Did Brown via Trippi invent Whitewater?

[dsc]

according to some of the anti Dean brigade he did. To bad according to Senator Clinton he didn't. When this first came up I hadn't read her book yet so I wasn't able to prove what I remembered to be the case. Now I can.

On page 108 of Living History:

"Spoon-fed false informations by Bill's political adversaries in teh state, Jerry Brown recycled the charges for the debate in Chicago two days before the March 17th primaries in Illinois and Michigan. Brown accused Bill of steering state business to the Rose Law Firm to increase my income. It was a spurious and opportunistic charge and had no basis in fact.

On page 199 of Living History:

"The result was the first "Whitewater" story, an article that appeared on the front page of the Sunday New York Times in March 1991, in the middle of the primaries.

snip

"The Clinton campaign immediately hired Jim Lyons, a respected corporate attorney from Denver, who, in turn, retainded a firm of forensic accountants to assemble and explain the records of the Whitewater investment.

The Lyons report, which cost $25,000 and took a mere three weeks to complete, prved that Bill and I were equally liable with the McDougals for the original loan that we took out to purchace the Whitewater land . . . After the campaign released the report in March of 1992."


These quotes combine to prove that the NYT article came before Brown started the issue. According to the timeline in the second quote the article had to be either March 1 or March 8 of 1992. Otherwise three weeks would have taken them into April. The first quote sets the attack as happening March 15th or at least a week after that article appeared. That is the timeline I remembered and so does Senator Clinton. Thus Brown couldn't have 'invented' Whitewater.

There is also something else interesting about the first quote. Senator Clinton doesn't attribute the word Whitewater to Brown. This isn't difinative obviously but in absence of a transcript from that debate it does let one wonder. I tried in vain to find one but can't. Without it I can't say he didn't bring it up but I fail to see why Senator Clinton didn't mention it if he did.

So again we have story we like brought to you by the anti Dean side. To bad even Senator Clinton tells us they are wrong.

[blm]

1. Why the strawman? Who said Brown "invented" Whitewater?

Brown/Trippi did use the "spoon fed" GOP info on Whitewater to attack Clinton during a live debate in front of a NATIONAL audience. The Repubs always used this convenient fact to excuse their interest in it as a scandal. Why try to pretend it didn't matter?

btw....you think the Clinton's have forgotten that Brown/Trippi pulled that stunt? Has Carville?

[dsc]

3. You did

You specificly told me on DU1 that I was flat out wrong when I said the article came first. Deny it and I will find it when I get back tonight but you specificly said that. Second you still have shown no quote with him using Whitewater and the Senator doesn't say he did. Give me the quote and I will give you he brought it up but in any case I was right and you were dead wrong on which came first.

[blm]

5. I saw that it was in an Arkansas paper

and then redredged up in the Washington Post, but it didn't hit on the national radar screen until Brown hit Clinton with it at a televised debate. I specifically said that the story used by Brown came from GOP dirty ops.

I never said that Brown "invented" Whitewater. What an absurd re-invention of what was said.

[dsc]

8. I just proved it was on the front page

of the NYT either 7 or 14 days before Brown uttered a word. If that isn't the national radar screen then just what is?

[blm]

12. WHO used it?

Whether it was in a paper or NOT, it was put into play by the GOP and pressed into service by Brown and Trippi.

[dsc]

18. It was according to Senator Clinton

who I think might know more about this than you. Since you have yet to provide even one link in this regard. The only reason we know what Brown actually said is that a Dean supporter provided the link.

[blm]

19. I saw it with my own eyes.

and heard it throughout the 90s witchhunt on Whitewater. I didn't just get into politics in 2000.

[dsc]

22. The Republicans who lie can site

the Declearation of Independence for all I care. The NYT was first. You many wish to have facts you like but the ones that exist say Brown was relying on the newspaper's accounts.

[blm]

26. Doesn't change the fact Brown used it.

The story was already too miniscule to catch on. Brown made it a bigger issue, and did so when he knew he could get the most attention.

[dajabr]

2. More on this...

Excerpt from Brown staffer interview:

hum: Wasn't this the debate where Brown and Clinton got into a brawl?

Sastry: Yeah, the fight was over a Washington Post article. The TV executives sent us a fax saying there'll be no props allowed in the studio. When I showed up for the walk-through I said we're going to pull out of the debate unless we have props. This was a total bluff, we had no intention of stepping out of the debate. They knew the ratings would dive if we did. The Clinton and Tsongas people said sure, why not, because every other debate so far had allowed props.

On the debate day, Jerry Brown walked in there. Suddenly he raised a newspaper article and said, "Ralph Nader told me something last night that shocked me. Your wife funneled state money into her law firm, and you were involved in the Madison Savings & Loan and Whitewater. I think you're putting one over on the American public. You have a big a electability problem. It's right here in tomorrow's Washington Post."

Bill Clinton went ballistic. He said Jerry didn't belong on the same platform. They started yelling at each other so harshly that the Secret Service got up. Bill was pissed off and created the most dramatic moment of the presidential primary season. Tsongas dropped out five days later cause he got no press out of that debate. The cameras zoomed in on Jerry and Clinton. Tsongas was completely ignored.

http://alumni.eecs.berkeley.edu/~manish/essays/dinesh.html

[dsc]

4. Thanks

I do have to admit he said it. But my other point still stands.

[blm]

6. Your other point being

that I said Brown "invented" Whitewater? Hahahah....ridiculous. Anyone knows the difference between "inventing" and using GOP fed op research.

[dsc]

10. That it was an issue befor Brown uttered a word

It was on the front page of the NYT 7 to 14 days BEFORE Brown spoke. That is a national issue.

[blm]

13. Nobody paid attention to it, till Brown used it.

Brown gave it LEGS!

[dsc]

25. Yes it was a total non issue

despite being seen by some 4 million people on the front page of the paper of record. Sure it was.

[dajabr]

11. Using GOP research...

Is different than citing an article in the WashPost or, "The Paper of Record."

Now, if you could prove Trippi was the Post's or the Time's source for the story...

[11cents]

7. Brown didn't invent the Whitewater lie; he exploited it

And he's guilty at least of bringing it front and center, so that there was already a nascent Whitewater "issue" even during the primary campaign.

It's news to me that Trippi worked for Brown in 1992! As a resident of the city now misgoverned by Jerry Brown, one of the most irresponsible politicians of our age, this makes me think less of Trippi and perhaps of Dean as well.

[dsc]

9. It was on the front page

of the Sunday edition of the paper of record. That isn't nacient.

[blm]

15. Doesn't change the fact that he exploited it.

Sorry, dsc...that was a scurrilous charge with GOP roots. If you're going to throw something like that out at a debate you should be very careful about its veracity.

[dsc]

17. Just like Kerry did

when he accused Dean of having said he lacked courage on gay and lesbian issues (wait he didn't check that) and you said it was fine. Gee how standards change depending on the candidate for you.

[blm]

20. The paper said he did...

and it was a classic case of Dean having to correct the impression he gave. Blaming Kerry for that episode which started with Dean's shooting from the lip, as usual, is ridiculous.

Anyone with Kerry's record of advocating for gay issues for so long would be furious that they were dissed. Kerry has taken MUCH braver stands LONG before the Vermont Supreme Court ruled on civil unions.

[dsc]

23. This is rich

When Brown relies on the paper of record and he is wrong it is evil incarnate. Yet when Kerry relies on a paper and he is wrong it is Dean's fault. OK and it is the Dean people who make up rules as we go along. Sure it is. If you can't see that this is the exact same thing than you are so blinded by Dean hatred that you may as well just hang it up,

[blm]

27. Baloney...when Dean called for a retraction

his camp should also have let the Kerry campaign know that he didn't mean exactly what the paper said. Retractions don't make the main parts of the paper do they?

[dsc]

28. You're kidding right?

The standard now is that the person who was misquoted not only has to get the correction but is also responsible for calling other campaigns to inform them of that fact. That is a truely bizarre standard.

I am trying to figure this out. Brown was wrong to use a story in the paper of record without checking out the facts. Dean is wrong for being misquoted, calling the paper's attention to the fact he was misquoted, and then having the misquote used by another candidate to attack him.

So I guess your standard is that if you care enough to call for a retraction, and the paper actually decided to give you one, then you also have to call all opposing campaigns to make sure they know the article was retracted. But if, on the other hand, you decide not to call for a retraction, or can't get the paper to give you one, then other candidates are on the hook if they use the story.

That is simply amazing. So from now on Dean should let stories go and then when Kerry uses them in the future you will attack him right?

[Vis Numar]

14. Not Trippi

Trippi didn't work in this aspect for the Brown campaign.

[dsc]

16. Wasn't he the manager?

I have to give people this the campaign manager is responsible for the tone of a campaign.

[Vis Numar]

21. No he was not the campaign manager

so give it to the frenchman.

[dsc]

24. sorry

I was relying on another poster for that. Should have known better given that person's record on Dean but I gave benefit of the doubt.