U.S. Solar Installers Oppose China Trade Complaint

[kristopher]

U.S. Solar Installers Oppose China Trade Complaint

A trade complaint filed against China’s solar manufactures three weeks ago has forced members of the U.S. solar industry to take sides. A group of 25 manufacturers and installers, including SunEdison and SolarCity on Tuesday said they are banding together to oppose the complaint.

The formation of the group, called the Coalition for Affordable Solar Energy (CASE), is the latest twist in a fight over complex issues about fair competition and the role of government subsidies. The trade complaint, filed by a group led by SolarWorld, contends that Chinese solar panel makers – which receive hefty financial support of the Chinese government – have been flooding the U.S. market with products at unfairly low prices. SolarWorld’s group is asking the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Commerce Department to investigate Chinese silicon solar cell and panel makers and impose duties on what they export to the United States (solar cells are assembled to form solar panels).

...The trade complaint has materialized at a time when solar manufacturers worldwide are struggling. The global solar market has been marked by a glut of solar panels, and their prices have fallen by 30-40 percent this year. The oversupply has come largely as a result of countries such as Germany and Italy, which are the biggest solar markets, that cut their incentives for installing solar. The weak European financial market also has made it more difficult for developers to line up project financing. Prices for solar panels have gotten so low that analysts believe some companies are selling at a loss.

Some manufacturers that can’t compete, such as Solyndra, have filed for bankruptcy while others, including SolarWorld, have shuttered factories or scale back production. At the same time, lower panel prices have helped to reduce the cost of solar electricity and make solar projects more attractive in growing markets such as the United States and India.

The new coalition called the trade complaint “short-sighted” and said ...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/uciliawang/2011/11/08/solar-trade-dispute-over-china-intensifies/

[Confusious]

1. They probably get their panels from china

There is no honor when it comes to money, as much as some around here?????? seem to think these companies are the second coming and the end all be all of economic justice

meet the new boss, same as the old boss. One picks you pocket and belches carbon dioxide, the other just picks your pocket.

[kristopher]

2. Nuclear and coal are not at all like solar.

One is a system of centralized control and the other is a commodity like a tv or refrigerator. I don't expect someone dedicated to nuclear power to appreciate difference or even want it to be known.

[txlibdem]

5. Solar is a commodity if it's a small panel or is NOT installed by a Solar company

When they give you a quote of $30,000 to install $12,000 worth of equipment, that is not something I would liken to a tv or a refrigerator.

If you have the know how to install the solar panels all by yourself, then what you wrote is true.

/edit to add: if it's a small solar panel that you use to keep your car or other battery topped off, or just for "tinkering" around with solar.

[kristopher]

7. Your lack of knowledge is nothing short of staggering.

And in this day of search engines and the internet it is inexcusable.

[txlibdem]

9. I invite you to contact 3 solar companies and get quotes - it will expand YOUR knowledge

You chastise others for lack of knowledge while displaying yours with huge neon signs.

How, dear friend, do you think I knew how much the equipment actually cost (and that's retail cost!)??? I looked it up on the internet and added a couple thousand for cables, connectors, etc.

If you've never received an actual quote from one of these solar companies then you are just talking out your "lower orifice."

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. Why would he do that?

Any outside opinion would cause such cognitive dissonance the damage would be massive

[kristopher]

12. That has absolutely nothing to do with the difference between a commodity ...

...and quasi-governmental energy monopolies.

[txlibdem]

13. Do you even know what a commodity is??? Your answers suggest you don't

"Main Entry:com·mod·i·ty
Pronunciation:\kə-ˈmä-də-tē\
Function:noun
Inflected Form(s):plural com·mod·i·ties
Etymology:Middle English commoditee, from Anglo-French commoditee, from Latin commoditat-, commoditas, from commodus
Date:15th century
1: : an economic good: as a: a product of agriculture or mining b: an article of commerce especially when delivered for shipment <commodities futures> c: a mass-produced unspecialized product <∼ chemicals> <∼ memory chips>
2 a: something useful or valued <that valuable ∼ patience>; also thing, entity b: convenience, advantage"

http://www.britannica.com/bps/search?query=commodity

Definition 2.a and 2.b. could apply to any electricity generated by any method or means. But thanks for playing...

[kristopher]

14. In this context anyone with any knowledge knows def 1c applies.

It's obvious that your lack of knowledge is willful, which makes it even worse.

[txlibdem]

15. The test: sell your solar back to the grid

Then build a small coal-fired generator, sell that electricity back to the grid.
Then build a natural gas fired generator, sell that electricity back to the grid.

Guess what? They are all the same. You can put some contraption on your property that generates electricity and you can sell it back to the grid. You will receive money from the grid... therefore the electricity of all 3 options HAS VALUE and definition 2.b. applies.

There is nothing stopping you from getting the solar quotes except the fact that you know it will prove me right.

[kristopher]

16. Like I said, you are being deliberately obtuse.

You've already admitted (post #5) that you know this refers to the hardware and systems, so why do you play these silly games. Please grow up or go play in the sandbox with the other infants.

[txlibdem]

17. This refers to the hardware and systems? Just as I answered in my post.

You have no answer to my post and are trying to steer the conversation, I see that. Fail.

Home solar is no commodity unless you can buy it and put it into use yourself, just as you would take home your new tv and plug it in yourself. Period.

[kristopher]

18. First you said hardware but drew the wrong conclusion

Then you said in effect "energy is all the same", drawing yet a different false conclusion.

Now you are back to hardware still with the wrong conclusion.

You've demonstrated your deficiencies so many times I'm starting to feel a great deal of sympathy for you, but your false proclamations need addressing. Maybe this will help. When a product is one that can become indistinguishable from others like it is a commodity. Just like TVs. It really doesn't matter if you get a Sony, an LG or a Sanyo, they are all virtually identical and the manufacturing process is universalized.

It has nothing to do with anything that you have imagined.

Nothing.

Go play in your sandbox.

[txlibdem]

19. You mean like these?

Gasoline powered:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/187-4732330-3871834?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=generator&x=0&y=0

Natural gas powered:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dinstant-video&field-keywords=natural+gas+generator&x=14&y=21

I had trouble finding a retail version of an oil burning and coal burning electric generator but you're a smart person, you can either find one or hire someone to build you one.

So they are ALL commodities. Or none of them are commodities. Either way your argument is disproven.

[Confusious]

8. Of course

Solar companies are the new Jesus Christ right? they are all here to save us and care nothing for money.

Of course, this article says different.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Anyone who expresses even the tiniest of doubts about solar and wind is a heretic. They can do no wrong, even if they're doing wrong!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

10. No where was that even brought up

But then again I do not expect someone dedicated to the slamming of others to acknowledge that

[Gregorian]

3. This is the showdown I've been waiting 30 years for. It's the war under the radar screen.

And to think big oil was buying up solar companies and bankrupting them back in the last years of the previous century. What a waste. Now China is looming it's head.

All in all it's really exciting. And from the article, the sentiment is that there's truly an interest in lowering the cost of solar.

[kristopher]

4. +1

[txlibdem]

6. +100

"big oil buying up solar companies" - amazing how the price of solar panels stayed too high for so long isn't it...