Nissan Leaf - the first affordable electric car on the market?

[rollingrock]

The coolest thing about electric cars?
Never having to pull up to another smelly, overpriced gas station again.


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Nissan Leaf electric car unveiled
Aug. 2, 2009

Nissan on Saturday introduced an electric car prototype it calls LEAF. The automaker says the hatchback will be the first readily affordable fully electric car on the market when it arrives in showrooms next year. The car is highway capable and offers a range of 100 miles. Nissan says the car will be priced competitively against regular gasoline-powered cars of the same size and class.

Slated for launch in late 2010 in Japan, the United States, and Europe, the car will arrive on the market around the same time as the Chevrolet Volt.

Powered by a 24 kWh lithium ion battery pack mounted under the car’s floor, LEAF is based on a new pure-electric platform developed around the Tiida/Versa chassis. For reference, LEAF’s battery pack has roughly 40% the capacity of the one used in Tesla’s $100,000 Roadster.

LEAF can be charged up to 80 percent of its full capacity in just under 30 minutes via a quick charging station. Charging at home through a regular 220-volt outlet is estimated to take approximately eight hours. The vehicle’s motor is believed to deliver 107-horsepower and 206 pound-feet of torque...

www.leftlanenews.com/nissan-leaf.html

[elleng]

1. Looks and sounds great.

Keep this in mind, tho, according to an engineer friend of mine, it has possibilities for reducing Green-House gases only if we use nuclear (or some other) power; other wise, its coal fired electric generation.

For example, coal fired electric generation, done in Ohio, transmitted with losses to Wash. DC (where I live) used to power car, with more energy losses, does not reduce over-all Co2.

[rollingrock]

2. Um, that's not true

Electricity is produced by a variety of means including natural gas, hydroelectric, wind, solar, and nuclear. California for example produces most of its electricity through natural gas and other sources. natural gas is much cleaner burning than ordinary gas and coal. Only 20% California's energy comes comes from coal. Your friend sounds pretty clueless.

[elleng]

3. There is no need to call names. We are in the East, as I noted.

It would be quite sufficient to make your point by noting that in many places electricity is produced by natural gas 'and other sources,' so the validity of my friends point might vary.

[kristopher]

4. Your "friend's point" isn't valid. Period.

Using a mix of generating sources that is typical to the east coast (50% coal) the CO2 emissions of a PHEV are equal to an internal combustion engine car getting about 46mpg (overall average, not highway).

Perhaps if you didn't post right wing talking points that thin skin of yours wouldn't cause you so much pain.

[elleng]

5. What pain are you talking about?

Fortunately we haven't met. Right wing talking points and thin skin? This is a forum where we try to exchange useful and interesting information, I think.

I am thinking of acquiring a car after the usefulness of my '93 toyota wagon expires, and have been thinking of a hybrid. I showed the Nissan info to my friend the engineer, and he commented on it. You don't want to think about his comments, fine, don't.

[kristopher]

7. His (YOUR) comments are false.

It is a repetition of right wing talking points. When someone said your "friend" was clueless, they were being kind; the fact is that the efficiency gains for electric vehicles far outweigh the difference in emissions between coal and gasoline.

[rollingrock]

6. No offense

I just get irritated when people say stuff that isn't all true. And there's way too much misinformation out there. Your friend is right though, Ohio and DC are some of the worst polluting states in the country. Ohio gets something like 70% of its electric power from coal, in DC its about 50%. Not as bad as Ohio but still bad. DC could convert all or most of its coal plants to natural gas if it wanted to, but the only thing stopping them from doing so is the coal lobby and the coal state politicians.


Also, I want to correct a statement I made before.
California is now getting actually less than 5% of its energy from coal.
The 20% figure I said before is outdated.

Out of California's 66,105 MW of electric generating capacity,
60.7% comes from natural gas,
20.2% from hydroelectric dams,
6.9% from nuclear,
4.2% from geothermal,
3.1% from wind.

[elleng]

10. Thanks, 'rock.

I get irritated when people call names when others are trying to address an issue; I know there are facts and arguments on each side. I'm a lawyer, after all!

Its laughable to suggest that my friend would send rw talking points, as my friend is about as left as one can go!

[kristopher]

11. You're a very capable person.

You wrote:

I get irritated when people call names when others are trying to address an issue; I know there are facts and arguments on each side. I'm a lawyer, after all!

Its laughable to suggest that my friend would send rw talking points, as my friend is about as left as one can go!

The other day you wrote:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x66072#66166
I feel it saved my life - I did not take Lipitor lightly. Did a lot of research (I'm a nurse) and asked family members (doctors) for their opinion. Each to his own. No need to get upset.

A nurse and a lawyer; I'm impressed.

[elleng]

12. Not I!

I'm JUST a lawyer! Tho I do take lipitor!

[kristopher]

13. OK

Of course that begs the question, "Why did you write that you were a nurse?"

[elleng]

14. I DIDN'T write it!

Check the name of the person who did so.

[kristopher]

16. My apologies.

My perception of a similar style along with the perils of growing old and not wearing my cheaters.

Again, my apologies.

[Ready4Change]

8. You (in Wash. DC) get power from many sources.

Mainly there are coal fired plants in south DC along the Anacostia River, much closer and with much less loss than anything from Ohio. They are old, dirty plants which would be great candidates for replacement even if it were by 'cleaner coal' plants. (I wish the term was 'cleaner' coal rather than 'clean.' Much more accurate.)

Some of your power comes from other coal plants along the Potomac further north. And a small amount of your power comes from the nuclear plants at Calvert Cliffs. Those are closer than Ohio too.

But, if you must create talking points against EV's, might as well look at the losses due to pulling power from California. Makes almost as much sense as Ohio.

[diane in sf]

9. Your friend is wrong, even if you were using all coal, it would still reduce the CO2

[madokie]

15. Wrong

Nothing you typed is correct it's all wrong except maybe the fact the engineer is a friend of yours. Not to be ugly to you but this is bullshit