Dean's Gay Marriage Nightmare

[robbedvoter]

 
 
Dean’s Gay-Marriage Nightmare  
The Massachusetts ruling is a reminder that this issue could sink the Vermont governor’s candidacy  
http://www.msnbc.com/news/996601.asp?0cv=KB20
   

NEWSWEEK WEB EXCLUSIVE 
    Nov. 21 —  This was the week of in-kind contributions to the Bush-Cheney campaign. Between the AARP’s endorsement of the Republican Medicare plan and the Massachusetts Supreme Court decision paving the way for gay marriage, Karl Rove is getting everything he wants.  

 
 
       SENATE DEMOCRATS ARE scared to filibuster a prescription-drug entitlement even though they think the GOP plan is a scam, offering meager benefits while keeping drug costs artificially high and subsidizing the insurance industry. If the GOP can keep rebellious conservatives in line and eke out a victory in the House, President Bush can claim credit for the biggest expansion of Medicare since the program was created 40 years ago. The benefits won’t kick in until 2006 and the AARP membership is in rebellion. Nonetheless, Bush will have refurbished his compassionate-conservative credentials in time for the election.More...
It is clearly that Eleanor Clift is reading from Karl's memo. So far 2 silver bullets that media sat on against Dean are coming out.
Ya think 38% reselect from Faux poll caused to change tactics about fixing our primary?

[lastliberalintexas]

1. You are sooooo right

This issue only impacts Dean. Never mind that ALL of our candidates have come out in favor of civil unions. ONLY Dean will be hit. :eyes:

[robbedvoter]

4. Well, it was cooked for him by the RNC - provides easy sound bites

The entire Gay marriage amendment was proposed with Dean in mind.
Then the press cheered him on throughout the primaries - told us that he is it, don't bother voting anymore. Steve Case - notorious homophobe plunged money in dean's campaign and CNN has been pumping him up at other candidates' expense). It seems now that Unka Karl is worried and sent a new memo out (parts of it dully copied by Clift in the begining of her article). Karl will have Howards's teflon suit back now!

[lastliberalintexas]

6. Not an answer

Again, why does this issue supposedly ONLY affect Dean? Why wasn't this thread directed at the Dem candidates in general? Do you think that Edwards, Clark or Kerry will simply get a pass on this issue? Do you honestly think that Rove won't attack them as the lapdog of the militant homosexuals (or whatever that other article said)?

All of our candidates support civil unions, yet you direct your unease at Dean. I'm sorry, but I'd really like to know why. Otherwise, your criticism of only Dean can be written off as just dislike of that man.

[dsc]

8. The founder of Apple is a notorious homophobe?

I really want to see a link for that and you owe it to a man whose company has a sterling rep in the gay community.

[robbedvoter]

13. That would be Steve Jobbs - good guy. Steve Case CEO of AOL/Time Warner

has been boycotted by GLBT. His wife loves donating to groups who "straighten" gays. When buying CNN, Steve said he wants to change the world (or sumpthin like that). Soon after, most journalists there were sacked - the reminder - castrated.

[dsc]

17. Sorry I had the wrong person

but now I have a different question. Are you referring to the employees of AOL/Time Warner who have given money to Dean? To my knowledge that report didn't state what level those employes are.

[dkf]

2. I find it really sad that Democrats are going to use

prejudice against gays to hurt Dean.

[robbedvoter]

5. You think Eleanor Clift is a Dem? She's a media whore

It won't be democrats attacking Dean - they pretty much have similar stands on it. Just don't count on the press to lay off him anymore.

[ropi]

9. unless. . .

dean has a crafty PR person who can turn this on itself and use republican phrases like being a "uniter and not a divider" when it comes to all americans. . . or by playing a card by saying in times when terrorism is our greatest threat to national security, the worst thing we could do is show the rest of the world how we cannot come together as a country in order to protect all our citizens with the same rights . . .

or... he could be really savvy and look up the ERA and the history of it... he could read what Alice Paul wrote years ago about making everyone (men, women, etc . .)equal under the law and how it was twisted to seem like some sort of feminist conspiracy..then he could expose how it never was ratified after 80 some odd years...and then show how our fellow americans are so willing to make an amendment that restricts rights instead of making equal rights possible. .

there are a number of ways he could turn this on its head. . .but, i doubt if anyone in his camp will.

[Padraig18]

3. "The right thing to do."

After a Vt. SC decision, debate in the legislature and passage of the bill, Gov. Dean signed it. Bad, bad Dean! :eyes:

[robbedvoter]

7. You'll have to do better than that for them.

Remember, they already cooked up polls that 2/3 are against gay marriage - and I do mean cooked.

[w4rma]

10. Well, it's good that Dean doesn't support gay marriage, right?

…
DEAN: We have civil unions, which gives equal rights -- doesn't give marriage, but it gives equal rights in terms of insurance, employment rights, inheritance rights, hospital visitation, to every single Vermonter, no matter who they are.

You know, interestingly enough, Dick Cheney took a position in 2000 in the debates that is not very different than mine. He said, this is not a federal issue. I really am inclined to leave this matter to the states, and I think we ought to let states figure out how to give equal rights to everybody in the way that they do it. So I think this is kind of a political issue at the federal level, but the power to decide these things really belongs to the state level.

KING: All right. On your own state level, if it were a referendum, would you vote for gay marriage?

DEAN: If what were -- we don't have a referendum in my state, and we have civil unions, and we deliberate chose civil unions, because we didn't think marriage was necessary in order to give equal rights to all people.

Marriage is a religious institution, the way I see it. And we're not in the business of telling churches who they can and cannot marry. But in terms of civil rights and equal rights under the law for all Americans, that is the state's business, and that's why we started civil unions.

KING: So you would be opposed to a gay marriage?

DEAN: If other states want to do it, that's their business. We didn't choose to do that in our state.
…
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0308/04/lkl.00.html
http://www.howarddean.tv/

As for for the GOP prescription drug bill scam:
The benefits won’t kick in until 2006 and the AARP membership is in rebellion.

[ropi]

11. true. . .the polls are cooked up

but even polls can be turned. . .

all dean would have to do is stand firm on Civil Union and make the case there. He never endorsed "gay marriage" I believe that there was a discussion on how civil union could be used by any dem in the race to distance himself/herself from the buzz words: gay marriage.

there are ways to beat old rove...

i always wonder what happened to the idea of using the "master's tools to dismantle the master's house" ???

[Leovigild]

21. Cooked ?

Cooked polls ? Do you understand that between LA and the Hudson it's a religious, culturally conservative country ? Have you ever seen any of America outside NYC or San Francisco or wherever you're from ?

You do understand, don't you, that blacks, for instance, are overwhelmingly fundamentalist Christian or Muslim. Either way they have no more use for gay rights than white fundamentalists do. And a major problem any Democratic candidate who favors gay marriage will have is that it will be fundamentalist black and white voters who decide the nomination on Super Tuesday.

[sandnsea]

12. This is tough for everybody

Kerry voted against DOMA and has been a much stronger advocate of gay rights than Dean. Dean did what the Supreme Court told him to, he may have the easiest out actually. All candidates have supported civil unions and gay rights in one form or another. We either stand up for what we believe in or we have no right to be a party anyway.

[Padraig18]

15. Correction:

The courts did not order Gov. Dean to do anything at all. Gov. Dean chose to sign the bill.

[sandnsea]

18. Yes of course

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. It would be much more politically expedient for Dean to just say he respected his State Court and his responsiblity as Governor to uphold their decisions, and I'd say there's about a 90% chance he'll do just that. Oh, about next March or so, if he's still around.

[dsc]

19. This is one I can prove you wrong on

When he ran in 2000 for his last election as Vermont Governor he did the exact opposite of what you are claiming he would do. BTW the constitution of Vermont can be changed, I have posted how close to a dozen times.

[Padraig18]

20. No cutting off my nose at all...

... and no need to become snarky for having your blatant factual error pointed out.

[MercutioATC]

24. I love that word..."snarky"

Sorry, just thought I'd share...

[tsipple]

14. Karl Rove Has Videotape Already

All the Democratic candidates appeared at the Human Rights Campaign forum, hosted by Sam Donaldson, and stated their positions favoring civil unions (or, in some cases, marriage).

Rove has the videotape already. He'll attack any Democratic nominee.

The only questions is, wouldn't it make sense to nominate someone who already had this fight in his home state and who beat back the far right wing? Who managed to get the policy to stick, even into a Republican governor?

Only Howard Dean has done that: fought this battle and won. Nobody else has.

[Leovigild]

23. Rather silly argument

There is no Vermont far right wing. Vermont is all hippies and ski resorts. Hardly any social issue, religous right types. What Republicans there are are the old Edward Brooks, Margaret Chase Smith, Nelson Rockefeller Northeast types who ran the GOP before the Sunbelt shift.

The rest of the country is not hippies and ski resorts. It has a lot of fundamentalist Christians. Black and white.

[killbotfactory]

25. Do some research on the "Take Back Vermont" movement

A lot of those hippies and ski-bums seemed to have a problem with gay rights.

[xchrom]

16. another one

will it never end?
like gay people don't suffer enough from the right -- lo and behold the timid left has to cower and shake under the threat of a wedge issue being thrown in their face.
there's no such thing as an election cycle without wedge issues until the repukes and the corporate facists lose control. either dems buck up -- get a good gander at the superstitious arguments being thrown around and start pasting the right -- or fold the tents and go home.
dems aren't going to win without the dedicated left so stop asking them to be something their not -- instead empower them -- like the religous right -- to get the back of any candidate out there.
yeah it's a nightmare -- a nightmare of dem making if they let it be.

[killbotfactory]

22. Well, we might as well give up

I mean, there is no way in hell a candidate could actually lead and present reasonable arguements why gay rights are a good thing.

We should just look at the polls and cower in fear.

I'm sure gay marraige will be the only thing on the minds of voters come the 2004 election.