“Mexican Gangs With American Guns: 'A Threat To U.S. National Security'” Brady lies ad nauseam

[jody]

Mexican Gangs With American Guns: "A Threat To U.S. National Security", Paul Helmke, President, Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence (Huffington Post)

According to an analysis by the Pentagon, the violence is even beginning to jeopardize the stability of Mexico - a nation of almost 110 million people on our southern border.

Last November the Pentagon's Joint Forces Command concluded that Mexico was at risk of a "rapid and sudden collapse" due in part to "sustained assault and pressure by criminal gangs." The Pentagon further concluded that "{a}ny descent by Mexico into chaos would demand an American response based on the serious implications for homeland security alone."

U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder calls it nothing less than "a threat to U.S. national security."

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Specifically, what Congress and President Obama can do is show some leadership, confront the gun lobby, and put America's national security first.

> The President and Congressional leaders should require Brady criminal background checks for every gun sale in this country, including at gun shows.

> They should restrict access to military-style assault weapons such as AK-47s that can fire 30 body armor-piercing rounds in 6 seconds, as well as .50-caliber sniper rifles that can shoot through armored vehicles and shoot down helicopters.

> Congress and the President should also crack down on the small percentage of corrupt licensed gun dealers who account for almost 60% of crime guns in this country.

In 1939 a wannabe world dictator manufactured an excuse to invade a neighbor.

The current AWB crisis and War on Drugs is an instance of manufacturing an excuse to invade not only a neighbor but our own houses in the U.S.

As happened in the last administration, the Commander in Chief expected an event would occur that would allow him to invade Iraq as payback for his father’s humiliation.

That thirst for vengeance was so powerful that if an event did not occur, one would be fabricated and we were bombarded with propaganda that Iraq had WMD that threatened the security of the U.S.

Under the new Commander in Chief, the thirst for vengeance to ban all semiautomatic firearms has led to a propaganda campaign that unless we immediately renew the Assault Weapons Ban, the government of Mexico will topple and our homeland security is threatened.

Bush is known for his immoral war to remove Weapons of Mass Destruction and unless Obama is careful, he could be known for an immoral war to remove Assault Weapons.

[spin]

1. The sad part is that they expect people to believe that...

Mexican cartels actually do get 90% of their weapons from the states.

The really sad part is that most people are so stupid that they actually do believe it.

[villager]

2. So the U.S. should keep exporting weapons to Mexico just because

...prohibition of some drugs is ridiculous and short sighted?

And before you draw the inevitable analogy -- yes, making marijuana illegal is stupid. There may be some community interest in doing so to meth, however.

Same with weapons: Not all are created equal. The free flow of every single weapon and its easy attainment is *not* always in the community's interest.

In spite of whatever the NRA's lies might tell you.

[Traveling_Home]

3. They don't need to lie to try and jusutify more gun control nt

[jeepnstein]

6. How many weapons...

seized by Mexican authorities are actually traced back to the U.S? Has Mexico ever released serial numbers or any kind of inventory? How many traces have they requested in the last two or three years?

I have a hard time believing a multi-billion dollar enterprise that owns some of the richest smuggling routes in the world has to pay retail for arms in the United States.

You can't buy full-auto easily and cheaply in the States.

The problem in Mexico is being caused by internal corruption and an insatiable American appetite for street drugs. Stripping lawful citizens of their Constitutional Rights won't do a thing to fix that.

[SsevenN]

8. What's your point?

Are you saying that our self-loading rifles are responsible for making Mexico less safe?

Because that is patently false. I'm pretty sure those RPG's, Fragmentation grenades and TRUE automatic rifles are much more dangerous to Mexico's well being.

Are you saying that self loading rifles are making OUR country less safe?

Again, patently false. The majority of gun crime is committed with handguns, specifically cheap, throw away old stolen guns.

How many times must we prove that the elapsed AWB had absolutely no effect on crime?

Furthermore, why is restricting OUR rights a sound strategy for stopping the death and destruction that is tearing Mexico apart?

[villager]

10. Here's my point:

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/editorials/articles/2009/03/04/a_lethal_export_to_mexico/


And here, from an Arizona newspaper:

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/ss/related/111631

[ManiacJoe]

18. It's sad when the fact checkers are the first to be fired.

[villager]

19. So -- what other lines does the NRA feed you, in order to reply to articles

...you clearly haven't read, and whose specifics you can't name?

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Euromutt]

20. Why your point is invalid

The Globe article repeats what has become known as the "Mexican canard," namely that the ATF has stated that 90% of the guns used by the Mexican cartels were bought or stolen from the US. A more careful examination of Assistant Director Hoover's testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee reveals that that percentage is of guns that a) the Mexican government asked the ATF to trace, and b) that the ATF was able to trace. In fact, of the guns that the Mexican government asked the ATF to trace in FY 2007, the ATF was able to trace fewer than 24% to US sources. Given that the ATF's remit is to keep tabs on guns manufactured in, or imported into, the US, it's not exactly surprising that the bulk of guns the ATF was able to trace came through the American system, but for every gun the ATF was able to trace, there were three than it could not trace, most likely because the guns never passed through the US. In addition, we don't know how many guns the Mexican government took off cartel members but did not ask the ATF to trace. Especially when it comes to automatic weapons, grenades and other items regulated under the National Firearms Act of 1934, it's much more likely that the cartels acquired these off corrupt Mexican state police armorers than from the US private sector. And it follows that the Mexican government wouldn't ask the ATF to trace such weapons, since they should be able to trace those weapons themselves.

[spin]

22. I understand that many Mexican weapons did not have serial numbers...

so it was obvious that they were not made in the U.S.

Why would the cartels pay top dollar for semi-auto crippled assault rifles when they could buy a ship load of full auto weapons from China?

The weapons that do flow from the U.S. to Mexico are probably headed to the citizens who are not members of the cartels. If I lived in the parts of Mexico where the gang violence is occurring, I would want a weapon for protection of my family.

The Mexican government has STRICT gun control laws and fears that if its' citizens gain enough fire power, it may face a revolution. Therefore it wants to prevent weapons crossing south across the border.

[rl6214]

4. Lies and misdirections

"They should restrict access to military-style assault weapons such as AK-47s that can fire 30 body armor-piercing rounds in 6 seconds"

No ak style weapon that can be bought in the US is capable of firing 30 rounds in 6 seconds. That is a fully automatic weapon which cannot be bought in any gun shop or at any gun show in the US. I also love the way they throw that "body armor-piercing rounds" in there as well. Any modern hunting rifle can pierce body armor.

[slackmaster]

5. They've been telling the same fairy tale since the early '90s

It never ends.

[SsevenN]

7. What the hell are the Brady Bunch smoking and where can I get some?

So, with the collapse of Mexico, comes a threat against our entire country's national security.

And the solution to that threat is.....Removing the most effective civilian defensive arms? :crazy: :wtf:


Ya gotta love it when Politicians don't trust the very people that elected them.

[yay]

9. Pretty sure

The crystals on their weed isn't THC.

[dpbrown]

11. More gun control now!

The government should know where every single gun is in the United States, and it should levy incredible fines and prison time for people who trade illegally at gun shows, who lose their guns, or who put guns into international commerce.

I'm tired of Democrats coddling up to gun hoarders.

[DonP]

12. ... and books too dammit!

There are some books that no one needs to read and we need to put a stop to people being exposed to these ideas right now.

I want the government to track everybody's library cards so they can know who is reading these dangerous ideas.

Oh wait, didn't someone else try that a few years back? Is that you Dick Cheney?

Did you feel the same way when Bush wanted to know what everyone was reading and who they were talking to?

I have no problem prosecuting international arms dealers. Just realize that the USA is one of the larger ones in the business, along with Russia and China.

I'm betting you have never been to a gun show in your life and have no damned idea what you're talking about. Gun shows require exactly the same NICS background checks as buying in a gun store. They don't sell grenades or RPGs there either. You can't buy a machine gun under the table no matter what they say in the papers.

So, based on your gun control ideas, if your uncle's 12 Ga. pheasant gun is stolen and used in a robbery he should go to prison for 10 years. Great idea. How about if they steal your car at the mall and kill someone drunk driving with it, are you ready to do 20 years for their crime?

Take your fascist gun registration/confiscation scheme somewhere else.

[dpbrown]

23. More gun control now!

No other common law country or bastard child country of England suffers under an anachronistic "amendment" like the Second Amendment.

We are unsafe because we don't adequately regulate guns.

[jody]

29. Who will protect citizens? SCOTUS says it's not government's job. n/t

[rl6214]

17. Don't you pay attention

or can't you comprehend. These fully automatic weapons ARE NOT coming from gun shows in the US. They aren't coming from gun dealers in the US. They are military weapons.

[dpbrown]

24. People don't need any guns more powerful than that needed to reasonably hunt or target shoot

The government's overwhelming firepower now makes the private ownership of anything less than a battleship useless for "revolution" anyway.

[rl6214]

26. Were the insurgents in Iraq

able to effectively disrupt the US efforts with something less than a battleship?

And as far as target shooting or hunting, not all targets or game is at 25yards, you need something that will shoot out at a distance.

[jody]

28. Who will protect citizens? SCOTUS says it's not government's job. n/t

[Euromutt]

21. You can be "tired" all you like...

Fact is, gun control is an election loser, at least as much today as it turned out to be in 1994. You don't have to like it, but if you refuse to accept it, be prepared to see the Dems reduced to a minority in Congress again. There are enough "single issue" voters out there to tip the balance.

Question: did you advocate revolt after the SCOTUS's ruling in Gore v. Bush? If so, with what? Would you trust a Republican government that knew which voters were inclined to vote Democrat and owned guns? Speaking for myself, I acquired a full range of individual weapons mostly as a result of the eliminationist rhetoric put out by Limbaugh, O'Reilly, et al. Oh, and guess what? There already are hefty penalties on people who trade gun illegally at gun shows.

[dpbrown]

25. It doesn't matter if it's an "election loser" - inadequate gun regulation makes us all less safe

The laws should be tightly enforced, records should be kept and shared, and weapons more powerful than those reasonably needed to hunt and target shoot should have restricted ownership. Conceal and carry laws should be abolished.

[jody]

27. Who will protect citizens? SCOTUS says it's not government's job. n/t

[eridani]

13. If you can regulate the 1st amendment with libel and slander laws--

--why should the 2nd be exempt?

[Xela]

14. But it's not exempt at all. There are already enough regulations.

Let's enforce the laws we already have on the books.

Xela

[jody]

15. "regulate the 1st amendment" is one thing, do you support prohibiting all rights protected by 1st?

What about just prohibiting all internet communication?

A little infringement like that surely would not offend people, would it?

[slackmaster]

16. It's not, nobody is saying it's exempt, and guns are regulated

In all kinds of ways.