'd say

this is a long time coming and way overdue. Dennis does stand on the side of justice and equity for all human beings.

I think that reparations of the type mentioned in the scanned article above would be an incredible way to give a hand up to those that are still suffering from the discrimination of the past and the present.

Yes, we did pay reparations to the Japanese and that was a start. We hailed the reparations to the survivors of the holocaust, and even goaded the process along somewhat yet we still stand guilty in the face of history when it comes to our country's own sad legacy with regard to Native and African Americans. That's a bold double standard if ever there was one.

Heal the breach, Dennis. We're with you all the way.

[burr]

46. this is an issue which could tear our already worthless party apart...

I support studing the idea of reparations, discussing who would get the reparations, what the reparations would be used for, and how to impliment them without creating a never-ending firestorm. I agree with those who point out the obvious value slaves and their descendants brought to our country is beyond what whites could ever give in return. The same is true of native Americans who lost their land and natural resources to the white man, and now are exploited by casinos and federal officials. The same is true for the Japanese-Americans who fought and died for our nation in WWII, but were treated like prisoners in return. The same is true for Muslim-Americans, many of whom have helped in the war against terrorism...but are now being treated as enemies of the state.

But where will the reparations end in a nation that is $6 trillian in the hole, and could never repay the countless victims for America's numberless crimes?

True unity is the only way to prevent future rounds of bigotry and racial exploitation. We must again provide unwavering support for affirmative action and the Americans with Disabilities Act. We can help every person who is suffering through cancer or some other health problem by passing Universal Healthcare. And we must stop racial profiling and running government funded ads that spread the lie that minorities are more likely to use drugs than white rich college brats! Such ads make young whites even more bigoted, and these ads make me sick. Just stopping this abuse of our tax dollars would mean a hell of alot more for all of our fellow citizens, than some worthless court settlement or reparation would.

[diamondsoul]

51. My initial reaction was disappointment.

Then I read the statement again. It's a lot like the claim that Kucinich voted to impeach Clinton.(He didn't.) There is a huge difference between studying the issue of reparations and implementing reparations. I don't think actually paying reparations is a wise move at this point. As has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread, it opens the door to so many reparations plans having to be paid out that we'd be financially destroyed in short order.

Even so, studying the issue is not a bad idea. If we go over it now, consider the implications both to society and to Government spending, consider whether there are any benefits to financial compensation for wronged or persecuted groups that outweigh the costs, etc. etc. we'll have done all the hard work should there come a point where we've repeated such oppression and need to repair the damage. To an extent it's already started with Muslim Americans and people of Middle Eastern descent in the US. Some groups of people who were mistreated throughout history may have to suck up the fact that we won't get any compensation for that, but once the matter is studied, debated, discussed and reasoned out, we'll know whether it's a sound means of making up for more recent oppression and mistreatments that might happen.

I tell you it seems sometimes there's a bizarre aversion to academic discussion that deals with subjects we find unappealing. Well there's a lot about this world I find unappealing. That's not going to go away because I refuse to talk about it. In fact, talking about it, considering possible solutions, responses, choices, etc. is the one thing that just MIGHT change things. As long as we refuse to examine situations with open minds, nothing is going to change.

[drfemoe]

56. Your article

which doesn't work from the link you posted, btw .. is about tax fraud. There is the one sentence referring to DK in the entire article. That's hardly a yahoo report on DK...

"WARSAW, Va. - Crystal Foster's father advised her to spend the $500,000 income tax refund she got two years ago. When the government came looking for its money, the Fosters said it was their rightful reparations, since their ancestors were slaves.

Though there is no federal reparations program, Foster had spent the money in eight days, buying a $40,000 Mercedes Benz, paying off her student loans and helping her brother pay for his first year at Virginia Tech.

Foster's father, Robert Lee Foster, prepared her tax forms and was convicted along with his daughter of trying to defraud the government. He maintains he did the right thing.

Black people are not treated as humans, but as things by the U.S. government," he said in an interview at the Northern Neck Regional Jail. "We were used as resources to enrich this country and we get no inheritance from the wealth we brought. " ...

"IRS spokeswoman Michelle Lamishaw said the idea of filing reparations claims may have originated with a 1993 Essence magazine editorial urging blacks to seek refunds of $43,206 per household as a delinquent tax rebate. The magazine said the figure was the modern-day equivalent of 40 acres and a mule, which Congress voted to give former slaves following the Civil War. The deal was vetoed by President Andrew Johnson." ...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031023/ap_on_re_us/slave_reparations_3

[redqueen]

59. Jeebus

All I said was that Yahoo reported it!

My nerves are shot so I'll just dispose of all courtesy and suggest you brush up on your reading & comprehension skills.

Thanks for re-posting the link.

:eyes:

[Egnever]

57. I think Denis goes further into the unelectable column

with this one.

I am 100% behind afirmative action and any other legislation designed to give all people an even playing field, But paying off people based on somehting that hapened while no one alive today was a part of is rediculous.

this ranks right up there with mind control legislation as far as I am concerned.

[kertnom]

60. What about the chinese slaves?

Do they get reperations? How about the white male slaves? Do they get reperations?

[gottaB]

64. It's about justice and the very soul of our nation

I'm disappointed at how few people seem to understand the 2/3 compromise and the meaning of the first sentence in Article 1. Section 9 of the Constitution:

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

That means that the government directly profited from the slave trade.

African Americans fought to free this country from the tyranny of King George, and yet racism was incorporated into very framework of our government. That's an injustice that must be addressed if the promise of liberty and equality and everything else laid out in the preamble is to have any meaning. Whatever it was about in the past, if we are to have a future it has to be about justice.

Who will say that justice is too expensive? Who will say that justice is too divisive?

I applaud Dennis Kucinich for making this an issue. It pains me sometimes to see these candidates stumbling all over themselves to quote the words of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., and yet showing almost no sense of what those words really mean.

Bravo, Dennis.

[snoochie]

65. I think anyone with a sense of justice and fairness

wouldn't react the way we've seen some react.

I'm not just disappointed... I'm thoroughly questioning my affiliation with the Dem party.

This just makes me sick. I have black relatives (yes by marriage), and dimissing people and their concerns like this... there's just no excuse. I mean if you had a valid reason, that could be argued on merits fine... but to say that we need to keep ignoring it because most people are ignorant and it would offend them?!

Are we progressives or status-quoives?