|
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend Bookmark this thread |
This topic is archived. |
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy |
profgoose (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-16-10 10:07 AM Original message |
The Future of Capitalism - Profits and Growth |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-16-10 10:22 AM Response to Original message |
1. Mobus' straw man is simply wrong. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Nederland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-16-10 10:52 AM Response to Reply #1 |
2. Agreed |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Terry in Austin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-17-10 03:55 PM Response to Reply #1 |
16. No counter-argument? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-17-10 07:20 PM Response to Reply #16 |
22. That's the Burden of proof fallacy |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
bhikkhu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-17-10 11:21 PM Response to Reply #22 |
24. kind of like saying "its flat wrong" without anything to back it |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-18-10 10:58 PM Response to Reply #24 |
28. If that were true, you wouldn't be able to post that, would you? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
skids (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-18-10 04:26 PM Response to Reply #16 |
26. Efficiency is the obvious counter-argument. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 05:52 AM Response to Reply #26 |
30. Efficiency is not infinite. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 08:12 AM Response to Reply #30 |
31. Nor does it have to be. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
skids (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 08:00 PM Response to Reply #30 |
34. Well, a few things... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
h9socialist (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-16-10 12:00 PM Response to Original message |
3. Capitalism . . . is going to die! |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-16-10 01:11 PM Response to Original message |
4. Jared Diamond - Will Big Business Save the Earth? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
pscot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-16-10 07:45 PM Response to Original message |
5. The idea that growth is a function of energy input |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Statistical (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-16-10 07:48 PM Response to Reply #5 |
6. Producitivity increases? Efficiency increases? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
pscot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-16-10 09:22 PM Response to Reply #6 |
7. Is global economic growth |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-17-10 12:53 AM Response to Reply #7 |
9. Even the best case renewable scenarios save some 5 TW by 2030. But only 1 TW from now. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-17-10 10:40 AM Response to Reply #7 |
10. How would you characterize the switch to EVs? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
pscot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-17-10 01:56 PM Response to Reply #10 |
12. Since I have yet to see anyone driving an EV |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-17-10 02:03 PM Response to Reply #12 |
13. Well, since you can't admit the obvious... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-17-10 04:11 PM Response to Reply #13 |
19. I'd rather admit the obvious, that capitalism has no desire to pay for the externalized costs of... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
NickB79 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-18-10 06:22 AM Response to Reply #13 |
25. And when you try to give 2 billion Chinese and Indians a standard of living closer to that of the US |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-18-10 05:04 PM Response to Reply #25 |
27. Energy intensity is the measure that disproves the OP's thesis. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 03:59 AM Response to Reply #27 |
29. Oh fuck "energy intensity" which is just another way to say "business as usual." |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 10:55 AM Response to Reply #29 |
32. "China's energy intensity propaganda"? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-20-10 01:06 AM Response to Reply #32 |
35. Oh, so you're suggesting that China's Cop15 arrangement will avoid catastrophic climate change? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-19-10 11:07 AM Response to Reply #25 |
33. You might want to ensure you have the right picture in your mind... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-17-10 04:10 PM Response to Reply #12 |
18. EVs could bring our energy utilization down, however, with an increased standard of living... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-17-10 04:07 PM Response to Reply #10 |
17. Even if the switch to EVs occurred at a rapid pace, the planet is still on a path of increased... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-16-10 10:11 PM Response to Reply #6 |
8. Energy and productivity efficiencies can flatline energy use in a growing system... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Terry in Austin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-17-10 03:28 PM Response to Reply #6 |
15. Growth implies increase of some kind |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-17-10 04:13 PM Response to Reply #15 |
20. There are a crapload of efficiency gains to be made of course. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
pscot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-17-10 04:52 PM Response to Reply #20 |
21. I think that's the point I was making above |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-17-10 07:25 PM Response to Reply #5 |
23. Hubert didn't talk about total energy. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
BeFree (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-17-10 10:58 AM Response to Original message |
11. Grow or Die |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-17-10 02:40 PM Response to Original message |
14. Interesting comment by WebHubbleTelescope |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Tue Sep 24th 2024, 11:11 AM Response to Original message |
Advertisements [?] |
Top |
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy |
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators
Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.
Home | Discussion Forums | Journals | Store | Donate
About DU | Contact Us | Privacy Policy
Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.
© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC