What is up with this FLAT TAX shineola. The Rethuglicans must be....

[illini]

desperate to take some heat of poor Georgie. They are pulling out the old Grey FLAT TAX mare and are going to whip it some more. Does anyone believe a regressive tax is the way to go???? Get ready for the Spin machine to go into overdrive on this one.

[ranosgol]

1. flat Tax means rasied taxes

Flat tax crap means higher taxes for everyone except the very wealthy who would get a massive tax cut.

[idlisambar]

3. Surprise -- the "very" wealthy might lose out with a flat tax

Unbelievable but true....

http://www.forbes.com/ceonetwork/2004/02/12/0212chat_transcript.html

It is the upper-middle class and slightly wealthy who bare the highest tax burden these days, and the burden is shifting down the ladder.

[Libs Bite Back]

10. The wealthy have dismantled the progressive tax system

The very wealthy might lose only because they have been so successful at dismantling the progressive tax system. Many now pay a smaller percent of their income in taxes than much of the middle class. A flat tax might only obligate them to pay an equal amount which to many people would still be unfair.

The problem with tax and wealth distribution discussions is that they go over the heads of so many people that they become easy to spin by the right. I have tried to write an entertaining and simple explanation of what the rich right is up to on my site http://www.liberalsbiteback.com entitled "How the rich right is trying to become the permanently mega rich and the rest of us permanently screwed."

[idlisambar]

13. Nice Site

I haven't read "Perfectly Legal", but I've seen the author speak and am familiar with the thrust of his analysis.

By the way, welcome the the DU (from a sort of but not so newbie) :toast:

[Libs Bite Back]

16. Thanks

Thanks for the compliment re. my site, and the welcome. I will check out "Debunking...". Check out that one chapter in "Perfectly Legal" when you feel like getting really pissed of about how the rich and powerful can f*ck with the poor.
http://www.liberalsbiteback.com

[NMDemDist2]

2. flat tax? yesterday I heard he was looking at a national sales tax

or a VAT

good grief, they really are trying to shove thru their crap agenda

[mcgregor]

14. VAT tax or National sales tax

will never happen, because that removes more than 90% of the legislative branch of government. Regardless of party the legislative branch draws most of its power from the annual tinkering with the tax system and granting privleges to special interest groups. Whether that be farmers,steel producers, or resturants, etc. A National sales tax works well because, guess what? Rich people spend more money! So who pays the highest rate of tax?

[tritsofme]

4. * is not articulate enough to explain this to the American people

he's good terra this and thugs that, his whole persona is that of a simple and down-home good ol' boy this is just an issue that is too complex for him. Someone like Steve Forbes could explain it, and make you feel pretty good about it, but Dubs just could never do it.

This is just throwing a bone to the base who loves this stuff.

[stevebreeze]

5. just consider that the maximum tax owed on the recent Microsoft

dividend is 15%. Most of us pay 15.65% just in FICA( SS & Medicare) then we get to pay federal income tax. Our system is so skewed already it is harming the economy. Money like fertilizer, works better when it's spread around a little.

[Wright Patman]

6. You are so right

What we have in terms of the payroll tax is a flat tax with an upper limit. It is hard to believe that Social Security was thought of as a radical "soak the rich" program at the time it was proposed by FDR. It is just the opposite.

The surpluses from the "trust funds" are taken from the working poor and used to offset tax breaks to the superrich and to fund military interventions abroad. They are replaced with IOUs. The IOUs are building up toward a future date on which a younger generation of Americans will have to tell that current crop of retirees that the debt is unsustainable and it is "Soylent Green" time for the elderly.

[German-Lefty]

7. I might support a Flat Tax -- On wealth

Get into a right wing mindset: the government is there to protect property. So how should this be paid for ...... a flat tax on wealth. Don't tax what they earn, tax what they own. I proposed this a while back:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=114&topic_id=516

So we take Mr. Rich's stuff. If he's got a billion dollars and he earns 5% and we tax him 10%, we've still only taken 0.5%. If he looses money we don't get anything.

It's like the system is designed to so that rich people should always stay rich, even if they don't earn profit from their wealth. Screw that, the only way people have a chance of becoming the elite is if the elite can fall.

Note that this kind of tax doesn't directly discourage people from investing or earning money. You better invest your money wisely or else it'll exponentially decay.

[whistle]

9. The rich and powerful have ways to protect and shelter property...

...from ever being taxed and will continue to maintain those ways. The scam is that the middle class will pay the most across the board. It's that way in Canada which adopted this way of taxation twenty years ago.

[German-Lefty]

15. Really Canada tried it?

Sure it might be hard to make the wealthy declare their stuff. It was easier with land. If you didn't pay your property tax, well I guess you don't live there do you???

So what do they call this tax in Canada?

There was some stupid quote from Bush saying we should raise taxes on the wealthy because they have accountants; as if we should just accept defeat, and that he who has the gold makes the rules. Screw that!!! We still have a democracy and the people make the rules.

[JohnnyFianna1]

12. I like that, if implemented correctly it could allow us to abolish the

estate tax.

[whistle]

8. Look, the flat tax is a sham, theory everyone pays one rate of tax....

...on all income, so the rate that has been suggested is 10%. That means that everyone gets an income tax reduction, but you also loose all deductions. Corporations get to pay zero taxes, since they are not real people. Profits are distributed to owners as dividends, which in turn get taxed at the flat tax rate. In theory everyone wins. In practice, the very rich get richer, wage earners pay a regressively higher proportion of their income in taxes, because they get no deductions. The national sales tax will end up being excessively high creating a 16% to 22% value added tax against all purchases. The economy has to go underground, because people will not pay such taxes and the system collapses. It will never happen, because neo-cons won't allow it, even though they advocate it. More Voodoo economics that will fail.

[ASanders84]

11. Please!

The U.S. is the least taxed developed country, awww poor rich folks!

[Lefty48197]

17. A flat tax is extremely regressive.

We should fight for a progressive tax structure on ALL fronts, just as the repukes have fought otherwise. The income taxes, both state and federal, should have brackets with tax rates that increase with income. There should also be large exemptions. $20,000 for each adult, and about $5000 for each child would be a great start.
Sales taxes are regressive, and we should always fight against having revenues funded by sales taxes. Property taxes and higher rates for higher brackets are the way to go. Reasonable estate taxes are also progressive.
The flat tax completly blows. No wonder the right wingers support it.