"Easy access to guns"- The new gun grabbers talking point?

[wartrace]

What does it mean? In what way is it easier now to access guns than it was in 1965?

[underpants]

1. Are you familiar with how fear made normal Americans trash everything in their history?

same thing here

from a marketing stand point the gun makers and sellers are really doing a great job in bad economic times

[rfranklin]

2. Using the phrase "gun grabbers' labels you as a wingnut...

When was a gun taken from a law-abiding citizen? Perhaps you can find a more accurate way to express your views.

[wartrace]

4. Wingnut labels you as a gungrabber.

Must I list the various gun bans placed on law abiding citizens? Ask the citizens of New York city if they have not had to give up their legal firearms......

[Sebastian Doyle]

6. GODDAMN IT, YOU CAIN'T INTIRFEAR WITH THE SEKOND AMENDMINT RITES!11!!!!1

ANY PERSON, NO MATTER HOW CRIMINAL OR HOW INSANE HAS THE RITE TO GO TO A GUN SHOW AND BYE AS MANY GODDAMN ASSAULT RIFLES, ROCKET LAUNCHERS, OR WHATEVER THE HELL HE WANTS WITHOUT A BACKGROUND CHECK BECAUZE THAT'S WHAT GLENN BECK TOLD ME THE SEKOND COMMANDMENT SAYZ !!1!!!1!!!!!11

[MrPerson]

8. I NEED MY GUN TO SECURE THE BRODERS.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

11. What are the Broders?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

9. You are on the wrong site. Even the NRA supports restrictions on criminals and the mentally ill.

[Sebastian Doyle]

14. Then why are they consistently opposed to closing the gun show loophole

Which is where most psychos and criminals buy their guns, because they wouldn't pass a background check elsewhere.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

19. Doesn't make much sense to regulate private sales only at gun shows.

How would that stop someone from approaching a seller and saying hey I'll buy that gun but my money is in my car let's go to the parking lot? Unless you want to regulate all private sales. Many pro-gun people here have called for the opening of the NICS to the public so private sellers could ensure they are selling firearms to people legally allowed to own them. I would like to see some research proving that most criminals buy their guns at gun shows that are usually crawling with uniformed and plainclothes cops.

David

[rl6214]

25. THERE IS NO GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE

Every gun I have ever purchased at a gun show has required the seller to do a background check on me. Show me the gun show loophole.

[Taitertots]

29. Agreed

I don't know that specifics, but to my knowledge anyone with a FFL can't make private transfers.

[AtheistCrusader]

39. Because you don't know what you're talking about.

Let me know if you see a criminal walk into a gun show and buy a gun from a dealer without a background check. Because if they do, a felony has been committed.

If they buy from a private individual who is not a dealer, psst... not to alarm you, but that happens EVERY DAY all across the country, with no connection to a gun show, when people sell 'privately' from one individual to another, in the newspaper, to a friend, to a co-worker, to a family member, at a garage sale, estate sale, etc, etc. Happens every day. Oh god the huge manatee.

[Statistical]

42. How about you do your own thinking and not believe everything the antis tell you

Dept of Justice

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf

Source of firearm used by felon
Retail 8%
Pawnshop 4%
Flea Market 1%
Gun Show 1%
Freinds/Family 40%
Street/illegal 40%

numbers rounded by me for ease of reading.

Remember this includes first time felons who were not a felon prior to conviction and thus COULD LEGALLY purchase firearms.
Even still gunshows account for <1% of all firearms used in crime.

Any more Brady talking points you need knocked down?

[Furyataurus]

48. Actually, statistical

I'm sure the brady dolts/vpc etc consider ANYTIME a gun is sold to be a "gun show" :eyeroll:

[Furyataurus]

47. Have you EVER been to a gunshow?????

Next time dress like a thug/gang banger and see if a PRIVATE seller will sell to you.

[slackmaster]

52. Most criminals acquire guns through straw purchases, not at gun shows

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/downloads/pdf/inside-straw-purchases.pdf

[wartrace]

15. Thank you for using part of your valuable time to respond.

I found your response somewhat lacking in substance.

[rl6214]

24. WOW

Do you know how intellegent you sound in this post.

I mean really, start on decaf, prozac, something.

[benEzra]

34. Do you actually think that reflects current U.S. law?

You do know that assault rifles and rocket launchers are as tightly controlled as howitzers, and buying any gun from a gun show dealer requires the same Federal background check as at a gun store, yes?

[TheWraith]

49. Do you even have any knowledge of reality?

For starters, rocket launchers and assault rifles are governed under the National Firearms Act of 1934, and as such are phenomenally expensive.

Second, dealers operating at gun shows have to perform background checks the same as if they were selling out of their stores. The "gun show loophole" is a myth.

[Mojorabbit]

23. New Orleans after Katrina. nt

[Sebastian Doyle]

30. And yet the gun nuts continue to buy the "Libruls wanna grab your guns!!!1!!" horseshit from the NRA

When it was only Blackwater, under the command of the Bush Crime Family, that actually ever did so.

[benEzra]

35. Actually, the New Orleans gun confiscations caught on camera were DEA, California Highway Patrol,

and a few rogue Oklahoma National Guard units.

BTW, "liberals" have not by and large been particularly interested in new gun bans, although there are some exceptions. The ban-popular-guns fervor within the party in the '90s was driven almost entirely by the Third Way types at the DLC, who hoped to use the "assault weapon" fraud and other bans as a way to look "tough on crime" to right-leaning law-and-order types.

[Mojorabbit]

44. To be honest

I think both party's if they thought they could get away with it would disarm the public in a heartbeat.

[X_Digger]

38. Ask the folks in CA who registered their 'assault weapons'

Then were told later that they had to turn them in, sell them, or transfer them out of state..

[spin]

54. How about the Katrina gun confiscation and California...

Controversy arose over a September 8 city-wide order by New Orleans Police Superintendent Eddie Compass to local police, National Guard troops, and US Marshals to confiscate all civilian-held firearms. "No one will be able to be armed," Compass said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns." Seizures were carried out without warrant, and in some cases with excessive force; one instance captured on film involved 58 year old New Orleans resident Patricia Konie. Konie stayed behind, in her well provisioned home, and had an old revolver for protection. A group of police entered the house, and when she refused to surrender her revolver, she was tackled and it was removed by force. Konie's shoulder was fractured, and she was taken into police custody for failing to surrender her firearm.<70><71> Even National Guard troops, armed with assault rifles, were used for house to house searches, seizing firearms and attempting to get those remaining in the city to leave.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_re...

For a link on the California gun confiscation visit:
http://www.nrawinningteam.com/confiscation/calockyer.html#letters

[MrPerson]

3. Its always been easy. Nothing has changed.

[wartrace]

5. In 1965 I could mail order guns with no paperwork.

Please direct me to where I can do that now.

[MrPerson]

7. That's easier. But it is still easy.

[walkaway]

12. I sure in some third world country. You might want to move there!

I don't want to grab your gun. Keep it.

I want everyone to make the children and friends of extremists and gun lovers like you feel like outcasts.

We don't need to take your guns. We need to mock you in movies, trash your redneck image and turn you into something to be avoided until you and your kind vanish like the dinosaurs.

[rrneck]

22. Good luck with that.

Recent Supreme Court decisions and the growth of CCW legislation seem to indicate that the American public is in the process of codifying the ownership of guns in our culture.

[Mojorabbit]

26. You know in polls here on this site

around half are gun owners.

[wartrace]

27. Ah, a propaganda war!

Good luck scooter, mocking gun owners in movies? Seems like Hollywood glorifies gun violence rather than mocking it. When your movie premiers you be sure to let us know, m-kay? I wish you luck in your future endeavors however fruitless they may be.

[DrCory]

41. You Are Advocating...

The manufacture and propagation of a bigoted stereotype?

"trash your redneck image..."

My, how liberal of you :eyes:

[Iktomiwicasa]

43. You think

that it's only white "rednecks" who own guns? Hahahahaha! I don't have numbers, but I would guess that American native folks are among, if not the most, heavily armed ethnic group in the U.S. Here on my home rez, and on reservations throughout Indian country, most homes come with firearms. We had to learn our lesson the hard way as to what happens when the government disarms a population.

[dashrif]

50. You

Got that right

There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

Will Rodgers,

[SteveM]

51. What? "Love it or leave it" from a liberal? Reading Rove's prompter?...

You have with your comments proved up what many folks have been saying about liberals and progressives for some time: their capacity for prejudice, hatred, bigotry and mean-spiritedness is just as great as any other's. Actually, this is what you expect from culture warriors.

But since you like this war (and seem to get off fighting it), please be informed that you are on the losing side.

[geckosfeet]

13. Well, the good old days. Thank goodness that is over.

[dflprincess]

17. Try a gun show (eom)

[wartrace]

21. Try going to one and buying a gun first before you throw that out there.

Yes, you can buy a few guns from private individuals at a gun show. The majority of sales are made by licensed gun dealers who have to follow the same procedure they do at their gun stores.

Oh, I might add gun shows are not a new thing & they do not provide "easy access" to guns any more than they did thirty years ago.

[slackmaster]

45. The procedures, regulations, laws, etc. are no different at a gun show than anywhere else

Here in California, where private-party transfers of used firearms are regulated, there is a background check and 10-day wait on every transfer just as there is in a sporting goods store.

[safeinOhio]

32. And in 1962 you could mail order LSD

Some idiot ex marine used a mail order rifle to kill a Great President. That lead to a thoughtful law.

Here again is the real deal on the NRA bull crap that goes unchallenged by crazy wingnuts.


THE TRUTH:
Barack Obama has stated unequivocally that law-abiding Americans have the right to purchase, own, transport, and use guns responsibly, including for the purpose of protecting their families. So this line of attack is particularly scurrilous, as it uses terrifying imagery and outright lies to attack Obama.

The TV ad dubiously cites a vote Obama took in the Illinois State Senate in 2004, in which he voted against a measure that created a loophole for people caught in violation of local gun registration laws—a bill that had nothing to do with whether or not a person was legally justified in using a firearm to protect their home or family. Obama voted to maintain a small provision of state law that ensured that those who fail to properly register dangerous weapons face the usual legal penalty. It is a piece of state legislative minutia that is almost too obscure and inconsequential to mention, let alone distort.

But the truth is rarely a hindrance to desperate groups dealing in smears and scare tactics.
The NRA’s lies are transparent, so much so that North Carolina’s Citizen-Times gave the ads an “F” for twisting Obama’s position “almost out of whole cloth,” and many other news outlets have wholeheartedly condemned the ad campaign as well.

Please help make sure that everyone you know understands the truth about Barack Obama’s positions, and the lies they’re being sold by the NRA.

Credits:
FactCheck.org: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/nra_targets_oba...

[quiller4]

18. Things have changed...

I remember when you could walk into any sporting goods store, pay for a pistol and leave with that pistol. That is no longer the case. You must complete a lengthy form and submit to a records check that is supposed to be "instant" but often isn't. Now I'm not objecting to a records check. I actually think that is sound policy but it does represent a change.

Previously only felony convictions disqualified an individual and even convicted felons who had served their term and paid all fines could apply for restoration of second amendment rights.

Now even a misdemeanor conviction for domestic violence is disqualifying and there is no longer a provision for restoration of rights.

Not that long ago my husband could have made a gift of a rifle and shipped it to one of his nephews. Now he has to pay a local firearms dealer (WA) to ship to another dealer where his nephew lives (HI). It makes no difference that the nephew is a 29 year old veteran of two tours of duty in Afghanistan.

I am not arguing for or against these changes--only pointing out that we've come a long way from the days when anyone could mail order or purchase in person.

[billyoc]

10. It doesn't matter, they have no ally in the Democratic party anymore.

[wartrace]

16. No clear explanation of what this "easy access" is after 15 posts?n/t

[janx]

20. Some context might be helpful.

;-)

Where did the term originate? How was it used?

[Taitertots]

28. Access to guns has been dramatically restricted since 1960

In 1960 I (if I was alive) could with very little difficulty buy a new in the box fully automatic AK-47, M-16, or M-14.
I could walk in with cash and leave with a normal rifle or pistol with no questions asked.

[yay]

55. No you coulden't

You still needed to get the $200 tax stamp on you're brand new AK, which just like today still took a couple months for a first timer.

[AlinPA]

31. Access is not easy for people who follow the laws. For those that don't follow laws

there are a lot of ways to get them illegally and there are a lot guns to be had.

[MercutioATC]

36. So more laws restricting firearms will help how??

[AlinPA]

40. Where did I say they would help?

[dashrif]

33. Easy access to guns

It's me I am the talking point a non felon that can clear a ncis check in 30 sec and can walk out with whatever I have money for ooooooh scary

[benEzra]

37. Back in 1965, you could order this through the mail...

and none other than John F. Kennedy owned one of the first ones in the early '60s (they hit the U.S. civilian market in 1961 or 1962, I believe). Prior to 1961, you could buy an M1 carbine instead. AFAIK, the above ad is circa 1965. The "mousegun" has since become the most popular civilian rifle in America.

Trivia fact of the day:

The first 30-round civilian rifle was the Evans rifle of 1873.



That model was made 1873-1879, and capacity 28 to 34 rounds, depending on model. Caliber was .44 Evans, similar to .44-40. The magazine was helical, like a modern Calico.

[one-eyed fat man]

53. back in 1965.......

I came back from southeast Asia with one of these



on a DD Form 603-1. After arriving in-country, an ATF Form 4, a signature from my local sheriff, fingerprints, and paying the $200 tax was all it took to comply with the NFA. After 1968, changes in the law made that impossible. However, certain captured, non-US, rifles and pistols could still be imported as War Trophies up through the end of the Viet Nam.

DD Form 603-1 Jul 65

Since then, soldiers can no longer bring back firearms, functional or not. In fact, after 1995, even many knives and bayonets cannot be brought back as a war trophy.

[slackmaster]

46. "Access" to things is binary - Either you have it, or you don't

Regardless of how many hurdles you have to jump over to get something, either you CAN get it or you CAN'T.

[aikoaiko]

56. It seems to many "easy access" = guns that haven't been banned.

:shrug: