UK universities eliminating Chemistry departments: Decline of Science

[NNadir]

in the West.

"To scientists, it is nothing short of an epidemic. Over the last 10 years, more than 30 per cent of university physics departments have shut their doors. In that period, 10 chemistry departments have also disappeared. The epidemic of closures is expected to have a big effect on the UK's research capabilities.

Citing financial troubles and declining student interest, university vice-chancellors continue to axe physical science courses; three chemistry departments closed this year alone. With university students choosing more glamorous courses such as media studies, the sciences just aren't financially viable for some cash-strapped universities any longer. The number of students reading chemistry at university has decreased almost 20 per cent since 1996, from 13,923 to 11,625 according to the Higher Education Statistics Agency. The number of physics students has decreased by just over 9 per cent, from 9,990 to 9,045. And all this while the number of total university students has increased by about 11 per cent..."

Sometimes I feel as if it is only the United States where we are evolving into a "bread and circuses" culture of paper shuffling wishful thinkers. But the disease seems to have effected much of the English speaking West. Britain, where atomic theory was discovered, where men like men like Ernest Rutherford and William Ramsey worked, the homeland of Francis Crick, now seems to have abandoned science.

http://education.independent.co.uk/low_res/story.jsp?story=545675&host=16&dir=368

[wurzel]

1. Where there are no scientific jobs there will be no science.

Where there is no science there will be no scientific jobs. But there are many openings in Walmart and the Catholic Church.

[brokensymmetry]

2. It's worse than you think.

Good article, by the way.

The problem is, fewer and fewer Americans are going into science-oriented graduate programs. The classes are overwhelmingly foreign students.

For awhile, this worked out because the students stayed in the U.S. after they got their advanced degrees. But now, they're going home - meaning that we're facing a reduction in the number of highly trained scientists.

In my opinion, this is a formula for disaster. What will happen to the U.S. after we've gotten in debt to the rest of the world, made ourselves seriously unpopular everywhere, and sent much of our industry overseas? If we can't even come up with new ideas anymore, we face serious trouble.

Maybe I should check out the possibilities of teaching English in China....

[NNadir]

5. If our decline continues, maybe we'll need people to teach us Chinese.

Unless of course, we benefit from having our language be a what Latin once was, an extinct language from a fallen empire that is convenient because everyone speaks it. Worldwide, most of the business meetings I've been to, everyone speaks English, so that might help you in your new line of work. It certainly won't be because we have anything interesting to say though.

As for the rest of your post, you're spot on.

[Township75]

12. Very true...

I just earned my PhD. in chemical engineering in July, and during my time as a grad student, roughly 1/2 of the other grad students were foreign, almost exclusively from India, China and S. Korea.

After the patriot act, my friends from India said they would likely leave the US after getting their degree and working here for a few years. Even my friends from China wanted to leave. They would rather stay here than go back to China, but would prefer to go to Austrilia which they felt was more welcoming.

So we spend all that money and effort training people to become the best and brightest of other countries.

To exacerbate the problem, many of our nations college professors are close to retiring, so there will be a dearth of highly trained scientists for industry and for universities.

Most of the people I went to school with didn't want to put in the hours to be a good science student, so the majored in business, marketing, communications, or some other major. I spoke with a business prof a few years ago at my school and he stated he wouldn't hire anyone with a business degree, rather he would go for an engineering degree or science degree, because more analytical thinking goes into those types of courses.

I am afraid the future of science in the US doesn't look as promising as it once did.

[kestrel91316]

3. Can't remember the last time I encountered a high school student..........

or new grad who knew anything at all about any science. But boy, they know marketing and communications! We are in trouble.

[ramapo]

4. Scientists get no respect and little reward

It's the jobs (or lack thereof). Over the years I've seen the resumes of many people with amazing science educations who are looking for work as programmers because they couldn't find work in their field. Now there aren't even too many programming jobs.

Science education has gotten much lip service in the US over the past couple of decades. You constantly hear the mantra "We must improve our math scores" along with the admonition to striving high school students to take science courses.

But then what? Few pursue college careers in the sciences, after all science is hard. Even the medical sciences are falling on disfavor because being a doctor is no longer a guarantee of financial success.

And for those who go through college and obtain an advanced degree in the sciences, where are the jobs? You could work in the war industry but probably not in the space program as we don;t have much of a space program left.

Just another sad sign of our sad state of affairs.

[baby_bear]

6. Bush has made it worse

I'm a career federal scientist (environmental) with a doctorate, but this administration makes me feel that I would have more appreciation if I were cleaning toilets for a private company (not to disparge those who clean toilets, by any means).

W calls "us" the "bureaucracy."

I accepted substantial cuts in pay and pensions to become a career federal scientist.

Here's my message to Bush: Thanks for nothing, you silver-spoon scum bag. You have no idea how much many of us have and continue to dedicate to the republic of the US of A, and now we do it now despite your efforts against the environment, not because of your support. Republicans used to be conservationists; you have destroyed that reality, and that image.

I am now ashamed, instead of proud, to say I am a career scientist for EPA. Is that sad or what?

s_m

[midnight armadillo]

7. Not to mention the hostility to foreign grad students

I have heard endless horror stories about students who could not make it to the US for grad school in the sciences, or students who travel home and can't return for a year or more while their visas are delayed. Why? Because apparently Chinese and Indian scientists are the new face of terror.

Canada and western Europe are making out like bandits in terms of new talent showing up on their doorstep. The Bushies could not have made a bigger error in terms of compromising the US's future economic performance than it has in its direct frontal assault on science.

My wild-ass guess is that in 15 years the Chinese and Indian students won't even bother coming here since their homegrown universities will offer as good a research environment as US ones.

[Bdog]

8. I received an engineering degree late in life.

While I was a student, the college engineering core curriculum dropped two chemistry labs and has gone form three semesters of physics to two.

What I have noticed and what my professors complained about was many younger students could not think, work, or draw three dimensionally.

All of the local high schools have cut shop and drafting from their curriculum.

[brokensymmetry]

10. I think you're an optimist.

My wild-ass guess is that in 15 years the Chinese and Indian students won't even bother coming here since their homegrown universities will offer as good a research environment as US ones.


I'd bet much closer to 5 years. Once upon a time, the foreign students that graduated from U.S. Universities stayed in the U.S. Now, they're going home.

[ramapo]

13. Our society is such a disappointment

A career scientist with a doctorate should garner the utmost respect. The fact you work for the federal government should be seen as service to the country and gain you an even greater degree of respect from all citizens, not to mention the "leader" of our country.

It is truly an outrage that politicians lead the way against the government, as if 'the government' was made up of aliens or communists or some other anti-American force, and that people love it. Don't these fools realize that "we" are the government?

It is so sad that thinking, reading, logic, and most intellectual persuits are often denigrated. Kids are afraid of being smart, it's not cool.

Having a love of science and the environment, I often regret not having persued a serious eduction in this area. I used to think that although I would not join the military, I would be proud to serve in another area like the NPS. What a silly idealist!

[RebelYell]

9. We have no need for Science. We have the Bible.

The Bible explains all, no need for further investigation. <sarcasm off>

Seriously, this troubles me. We are taking a giant step backward.

[Donkeyboy75]

11. I actually just moved to Ireland

to find a position as a scientist, although I'm not too bummed about it. The danger of this Fundamentalist political regime interfering with science is becoming a reality...

[mastein]

14. Research funding has slackened

Thanks to 9/11, the slowing economy and the current cabal, funding for research and scientific advancement has slackened. Federal money has fallen at the same time donations to private groups (e.g., the American Lung Association) have fallen.

Do I think this is an intended goal of the current cabal? YES. They are fighting to bring us back to an age not seen in 1000 years, where faith not science is the dominant zeitgeist.

I am a masters degreed scientist working for a contractor to the Federal government, NOT in the defense industry and am damn scared about losing my job due to lack of funding. That is on top of the fact that I make 10-25% less than my peers in industry because I have chosen this work rather than industry.

Mark my words though... when the next 9/11, or anthrax hits and our medical, scientific and emergency responder community governemnt service is shown to be as gutted as it is, the public will turn against the cabal... at least that is my hope.

Aw hell, Maybe I will go get a law degree and start to advocate for these causes and people, the way my new idol John Edwards has.

[LibLabUK]

15. Hmmm..chemistry

Although this is quite interesting, it's hardly a new story.

The university I attended had a thriving Biosciences department (which was offering 5 BSc courses which were consistently full) but a waning Chemistry department (which struggled to fill the courses it offered). I graduated in 1997.

I have a theory as to why this is happening. Chemistry isn't cool. Simple really. Biosciences and Physics are seen as cool fields, thanks in part to how they are portrayed in the media. Physics has people like Sir Stephen Hawking, and biology has Lord Winston... Physics has fusion reactors and blackholes, biology has Dolly the sheep and SARS. What and who has chemistry got?

I think the university applicants just aren't being inspired to study chemistry... it's not sexy or cool... which as a biologist* I think is about right... chemists smell funny. ;)


*I should point out that I, a biologist, did take the optional chemistry units in all my three years at uni... Organic Chemistry, Physical and Analytical Chemistry and Pharmaceutical Chemistry, and the three Pharma-Chem courses have left me in good stead for my current occupation in cancer research (primarily clinical trials of Rt and Chemo)... but I had to sit next to chemists... which was bad.

[mastein]

16. Chem does stink

I agree with you there, but, it is a necessary evil. To be an effective scientist in the biological sciences or physics one needs to know chemistry. As for stuff like method development no thank you. It is too difficult and not rewarding to do. I know I have been there and done that.

[Donkeyboy75]

17. As a biochemist (trained as a chemist)

I would agree with your post. But I do find that my background in chemistry equips me with some tools that biologists simply don't have access to. The drop-off in chemistry is, as you say, probably being counteracted by an increase in biology enrollment.

I have a hunch (and I thought the opposite four years ago) that chemists will be in higher demand in coming years. But they in turn have to diversify their interests to remain relevant, and some aren't doing that...

[mastein]

18. Speaking as an Industrial Hygieinest

I am seeing fewer folks having that chemistry background. But also with "advances" in things like control banding and other off the shelf managament strategies the need for someone who truly understands chemistry is waning. Sad but true.