I want to convert my gasoline car to diesel. Any suggestions?

[brainshrub]

I own a 1997 Honda CR-V and it's the best vehicle I've ever owned. The CR-V's 4-cylinder engine is a bit weak; but it's big enough to haul my climbing gear around, attractive, easy to maintain and I've NEVER had any serious engine problems. :D

She also has over 180,000 miles on her.

Obviously, I take impeccable care of my vehicle. I do most of the basic engine maintenance personally, and once a year a competent mechanic inspects the Honda from bumper-to-bumper to find problems before they start.

Still, 180,000 miles is a bit high, and, as much as I love my CR-V, it's time to start thinking about getting a new car before problems begin.

Or is it?

For the past few months I've been thinking: For significantly less money than it would take to buy a new car, I could replace the gasoline engine with a diesel. Thus, getting better mileage with the added bonus of being able to fit the car to run from veggie-fuel.

I have talked with several friends who I consider experts on cars. One was adamant that such a feat was impossible. His exact words were: "Brainshrub, if you actually convert your car to diesel... I'll let you run me over with it."

Of the mechanics I've talked to about this project, who think it's possible, I have gotten to following APPROXIMATE quotes.

New Diesel Engine, built to specs: Approx $2,500
Professional mechanic's labor: (40 hours @ $40 an hour) $1,600
Misc unforeseen expenses: Approx $2000
------
Total: $5,500

Since I am be willing to spend $7,000 - $15,000 for a decent used car, the prospect of refitting the CR-V is a great deal!

So, what do you think? Is this project doable? Has anyone ever tried this? What are your experiences? Any advice?

For the record, here are some of the basic specs for my car:

• Engine: 2.0 liter DOHC 16-valve 4-cylinder
  
• Horsepower: 126bhp SAE net
  
• Torque: 135 lb-feet @ 4300 RPM
  
• Transmission: Electronic 4-speed automatic w/On-demand 4WD
  
• EPA mileage estimate: 22/25 City/Highway
  
• Suspension: 4-wheel independent double wishbone
  
• Steering: Power-assisted Rack-and-pinion

P.S. (Buy the way, if you are considering getting a CR-V, do it. It's a great car... you won't go wrong.)

[BlueEyedSon]

1. Can't be done (mostly)

1. Get another car.
or
2. You need to change the engine. What makes this easier is if the manufacturer make vehicles both with your gas engine and a diesel engine, in which case there exists a diesel engine with sufficiently similar dimensions and mount points to make the job easier. Someone has done this with a Datsun 240z.

Check the links here under "Alternative Energy Technology":

http://doomsdayreport.com/links.html

[brainshrub]

8. Thanks for the link

I've been also considering making this a documented effort... to help others considering doing the same thing once the shit hits the fan. (Hello Peak Oil.)

[BlueEyedSon]

10. Looks like they moved this content, here's the link to the 240z conversion

http://www.veggiecar.com/

[southern democrat]

2. Most diesel repower engines are expensive $10,000 range

[brainshrub]

5. So far, I've gotten price-quotes for around $2,500.

But I'm still in the research phase. You could be right.

[KT2000]

3. Don't do it....please!

Diesel cars pollute more than gasoline. The pollution from diesel aggravates many health conditions including asthma. In some it causes headaches and nausea.

[brainshrub]

6. The point is to be able to go veggie-fuel

I have asthma as well, so I understand your concerns.

[drb]

4. It would be your worst freakin' nightmare!

Here's why: Your engine and transmission are computer controlled. The engine computer and the transmission computer talk to each other. If you change to a diesel, neither one will know what the hell is going on.

Theoretically, it's possble. In actual practice, buying a new car would be much, much cheaper.

[brainshrub]

7. I've thought about that.

That's why I'm going to research the hell out of this idea before I do anything.

My cost ceiling is $9,000. Anything over that ammount and I'll just buy a new car.

ON EDIT: I might have a Honda Dealership do the conversion to minimize the problem.

[TwentyFive]

9. Stay away from this!

Has somebody told you this is possible? How many CRVs have they successfully converted to veggie fuel? If you're the first one, you'll probably spend $5,500 and end up with a car that is no longer drivable.

Even if it was successful, you have to think about practical issues. How easy is it to obtain veggie fuel? If you break down, how easy is it to find somebody to work on you car?

My advice is to drive your CRV and save your money. There will be alot of hybrid cars on the market over the next few years, and their prices will come down. Ford is building a hybrid Escape SUV which is similar in size to the CRV. If you buy one of these cars, you will be 'voting' with your money for more fuel efficient vehicles.

[brainshrub]

11. But what if I can?

I've talked to a mechanic who claims to have done such a conversion with a flat-bed truck. (I forgot the model.)

As far as I know, I would be the first person to convert a CR-V to a diesel then convert it to be able to use veggie-fuel. That is one of the appeals of the project. Even if it costs me $7000, it's still cheaper than getting a decent used car.

I live in Asheville, NC. Getting the fuel here is no problem. The mechanic who does the conversion would be the person who would help maintain the vehicle.

The goal is to be able to stop using fossil-fuel to power the vehicle. As far as I can tell, even the hybrid cars use petroleum to get the hydrogen.

[Webster Green]

12. The hybrids that are popular now do not run on hydrogen...

They are a combination of internal combustion engines and electric motors.

[brainshrub]

13. And how are the combustion engines run?

Petroleum?

The hybrids are a step in the right direction, but I would like to be able to go off gas completely if I needed to.

[Webster Green]

14. Oh yeah....still petro...just a lot more efficient....

I hear you though, on the veggie-mobiles. We are seriously thinking of getting a VW deisel rabbit or something, and doing a conversion. Fuel is easy to get here in Sonoma County, CA as well. Veggie cars are gaining in popularity here.

[TwentyFive]

15. Re: But what if I can?

Asheville's a beautiful place...I was there a few years ago....ate at a really nice Chinese retaurant downtown.

Here are some things to consider.

1. Unless the mechanic is willing to give you a firm 'top end' price and warranty his work with a contract, you are assuming all the risk. If you spend $7,000 and he comes to you and says, "Gee, I didn't realize this engine wouldn't work...", what is your recourse?
2. Where do you bring your car if this mechanic quits the business?
3. If you move from Asheville or decide to take a trip someplace, where can you service and gas up the car?
4. What if you don't like the way it drives after the new engine? Your car will most likely be hard to sell, and I doubt you will get anything close to the $7,000 you put into it.
5. Is the mechanic willing to let you speak with the owner of the flat bed truck to see how reliable it is? Maybe even drive it?

The bottom line is that I agree with the previous poster who says the engine is integrated with so many other vehicle functions...transmission, computer, etc. The engine currently in your car is meant to go with these other systems. Changing one thing often causes bugs to occur in the other parts. It's like doing the first heart transplant....the patient didn't live that long.

I know alot about cars, and I think this project filled with hidden problems. But, IF you can afford mentally and financially to walk away from the money you invest...and the car itself...then go for it.

I still recommend doing something less risky.

[cprise]

16. You must really love that CR-V

Honda has a couple of newly-designed, high-tech 4cyl engines available now in the Civic, Accord, and CR-V:

FR-V AND CR-V DIESEL PREMIERE AT PARIS SALON
http://world.honda.com/news/2004/c040910_1.html

i-CTDi – Accord Diesel Developed For The European Market
http://www.all4engineers.com/print.php?alloc=34&id=224&lng=en


I think Honda equipment is your best bet for investigating a diesel conversion. Otherwise, you are dealing not only with more electrical and computer issues, but also the transmission: You will need a tranny with taller gearing for the conversion to work well. For example, at 80 MPH the engine in my VW Golf TDI runs at 2800 RPM; with the gasoline-engine tranny it would rev much higher and cut down the efficiency and life of the engine. At least you know there is a Honda CR-V tranny for diesels and a matching engine out there; then your only concern is the set of differences between 1997 and 2004 CR-V models.

There are websites in the US that discuss diesel conversions (often using VW TDIs). I know that the folks at these sites would be interested in your project:
http://forums.biodieselnow.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=45
http://forums.tdiclub.com

Also here is an interesting conversion project I came across:
http://www.eastcoastrover.com/Tdiconversions.html

Personally.. I think your best bet is to buy a used VW Jetta TDI Wagon and be done with it. :)

Good luck!

[brainshrub]

17. I do.

Thanks for the links.

If I do anything, it won't be until January of 2006. I'll spend 2005 saving money and doing research. I won't do this project until I understand the risks, dangers and benefits.

[midnight armadillo]

18. In principle you can do it

You can pretty much put any engine you want into it, given enough space, time, money, and effort. I know of an old Saab 900 hatchback converted to RWD and sporting a Mustang V8.

The most likely one would be the VW 1.9L turbo diesel, found on Jettas and Golfs. The CRV is a heavier car, and would likely be pretty sluggish with this engine. Most overseas diesel engines won't run here due to the crappy diesel fuel in the US (even running straight veg oil you still need some dino fuel). The driving dynamics may also take a turn for the worse depending on the weight distribution.

You would almost certainly need to ditch the AWD system and use the VW transmission as well. The engine electronics and wiring harness would also have to be replaced...not to mention custom fabrication for the radiator connections. The next problem is maintenance - you'd probably be best off picking one guy to do the work since no one else would have seen a diesel powered CRV.

This is a high risk project. I would NOT try it if the CRV will be your only car...you might be better off buying a used car for $7k and then saving your pennies for a very experimental conversion. Or just buy a used Golf or Jetta wagon TDI for $10k and be happy. You should be posting on some Honda and VW sites to get input from those enthusiasts (www.vtec.net and www.vwvortex.com). Good luck!

[BigDaddyCaine]

19. probably not possible

though i know little about switching from gas to diesel. For all the hassle i would just buy a used diesel if thats what you want.

[Lefty48197]

20. Be careful. It's not just the engine that wears out at 180K on a car

Just about everything else should be ready to go at any minute. Every belt, hose, wire, bulb, switch, lever, linkage, whatever.

[Township75]

21. I wouldn't recommend it, but if you want to, go for it!

I scanned the previous comments, so I will be brief and hopefully not repeat everything posted already.

I imagine you know this already if you reseached it, but the two engines work in completely different ways. Gasoline engines "fire" to the an ignition from a spark plug, whereas diesel engines autocombust due to high pressure. Not only will the engine need to be replaced but other parts may need to be added/removed, for example, the diesel fuel lines often have preheaters in them to warm the fuel during cold weather so they aren't inhibited to self-ignite. Basically, what I am trying to say is that it is more than just taking out one engine and putting in the other.

As others mentioned, a new engine won't make the 180k mile worn transmission any better or other car parts. So while this may cost less than a new or used car initially, you will likely be making more expenses down the line which may add up to the cost of a new car if not more.

But if you do want to do it anyway, I say go for it. Let me know how it turns out, PLEASE! I own a 98 CR-V and wouldn't trade it for anything, except maybe a new CRV. I absolutely love the way it handles, good gas mileage, and does a good job in snow. I won't get rid of my CR-V, it will just decide to quit.

Anyway, if you are considering a new car, another good choice is a Honda Element. A couple of friends of mine and I took a mtn biking trip down to your area, and used it. Really great vehicle.

[sabbat hunter]

22. hondas are known for

lasting a very very long time. it is not unheard of to have well over 200k miles on a honda accord.

as far as converting your current car over to alternative fuel it probably isnt worth it. in addition to the engine, you will have to replace the computer, fuel delivery system, transmission, cooling system. you basically will be building a new car. better off keeping what you got or trying to get a better hybrid/electric car.

david

[renaldo]

23. Briggs and Stratton

markets small diesels built in Japan under their name. A 30 to 40 hp diesel conversion based on one of these would probably get 70 mpg but you would pay a price in performance, although they would probably cruise at 55 mph all day. Check the Briggs and Stratton website.
We just bought a 2002 VW Golf which gets 53 mpg with careful driving. We love it.

[ohio_dem_52186]

24. I've helped repower a Ford Explorer with a diesel. Here is what I think:

There are a lot of good posts in this thread. Here is my two-cents...

Option A: Wait for Jeep to release their diesel Liberty in 2005 and buy one new... I've tested predecessor engine to the one in the Liberty and think it is a pretty good engine. I've even did some testing with it on 50% biodiesel, runs good.

http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/news/2004_04_02_05_jeep_liberty_crd_68888.html

Option B: Knowing how many technical difficulties you will encounter, your highest probablility option would be to gut the entire drivetrain (i.e. engine and transmission) and replace it with a new/used VW engine and manual transmission. Even at that, you will have a lot of work to do, such as finding solid mounting points on a unibody frame to mount this new powertrain into your vehicle.

Once the mechanicals are done, you are still left with an engine controller that thinks it is in a Jetta. This can be problematic given the number of computers in modern vehicles...

By high probability, I would say that myself (with an advanced mechanical engineering degree and experience in automotive engineering) would have about a 10% chance of success given your budget...

[TreasonousBastard]

25. OK, I read the comments so far...

and most seem spot on. Anything is possible, but is it worth it? Economically, it's highly doubtful that money would be saved after the cost of the conversion and especially if the current high price of diesel stays.

A couple of additional points...

After all is said and done, will this conversion actually be enviro-friendly? Diesels have particulate and NOx problems, and it's not clear that the agricultural and production practices to get that sweet biodiesel are all that clean. And, they use petroleum. You do have to come up with some calculations on the fuel mileage the conversion would get. Diesels have a higher theoretical efficiency than gas engines, but that could be lost in actual driving conditions. So it could possibly be a net increase in dino fuel used to run this thing, and it might make the planet messier in the process.

So, you find a diesel engine that fits and figure out how to hook it up to the AWD system, also dealing with the additional weight of the diesel engine-- I doubt diesels are as computer reliant as gas engines but it would still be some work to get adeqaute power to the wheels. You might even end up with a 2WD arrangement. Then what about the state inspection? Does your state allow such conversions?