I need to buy a car...any suggestions?

[rhiannon55]

It needs to get good gas mileage, be reliable (I'm close to retirement age and I hope it's my LAST car), and be big enough for my two grandbabies (ages 2 and 8 months) and their mama to go with my husband and me on occasional road trips. I'll need to make payments of no more than $300 a month. Since I don't want to be paying for it for more than 3 or 4 years, a new car might not work, but near-new would be nice.

I would really appreciate any ideas.

:hi:

[AndyA]

1. Please buy an AMERICAN CAR. Support AMERICAN companies,

and AMERICAN jobs. There are some excellent American cars out there right now, and there are thousands of auto workers who need the support of their fellow Americans now. The American car makers need your business.

[Hav]

3. .

Hm and there are also many foreign companies in the US providing jobs for Americans.

[AndyA]

4. The PROFITS still go overseas. A foreign car is...a FOREIGN car. n/m

[CountAllVotes]

8. yeah and the engine is made in China

[Hav]

9. .

I understand you, but my point is that many Americans just as well rely on a foreign company to make good profits so that they can keep their jobs.
They don't need to build their cars here if Americans boycott them for being foreigners.

[redqueen]

10. Pfff... if the workers are employed elsewhere, what does it matter

where the profits go?

Factory here = good for workers.

I wonder what kind of taxes AMERICAN car companies pay on those profits, anyway.

[last1standing]

11. Where do domestic car profits go?

I'm all for supporting American workers, but I don't give two shits about supporting the executive class who will funnel their money into offshore tax havens and overseas investments anyway. So if a "foreign" car is built here, by American workers, why is it better to buy "domestic" if more of it's production is likely to be done overseas?

[AndyA]

18. Last I heard, American car makers were in trouble, and were

laying off American workers. All of which has a domino effect on the rest of the American economy. Suppliers are hurt, they in turn lay off workers, etc.

If you have to support the executive class somewhere, it might as well be here instead of overseas. Put America first.

[redqueen]

22. They're not in that much trouble,

if they were executive pay would be in trouble, too.

They aren't closing down factories... they're MOVING them... to places where they can pay workers less, then ship the product back here for suckers to buy so they can support American car companies PROFITS, not workers.

Screw them. If the cars aren't made here, screw them.

[AndyA]

29. Ford just announced it's closing 10 American factories, and laying

off those workers, until the end of the year. That's what buying a foreign car has done for your fellow American workers. I'm sure they don't mind your supporting foreign car makers, they'll get by somehow...

[redqueen]

33. MOVING, not closing...

They're not opening up any factories overseas?

C'mon...

Wait, no... I have a bridge to sell, actually.


And FWIW, I drive Fords. I like Mustangs, and that's all I've ever bought (2 so far). Looking for a Focus Wagon now, actually, due to having a family now. But if I find a deal on a Scion xA or a Toyota Matrix, I'll take it and feel no guilt whatsoever because greedy American executives prefer to keep the profits for themselves during troubled times.

This mindset that people should worship corporations and be thankful for whatever crumbs the fatcats leave for workers has to GO.

[AndyA]

39. Cutting production, closing plants for extended periods. Not moving.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/18/news/companies/ford_production/index.htm?cnn=yes

Perhaps some of these jobs will come back, perhaps not. Could you stand to have no job for the rest of the year, in the hopes that you might go back to work in January or February?

I'm not saying that corporations are good, but if you're going to support ANY corporation, keep it in America instead of supporting the ridiculous notion that the worldwide economy is actually good for us.

[Oerdin]

54. Or how about...

The domestics just make better products? I'm going to buy the best car I can and if Ford or GM want my business then they'll have to make better cars more suited to my tastes. It is as simple as that.

[atfqn]

59. Seriously lay off the kool aid.

It isn't the fault of the intelligent that they chose a car that gets the best gas mileage and has the greatest reliability. These cars waste less and provide a greater value. There is no law that says GM, Ford and Chrysler must make shitty vehicles. This is the same nonsense they tried passing off in the 70's. American companies won't acknowledge what everyone else has already learned - gasoline will only become more expensive. I am all for supporting american workers but supporting their ignorance and the executives who perpetuate it can join the rest of us in the unemployment line.

[last1standing]

50. I won't get into the argument you and Redqueen just had.

But I do want to say a few things.

First, as executives in the US reap many times the salary, bonuses, and other perks than their foreign counterparts, we are putting more money into the US economy when we buy a "foreign" branded car made in the US than if we buy "domestic". This has been proven time and again so no matter what your opinion is on this, the facts still point to the benefits of buying a domestically produced "foreign" vehicle. To suggest that it's better to give the investor class more money just because their headquarters happen to be located in the US is not very logical or helpful to the economy. Let's put our money where its going to help the most people.

Second, the plants being closed through the rest of the year are plants that produce Ford's largest and least efficient trucks and SUVs. People aren't buying these vehicles because of the recent increases in gas prices, not because they want to drive a Tacoma or a Tundra. With Ford's recent decision to produce more fuel efficient cars, hopefully they will soon be able to reopen these plants.

Third, I'm a Detroit resident who has watched and been affected by the auto economy my entire life so I know better than just about anyone what happens when you buy "foreign". I also know that GM, Daimler-Chrysler, and Ford have been shipping more and more jobs to Mexico, Russia, India, and China over the last 30 years just like every other "American" manufacturer. We won't save US jobs by buying American, we'll only increase the profits of a few people who don't give a damn about American employees or American itself.

Lastly, I'd be careful about throwing out insults like Anti-American. Some of us, namely me, consider that to be over the top and uncalled for. I've not insulted you, and I expect the same consideration.

[GreenTea]

5. 80% of most Ford parts (and other American cars) are imported, you will be

very hard pressed to find a 100% built American car if there are any, anymore.

And most Toyota's for domestic use are built here in the US.

[AndyA]

15. You are missing the big picture here.

Whatever profits are made from the sale of an American car, regardless of where the parts came from, stay IN AMERICA. A Toyota, Nissan, or whatever still supports its FOREIGN corporate ownership.

People feel good because they buy a Toyota made in Alabama, or wherever. But the profits from the sale of that car still go to the FOREIGN company's headquarters overseas.

Whatever happened to pride in America? Just because our current President is pimping America to the biggest foreign bidder, doesn't mean everyone here should go along with him.

I see our jobs going overseas, and lines of foreign cars waiting to pull into a Wal-Mart parking lot to buy foreign goods. It's a disgrace. And people wonder what's happened to America...

[redqueen]

Why does that matter?

If the PROFITS, which you seem to think are so all-important, stay in the hands of the investor class, and they don't 'trickle down' to help anyone else, tell me: what difference does it make?

[AndyA]

24. At least it keeps the profits in America, instead of a foreign country.

I'm not saying that it's OK for the investor class to retain the profits to the detriment of anyone else, or that it's an ideal situation, or even acceptible, but if you're going to wind up supporting something, why not support your own country before a foreign one?

[redqueen]

28. Because it's not supporting my country,

it's supporting a company that refuses to pay American workers, preferring to ship jobs overseas.

"why not support your own country..." that's just nonsense. Since the WTO, there is no nationality to international companies anymore, or hadn't you noticed?

[AndyA]

35. I'm glad our forefathers didn't have this attitude.

I'm glad they had pride in America, and often gave their lives so that we could what...give it all away to a foreign country?

I'm sure they're rolling over in their graves.

American companies are taking advantage of every break they can get, just like the foreign ones are. I'd still rather support an American owned and American based company rather than a foreign one. Or have you not noticed how much foreign ownership there is in America now?

I for one, do not believe it is a good thing to have a foreign company own most of America.

[redqueen]

37. You're deliberately ignoring

what's actually going on.

Good day. :)

[AndyA]

40. I would say you have no pride in America, and no concern for your

fellow American workers.

Profits are always going to go to some big corporation, I'd just rather those profits stayed here in America, instead of some overseas company with a vested interest in a foreign country.

Today's friendly foreign country is tomorrow's enemy. Check out Saddam Hussein and Iraq, if you don't believe me. We were pretty friendly back in Reagan's era.

[MercutioATC]

19. "American car" = $$$$ in wealthy American pockets.

"Foreign car made in America" = $$$$ in the rest of our pockets.


I'll buy a Honda or Toyota made in the U.S. before I'll but a Ford made in Mexica.

[GreenTea]

23. American cars suck! That's the bottom line for me. The maintenance cost,

breaking down, the headaches...Americans cars can't touch a Camry or a Honda or some other 'foreign' cars built in the US.

I've owned a brand new Taurus, Ford & Chevy pickups, and Americans cars thoughout my life, as well as family and friends...

An American car can't touch a Camry (which I've bought four of them, two for my wife and one for my son, sold one and it's still running perfect and the guy is happy as a clam)... And I've upgraded and owned three Toyota pickups 4x4's -- Two of them brand new Toyota 4x4 pick-ups and after my current one hits near 300K in mileage I'll buy another...

There is no comparison in reliability, maintenance, gas mileage, style and value of a Camry compared to American cars in the same class...I can tell you horror stories about my once brand new Ford Taurus, (not to mention other American vehicles.

I'm going by my personly experience and friends and family.

I'm glad I ignored that redneck bullshit of a while back, of just buy America cars...Shit, I'd be in the "poor house" if I listened to those clowns.

[midnight armadillo]

51. So explain this to me...

Should one buy a Ford Fusion built in a MExico plant, or a Mazda6, made in Japan (owned by Ford), or a Saab 9-3 Aero (made in Germany and Sweden, Australian engine, owned by GM), or buy a Hyundai (built in US) or Honda (built in US)? Which one means more American jobs, hmm?

There are no more "American" car companies, just international ones that began in the US who would prefer not to employ any American employees due to health care costs. I will bet you $1 that you CANNOT buy any new car on the market whose components are 100% domestic. Wager payable via Paypal ;)

If Rick Wagoner or Bill Ford want my business, they should start by building cars people want to buy. For the record, we have a Honda ODyssey (built in Ontario, oops, by union labor, yay), a Saab 9-5 (a GM car), and previously owned a Subaru Legacy (built in Indiana), and note that GM owned a big chunk of Fuji Heavy Industries when it was built. So am I patriotic or not?

[atfqn]

58. I will buy an american car

when they decided they want to play an active role in helping america. They have chased profits and have offered little to no innovation. They purposefully chose to ignore an important target market - those who wish to be efficient and have low impact on the environment. I lived near GM's ONLY automotive Advanced Technologies Facility. Google it and you will see. They layed almost everyone off and the facility has now become a farce after they produced the ev-1. They had a winning ticket and they killed it. This isn't about the movies or documentary nonsense either. I saw and rode in that car, knew people who owned it and talked with engineers who worked there - they pulled the plug on their own best chance.

[GreenTea]

2. A Camry. extremely reliable, decent on gas & has all the luxury features.

There are so many fine used ones around.

The low maintenance cost is worth it in itself, amazing, and the cost for a fine use one is low.

[kurth]

31. I put 250,000 mi on a Camry

Changed the plugs, timing belt, battery, thermostat & water pump ONCE, but changed tires numerous times. The thing just refused to die with minimum maintenance.

[GreenTea]

36. I know it to be true...extremely well built cars, pure value for the bucks

[CountAllVotes]

6. A used Honda Accord

I have a 4-cylinder 2002 SE. It is a great car and I drive very little. It gets about 30 mpg freeway; 25 or so around town. The new Accord Hybrids get about 2 or 3 mpg more than this one I have does so it is not a wise one to buy IMO.

I never plan on buying another car myself. It is more of a mid-size car and it is comfortable for 4 people to ride in.

Best of luck!

[MercutioATC]

21. Agree!

I have a 1996 Accord LX with over 170,000 miles on it that gets 30+ MPG.

Great cars!

[CountAllVotes]

26. almost embarrassed to say how many miles I have on this car

had it for 5 years now and it only has 12,000 on it. It is worth the price I paid for it right now! :D :D :D

A wise investment! :D

:kick:

[MercutioATC]

34. I WISH I could do that...

I bought mine 6 years ago at 80,000 miles...the other 93,000 are mine.

(and I put a few thousand a year on my Porsche each summer)


It takes me about 8 months to hit 12k!

[mnhtnbb]

7. Try a pre-owned Nissan Murano.

[rhiannon55]

13. Tell me why...

I've been thinking about a Toyota Camry or a Honda, but I don't know much about Nissans.

[redqueen]

16. Toyota Matrix gets great mileage, and is roomy.

My head's so full of car stuff from this searching... :P

[jpak]

48. That would be my vote

I posted a thread a while back about a family in Maine the traded their Explorer for a Matrix.

Their gas bill dropped from $200 to $60 a month - a 70% reduction(!)

[kurth]

27. Toyotas/Hondas have a better record

Nissan may have some cool looking cars, but as far as reliability and resale value it's hard to beat a Toyota or Honda.

[mnhtnbb]

49. I've had Nissans and loved them. We bought our son an

Altima--and he's a car nut. My brother has a Murano. The reason I suggested that was for the space if you do many car trips with those grandkids. I think you'll want more room than an Accord to Camry would give you. The Altima, though is very spacious.

The Nissans I've had are very reliable, inexpensive to maintain, and I think, are just a little more jazzy than either Toyota or Honda.

[tinrobot]

47. Murano gets 20mpg

You can do better than that...

My Ford Escape Hybrid is getting 35-40

[redqueen]

12. You can find best and worst mileage here:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bestworst.shtml

The mileage doesn't vary too much year to year... and you can look up mileage for wahtever cars you find...

I've used Yahoo Auto to find locally-advertised models that I'm interested in. Pricing info can be found here: http://www.kbb.com/

Good luck!

I still haven't found one grrrr

[rhiannon55]

14. thanks for the link...

I'll try it.

[TlalocW]

17. Honda Fit

38 mpg. It's a hatchback, and they did something interesting with the seats in that if you want to fold forward the second row backrests like a normal car, you can, but you can also fold those forward in conjunction with laying the passenger front back and have a 7 foot space available (like if you wanted to put the surfboard that I'm sure you have inside the car), AND you can fold the second row seats (the actual seats) up against the backrests and have a four foot high space to put things.

It will seat five and might be a tight squeeze, but that would be true of just about any vehicle that would get good gas mileage - ie not an SUV/Van.

I'm thinking this will be my next car because I'd like to have the storage space that it offers without having to go SUV.

TlalocW

[Rhiannon12866]

20. Here's mine:

It's a 2001 Pontiac Grand Am, which I bought two years ago. I really love it... And I guarantee that you'd love it too...;)



BTW, my payments are $170 a month, over five years. I bought it from a friend, a guy who's into cars and sells them for a living, so he probably gave me a deal, but you can probably find one for a comparable price. I think it was $8900.:-)

on edit: Welcome to DU!:D

Rhiannon:hi:

[rhiannon55]

25. how's the mileage?

That's going to get more and more important as time goes on.

[Rhiannon12866]

43. I wasn't exactly sure, since I don't do that much driving.

But my SO looked it up for me and tells me that it's 24-28 mpg, not bad... And mine's a four cylinder, an SE, though some others are six. But I'm very happy with mine, since it has great pickup...:D

And I know exactly what you mean. I have never paid so much in my life for gas. It's over $3-a-gallon, here in NY, and it's probably going to get worse. And this is just for regular. I used to get super, but not anymore...:-(

The friend who sold it to me, a real car nut, decided to sell it because he wanted something larger. He's since regretted it.:-(

The reason that I wanted this car is because I rented one and really liked the feel of it. It's easy to handle, but is large and heavy enough, with a long enough front end, LOL, to make me feel safe.:-)

The only thing that I'd change about this car is that mine's a two-door, considered sportier, but I was looking for a four-door, since I usually travel with my two dogs and my Sara's an escape artist, would often make a run for it when I opened the door. But I managed to train her to understand that the only exit is on the passenger side, so we never had anymore problems. And you'd probably want a two-door, as well, transporting grandkids.:-)

And I'm glad that you saw my welcome. I shouldn't have been surprised to see another Rhiannon on DU. BTW, the reason that I also have a number after my name is because there is another Rhiannon, someone who registered in 2001, but never posted once!:grr:

But you're more than welcome! We're glad to have you with us!!!:toast:

Rhiannon:hi:

[rhiannon55]

38. thanks for the welcome, Rhiannon!

I like your name.... :bounce:

[shaniqua6392]

30. I prefer many of the Dodge and Chrysler's models

such as the Dodge Caliber, Chrysler 300, Jeep Liberty. We drive a Dodge Magnum right now and it is an awesome family car reminiscent of the good old station wagon. They seat five people comfortably with plenty of room in the back for groceries or luggage, etc. Dodge is also coming out with a small SUV called the Nitro in 2007. These are great cars for the money. The Magnum, for example, has three different models ranging from $24K to $29K. The $29K Magnum RT, which is what I drive, has the Hemi 5.7L motor in it. Although my entire family are Ford people, I just prefer the looks of the Chrysler lineup. They have something for everyone and for every budget. I would never buy a foreign car though. There is just no reason for it. If you can not find something to drive in the American car lineup, you just are not looking hard enough. I know there is a debate about buying foreign or American, but I come from a long line of auto workers here in Michigan and I want to do everything I can to keep them going. Foreign cars have a negative effect on American auto workers and that is the bottom line. Anyway, check out Dodge.com and Chrysler.com to see the cars. They both have terrific websites where you can compare all of the models. Hope this helps. Good luck in your search!

[T Wolf]

32. Domestic vs. import argument aside....

I suggest a Nissan Altima. We looked at the Camry and Accord but found that the Altima was just as good and significantly cheaper. It has the same features at a savings of $thousands. And having less a "rep" than the Camry and Accord, the Nissan dealers are more willing to deal.

Great ride. Good mileage. Great space inside and in the trunk.

Finally, judging by the numbers I have seen on the road over the last year, there are a lot of people who have come to the same conclusion.

[longship]

41. Prius.

Roomier than a Ford Taurus. Incredible gas mileage. Very reliable.

Screw the "made in Murica" arguments. If the USA doesn't make 'em, you just have to buy from those who do.

[skids]

42. And not the smallest perk...

...If things go totally belly up with either a Prius or Camry hybrid you'll at least have the option of going electric. It won't be cheap, but in that case, neither will be gas.

[Ready4Change]

57. Prius interior is surprisingly large.

Check it out to see if all your crew will fit in there. I've been surprised by the room in a friends. Holds 4 adults easy. Might be pricey, though.

Might also check out the latest Honda Civics. They've grown up, and the milage should be decent.

[GeorgeGist]

44. Volvo...

I've had one for 10 yrs, 180,000 miles and it's been paid for 6 yrs. I bought it when it had 10,000 and paid $10K less than sticker price. Gets 25mpg in the city. Everything still works except a cupholder.

[blueknight]

46. i have a nissan maxima,

which is a VERY NICE car.but, having said that,my son is driving a ford tarus with over 250,000 miles on it. and still runs like a champ!

[rhiannon55]

45. Thanks for all the suggestions!

You guys are great. I'm glad to be here at DU, and I'll let you know what I end up driving. :yourock:

[midnight armadillo]

52. Here's a small list

Want a wagon? Go for a Subaru Legacy or Outback, the AWD can be nice in bad weather althgouh it has some drawbacks (mileage, tires must match). Sedan? I'd suggest the new Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan (no radical tech in these, all engines etc are well-proven), used Honda Accords, or the Nissan Altima. If you want a BIG sedan, the Hyunday Azera or Buick Lucerne are worth looking at in your price range. If safety is your #1 concern, Saab, Volvo, and Mercedes have the best records on the market, but maintenance is pricey and cannot be neglected on luxury Euro-cars.

As for mileage, look at how far you drive. If your typical mileage is really high, go for more mpg's. If not, don't sweat it so much and keep comfort, safety, and convenience high on your list.

Me, I'd get a Saab 9-5 wagon for you, but as a dedicated Saabophile that's what I suggest to everyone ;)

[Oerdin]

53. I'm buying an Acura TSX.

It's essentially a European market Honda Accord which has been given the Acura treat with an upgraded interior and new sheet metal. It's made in the USA and it has a fuel efficent 205 HP 2.0L engine. Comes loaded for just under $30k.

[Bruce McAuley]

55. OK, we're talking a $10,000 car...

More or less for $300 a month for 3 to 4 years.
Buy a platform, not just a car brand. GM medium size cars are way cheaper than Honda or Toyota platforms in the same size. Chevys and Pontiacs are just about as reliable just not as nicely finished or refined. Read Consumers Reports for ideas.
Buy a platform that has lots of development on it, a car model at the end of its life rather than a brand new model. No surprises in an established model line.
Frequency of repair is worth noting on some models and engines which are very short lived, and they usually go for very low prices on the car lot.
Like some cars have bad electrics(some Mitsubishis and Saturns come to mind here), bad transmissions(rare) or bum engines(talk to a mechanic about cars to avoid). Look for "Lemon Law" vehicles from your state, and avoid them.
Do the research BEFORE you go to the dealership or the classified ads.
Check eBay for completed prices before you go looking for particular models that catch your eye.
That all said, if I had $10,000 to spend I'd likely buy a good used 10 or 15 year old Mercedes Benz 4 cylinder gas engined 4 door sedan like a 190-2.3 automatic that might have around 100,000 miles but be well kept and maintained. You'd be surprised at the nice models on eBay for reasonable prices if you don't mind going to pick them up.
Good luck!

Bruce

[LeftyMom]

56. Your grandbabies are going to be in car seats for some time

and car seats generally take up as much space as a largish adult in the back seat. Make sure you get a model wide enough across the back for both seats to install well and to leave room for an adult to sit in the third seat. This will generally require a full-sized car, even with very narrow carseats anything less would make the adult next to them uncomfortable on any drive longer than across town (if there's any possibility of a third grandbaby at some point, it might not be a bad idea to look at minivans now. Toyota, Honda and Nissan make the safest and nicest models for those. You can get a previous body style early 2000's model of the Honda Oddysey or Toyota Sienna for about what you're looking to spend.) Also, make sure you get a model with lap-shoulder belts in all three rear seating positions, in a few years they will both be in belt-positioning boosters that require this kind of seatbelt and having a lap-belted position would make safe transport of your whole family impossible.

As far as durability, value in a used model and big backseat go, you really can't beat the Ford Crown Vic/Mercury Grand whatever/Lincoln Towncar platform. My Dad got rear ended in his TownCar last year, the thing was smashed up so much that the trunk was in the back seat, all four tires were flattened, etc. Dad, who is a moran and wasn't wearing his seatbelt, walked away without a scratch, then went out and bought another just like it that same day. They can be found dirt cheap at auctions of gov't fleet vehicles, and if you sit and wait eventually there will be a detective or fire captain or something's car and that's the one to get, those are babied, unlike police cruisers. Yeah, they're uncool as can be, but crazy safe and they last forever with almost no maintainance (which is why if you go to the police auction most of the other buyers there will be picking them up for taxi service, they'll be running them nearly 24/7 for the next ten years or so and will barely be bothered to change the oil.)

The best link I know of for this kind of thing is http://www.suvsafety.info/ (don't let the name fool you, the site proprietor generally recomends sedans or minivans as a safer option for family transport.) Here's thier list of recomended late-model sedans, but I would encourage you to ask on thier forums as I got good advice there when I was looking for a car.

# 2005+ Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego (Must have available side curtain airgags)
# 2004+ Acura TL
# 2005+ Toyota Avalon
# 2004+ Audi A4
# 2006+ BMW 3-series
# 2006+ Volkswagen Passat
# 2006+ Volkswagen Jetta (ESC available)
# 2005+ Honda Accord & Hybrid (Must have available side curtain airbags, ESC available)
# 2004+ Chevrolet Malibu (Must available side curtain airbags)
# 2005+ Mitsubishi Galant
# 2006+ Honda Civic
# 2006+ Subaru Impreza
# 2006+ Saab 9-2X
# 2004+ Toyota Prius
# Promising models with crash tests to be completed this year include the Saab 9-3, Saab 9-5, Lexus IS, Lexus ES330
# Notable models that have not yet been tested by the IIHS for side impacts include the Volvo S80, Lincoln LS, Mercedes E-Class, Lincoln Town Car, Acura RL and Cadillac CTS.
# Honorable Mentions like the Toyota Corolla and Chevrolet Cobalt are safe choices in the compact car class when equipped with optional side curtain airbags

[IronLionZion]

60. IronLionZion's recommendations:

You will need a 4 door car with 4 cylinders. Stick shifts will be more fuel efficient. Always get a carfax report on any used car before buying. Go test drive the ones that look interesting.

small cars:
Civic (I have one now and love it)
Corolla,
Sentra
Mazda3
Focus
Golf or Jetta (you can get these in diesel too)
Cobalt
Echo
Yaris


Slightly larger but still get the 4 cylinder version:
Camry (I had one, and it's great for families)
Accord
Altima
Mazda6
Ford Fusion
Passat

[Dissenting_Prole]

61. i hate to be a prick, but...

someone needs to administer some ToughLove here.

After scanning through the posts, it occurred to me that no one even suggested that buying a car might not be a wise choice . This is especially surprising in an Environment and Energy forum. Can no one imagine any kind of alternatives?

You can't read the posts in an Environment and Energy forum on a regular basis without having a basic understanding of Global Oil Peak. Yet I'm willing to bet that most of the peeps have done nothing meaningful to prepare themselves or their families for that eventuality. It's as if the effects of oil depletion are some kind of bizarre horror film that fascinates them, but it's not reality.

Most of the people on DU want their friends and relatives to come home from Iraq, but it seems to me that very few of them are able to make the kind of sacrifice that would make that possible. Can people even make the link between automobile-culture and war?

Folks, recycling plastic water bottles, buying 20 million Priuses, and brewing more ethanol are not going to solve global warming, water depletion or our energy predicament. We're going to have to try a lot harder. And we're going to have to do it ourselves. Government and business are not your mommy and daddy.

Forget the car, buy a bike. And don't bullshit yourself that it's a choice you can't make. If your present living arrangement doesn't allow you to walk or bike to where you need to go, then you might want to reconsider where and how you live. You can whine about it, or you can save your ass. Those are your choices now, and your options are going to get fewer as we descend into a world with less energy.

Good luck!

[FILAM23]

62. Bike is not possible for everyone and it

wouldn't change if I moved. The company I work for
does work at at different hospitals in the area, anywhere
from 7 to 70 miles away. I am required to be at the 2 closest
ones within 30 minutes for emergency's, no car is simply not an
option. So don't be so judgmental about other people, or would
you prefer that peoples lives are put in jeopardy because it
takes me/my co-workers 45 minutes to get to the hospital instead
of the 20 minutes it takes now

[Dissenting_Prole]

63. I'm not being judgmental.

I couldn't care less about your particular personal cicumstances. I'm just telling it like it is.

Forget the car, buy a bike. And don't bullshit yourself that it's a choice you can't make. If your present living arrangement doesn't allow you to walk or bike to where you need to go, then you might want to reconsider where and how you live. You can whine about it, or you can save your ass. Those are your choices now, and your options are going to get fewer as we descend into a world with less energy.

You do whatever you have to do. But good luck when gas is six bucks a gallon, or not available at all on certain days. With a new car with an empty gas tank, will you be of any use to anyone then? Just think about that for awhile. If you can't do your day-to-day business without a car, then you might want to re-think your living arrangement. Those who do will prosper. Those who don't will be screwed.

The point of my original post was that, of 60 replies, in an Energy & Enviroment forum, not one person mentioned any other alternative besides using a car. No one seems to recognize that the era of affordable motoring is over. This is why North Americans will not survive an oilcrash. We are unable to imagine any kind of lifestyle other than the one we have been living for the past 60 years. It's going to be business-as-usual until we hit the wall head first.

[Oerdin]

64. Christ!

The man just explained why a bike wasn't an option and then you just repeat your tired line to "forget the car, buy a bike"? It's like talking to a brick wall. No wonder we turn off so many voters. Everyone wants to do something but we need practical solutions and everyone needs are slightly different. We can't be holier then thou or demand one size fits all policies or else we will always be the minority party.

He's moving in the right direction so stop moaning that he hasn't become Mother Thresa. Have a beer, go out more often, meet a girl. You will be happier.