Quiet Neighborhood Scene Of Grusome Shooting: Three Found Shot In Westford Home

[depakid]

A normally quiet Westford neighborhood turned into a gruesome crime scene Monday night when two people were found shot to death inside a home and a third person was critically wounded. The wounded woman was flown to the University of Massachusetts Medical Center with life-threatening injuries after she was shot in the quiet town of 22,000 west of Boston.

Police were at the scene at 7 Makepeace Road until late into the night investigating after receiving a 911 call about 8:30 p.m. When they arrived they found two people dead and one injured. http://www.dailycomet.com/article/20100202/APN/1002020539">Police say the shootings resulted from a family fight.

Names of the victims were not immediately released but police said all three victims were related and lived in the house.

It was the second deadly domestic violence incident in recent weeks. Fred LeDuc, 45, was arraigned in his hospital bed and charged with the murder of his wife Karen on Jan. 9 in what police called a botched murder-suicide.

More: http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/22408437/detail.html

[T Wolf]

1. Thank god they were armed and able to repel the invaders. Oops, sorry. Thought this was the usual

"guns in the home save family from illegal alien burglar" story that the gun nuts love to post.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

27. That's why there should be more than 1 gun in the home.

Unusual to see you advocating that position.

[Glassunion]

2. I see your 3, but I have 4109.

4109=average DGUs per day.

Do you have a point, or are you just showing off your copy and paste skills?

[depakid]

3. Two more families who would likely still be alive if they didn't have guns in their homes

[Glassunion]

4. So what do you propose we do about it?

While still insuring the safety of everyone?

[slackmaster]

8. What a bunch of horseshit

:argh:

[michreject]

14. Not even true

Two families would be alive if they had access to a gun to defend them self.

[rd_kent]

21. and 4109 people that may have been dead if the didn't have guns in their homes.

[Euromutt]

34. Three people = two families?

It's at moments like this that I have to honestly wonder whether you even believe the argument you're trying to make. Apparently, one guy murdering his wife isn't bad enough for you, because why else would feel the need to inflate it into a complete familicide?

[sharesunited]

5. Please reduce your DGUs by the percentage of those in which guns started the trouble.

[Glassunion]

6. Ok, and the new number is 4109.

[sharesunited]

7. Source please. Unless the orafice is too personal.

[Glassunion]

9. Look it up yourself. I have posted it in the past here.

Do your own homework.

[sharesunited]

10. OK, the NRA website then? I'll check it out.

Because that means among 50 states there are 82 non-gun attacks repelled by guns per state per day.

Does that seem plausible to you?

[Glassunion]

11. No not the NRA. It was US government repot.

[sharesunited]

12. I understand the problem, now. Self-reporting error.

People reporting a DGU because they picked up a gun when they thought something bad was going to happen.

It is the same issue of subjectivity encountered in criminal trials when self defense is claimed.

With an important difference.

For purposes of a survey, there is no independent finder of fact to scrutinize what really went on.

[rrneck]

24. Very good!

"Please reduce your DGUs by the percentage of those in which guns started the trouble."

You're getting better, it only took you three posts to condradict yourself.

[sharesunited]

31. The other problem might be that the survey doesn't ask what the nature of the threat was.

Lacking that data would be a further impediment to reducing the inflated DGU count.

It puts the whole DGU claim of justifying guns in society into serious doubt.

[rrneck]

32. Heh.

"there is no independent finder of fact to scrutinize what really went on."

Court records based on investigations conducted by professional crime scene investigators, prosecutors and defense attorneys. All sworn statements. All based on FACTS obtained from PHYSICAL EVIDENCE and SWORN STATEMENTS OF EYE WITNESSES.

Have you found a solution to the problem of an individual assaulted by an unarmed assailant yet? Those are real too. The deaths and injuries suffered by people who are unable to defend themselves are investigated and documented by finders of facts.

Do you have anything that might be confused for an applicable plan in the real world governed by facts for us to evaluate?

Or will you just flee to the roundhouse again?

[sharesunited]

37. I think we're just debating whether widespread access to guns for those on whose behalf you advocate

is worth the wrongful deaths caused by such widespread access.

When you stand for widespread access, you must always scramble to reassure a horrified public when the horror occurs.

You must always launch into the apologetics of gun worship, and that is as it should be.

It is a continual public relations lullaby.

Such A Tragedy, Now Carry On Dying Y'all.

[rrneck]

38. An argument

based on Utilitarianism flies in the face of what the Bill of Rights is all about. Try again.

What solution do you offer for an unarmed individual who is assaulted by another armed with a knife, club, fists or feet?

edited for clarity

[sharesunited]

40. What solution is offered by the leaders in the eradication effort, the UK and Australia?

My solution is, if you want a gun, there are plenty of them out there.

We've just stopped allowing the sale of new ones.

They're collectibles now.

[rrneck]

41. The post to which you responded

is reproduced here for your convenience:

An argument based on Utilitarianism flies in the face of what the Bill of Rights is all about. Try again.

What solution do you offer for an unarmed individual who is assaulted by another armed with a knife, club, fists or feet?

There is no mention of a firearm. What is your solution?

[sharesunited]

42. An unarmed victim? A solution to halt the attack?

Not yet disabled from the attack?

Unable to flee the attack?

Unable to yell for help, or no one nearby willing to intervene?

Begging and pleading to stop being of no avail?

Likewise pitiful threats of future revenge?

A merciful God turns a blind eye?

I might be of more help backing me into a corner if I knew what exactly I was supposed to concede.

[rrneck]

43. Aye, there's the rub.

Do you have a solution, yes or no?

[sharesunited]

45. Nor do I have a solution for the armed victim who just wasn't fast or alert enough.

[rrneck]

46. ! - This post has been extensively edited.

You just can't do it can you? You can't summon up the guts to offer a simple honest answer.

Do you or do you not have a solution for an unarmed individual who is assaulted by another individual armed with a knife, club, fists or feet?

Yes. Or. No.

--------------------------------------------------------

On second thought, there is no need for me to be a horse's ass about it. I think we can both agree that neither one of us has a solution to the problem of defending oneself against an attacker that does not have a firearm.

Do you think we can both agree about that?

I have edited this post in this manner so the record of my lack of common courtesy will remain.

I apologize for the overbearing manner that I exhibited at the top of the post.

[rrneck]

47. In case you didn't catch it.

I have exensively edited my reply to this post.

[Katya Mullethov]

64. Here's an idea

Braid the most heinous recidivists and murderers on the wheel, or simply hang them . If that proves a bit too barbaric for public tastes , then quit setting them loose on us . The only alternative will be endless tales of violent ends from all sides , and more cries for "someone else" to " do something, anything" .

[Euromutt]

33. Do you mean this one?

Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms by Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

It's a government-sponsored report, though the authors were not government employees.

[Glassunion]

35. Yep that's one of them.

Thanks...

Hard to look up bookmarks and thread history on an iPhone.

[eqfan592]

16. Please produce your evidence....

..that crimes committed with guns would automatically NOT have been committed had the criminal not had a firearm. Don't worry, we'll wait....

[SteveM]

18. Ah, the Magic Gun theory: guns have personalities...

Yet, mine snoozes away in its box. Doesn't go out on Saturday nights, can't get a date, doesn't even show up in bars to "start trouble."

Prohibition + religious zealotry = things with magical powers.

[rrneck]

25. Heh. Don't get around much any more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJLMvH92KjQ

[rrneck]

23. Please

describe exactly how guns start the trouble. And while you are at it, please explain how people are supposed to defend themselves against people who somehow manage to escape the psycological effects of guns and assault people with knives, clubs, fists and feet.

[proteus_lives]

29. Proving once again why grabbers are such a fringe group.

Guns don't start trouble. They're inanimate tools.

People start trouble.

Most grown-ups realize this.

[oneshooter]

13. And in the wonderfull world of OZ

Man shot at Salisbury Downs

A MAN was shot by three men in the northern suburbs early today in what may be a bikie-related crime.
It is understood three men fired at the man, 32, with at least two shotguns, outside a house on Antrim St, Salisbury Downs, about 7.30 am as he stood next to his car.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/man-shot-at-salisbury-downs/story-e6frea6u-1225825773581

All is well and peasefull in the Land of OZ. Nothing to look at, just keep your blinders on.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[depakid]

15. LOL- Bikies vs. families whose husbands brought guns into their homes and killed their families

Sad- and the preventable carnage continues. Tick toc till the next family murder, mass shooting, workplace gun violence, cop killing or tragic accident brought to you by firearms proliferation.

[eqfan592]

17. Actaully, all of that is brought to you by crime and carelessness.

Not by guns proliferation. The guns didn't just jump up and start doing things all on their own. But even if the guns WERE doing all the work on your own, then you left out all the defensive gun uses. You know, those things that outnumber everything else you have listed on there combined? But of course, we have no care for THOSE people! They are to be sacrificed at the alter of having a more "civilized" society, right?

[rrneck]

26. One true Scotsman... nt

[Katya Mullethov]

28. They just killed 16 in a working class neighborhood in C. Juarez

All over the papers wasnt it ? Not .

"""dead included at least eight teenagers, the youngest a 13-year-old girl. Mayor Jose Reyes Ferriz said police were pursuing all lines of investigation. But he said none of the victims of the attack Saturday night had criminal records, and the teenagers were 'good kids, students, athletes... 'There is no logical explanation, a concrete reason for this event. This is something that worries us, gratuitous or random criminal acts,' Reyes """"

We'll have to wait and see about that .The fear is that La Violencia will continue to become much less "businesslike" as they start to carry out terroristic attacks on the populace at random .

[Glassunion]

19. If you are not too busy killing Indians...

How are the Indian / Australian relations going? Has India lifted the travel warnings against Australia yet?

Amazing how such a forward thinking and civilized nation has been black-listed as being dangerous, and that visiters of certain races should travel there with caution.

On the up side, your country has managed not to stab, beat or burn an Indian to death in a few days.

At least you know what your bad guys look like... Right?

[Glassunion]

22. Crickets...

Maybe he ran away because one of the last killings occured in his neck of the woods.

While we are on the suject of the advanced (almost gun free) country of Australia...
http://www.news.com.au/national/baby-killed-by-dad-led-a-miserable-life/story-e6frfkvr-1225826048889
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g8lmaxDlw4842fgXMuUL8Qo97STA (mass murder)
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Jagraon-youth-killed-in-Australia-cremated/565670
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,26667566-5003402,00.html
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/video-of-indian-stab-victim/story-e6frf7kx-1225822821088
http://story.malaysiasun.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/b8de8e630faf3631/id/595713/cs/1/
http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/news/opinion/3259443/Editorial-Racism-a-real-problem-in-Australia

I thought disarming law abiding citizens was supposed to prevent these sort of things from happening.

How is it that you still have murder, rape, etc.?

[depakid]

51. Newsflash: Indian charged with faking racist attack in Australia

An Indian man who claimed he was set on fire in a racial attack in Australia was actually burnt while torching his car for an insurance claim, police said on Wednesday.

A series of attacks on Indian students in Australia over the past 18 months, which police have said are criminal rather than racially motivated, have strained ties between the two nations and damaged Australia's lucrative foreign student market.

Indian media have slammed Australia as a racist country but Indian nationals have now been charged over two of the most recent attacks.

Australian authorities cited not only the Indian man who has been charged after burning himself in an alleged insurance scam but also the case of Indian Ranjodh Singh.

Two Indian nationals have been charged with his murder after his body was found on the side of a road last December.

More: http://in.reuters.com/article/topNews/idINIndia-45874920100203

[Glassunion]

54. Wow! This is your excuse for racism and murder? Pathetic...

You find a story where one guy faked it, and somehow it negates all of the incidents of racism and murder that exist in your so called advanced society.

I get it now. One apple spoils the bunch for you doesn't it? Millions of defensive gun uses in a year, but one criminal fucks up and no one should have a gun in your eyes. Right?

Same thing goes for the situation that is going on in your country. One of the "brown" people fake an insurance claim, fuck it, it's ok that we have been killing them. Shit let's go kill some more. Right?

You make a brilliant parrot. I also do not doubt your copy and paste skills. But as far as trying to justify racism and murder with this story is sick. Look at it like this, one woman fakes a rape and now somehow all rape is ok. No it is not by the way (in case you had a doubt) But I do see why you and shares get along.

Pure dipshitery...

[depakid]

55. LOL- you don't miss a beat, do you?

The point is that there hasn't been evidence of widespread racism like the Indian media's been reporting (and the Indian government's acknowledged that). If someone walks through a dangerous city park late at night and get bashed or mugged- just because you happen to be Indian doesn't make it a racist attack.

I guarantee you'll see a LOT more of that in America than you'll ever see in Oz.

As to the irrational fear that causes you bring guns into your home and put your family at a greater risk of harm- that's pretty clearly evidenced here by your dishonest obsession with millions (sic) of "defensive gun uses."

Sad really, that you live with that sort of worry- but sadder still that the response to it costs so many innocent (and not so innocent) Americans their lives.

[Glassunion]

58. Your right, I forgot.

You are a far more culturally advanced nation than we are. Again 130 of my little brown brothers and sisters that have been attacked do not count. Also almost 1500 incidents of crime against them in Victoria alone does not count either. 33 dead, I understand. They don’t count. I get it. They should just go back where they came from and stop taking seats in your schools.

It is ok; I would gladly welcome them here instead.

I’m sure that they would be much safer here. Especially their women, Right? You know what I’m talking about.

Don’t delude yourself or us. There is racism in your country. I do not deny that there is racism here in ours. But don’t be so conceited to dismiss it away to suit you own needs.

I could go on and on, however I think that you are missing my point.

That point is this… Both of our countries have shitty people. In fact, I think that all countries have shitty people in them. We are all different culturally, and that is to be respected not abused. But nothing your ruling government does, or our government does to us will eliminate the fact that we both have criminals.

In my opinion, guns are tools, they are not the root cause of crime. The issue I feel, in both of our nations, is that we need to address the root cause of crime, not the tools. Crime can be committed with anything. I think we should focus our efforts on the crime and the criminal, and not so much the tools. Focusing on an implement and not the root cause seem to me to be wasted effort. Take away the gun and crime is still there. Address the root cause of the crime and the crime goes away. How we do that, and not strip the rights of the people away, I don’t know? I am listening.

[gorfle]

20. Newsflash: firearms are used to commit crimes!

There is no need to post anecdotes of firearms being used to commit crimes.

No one is claiming that firearms are never used to commit crimes. No one disputes this.

The simple fact is, most firearm owners are not involved in violent crime. By the FBI's own data, that has been published here many times before, even if every single violent crime, whether committed using a firearm or not, was attributed to firearm owners, it would still mean that over 96% of firearm owners are not involved in violent crime, as there simply aren't enough violent crimes to go around given the vast number of firearm owners in the United States.

So yes, we get it, we understand - people commit crimes with firearms, and we fully support measures that keep firearms out of the hands of criminals (most murders are committed by people with extensive criminal backgrounds).

What we will not tolerate is infringing on the freedoms of the rest of us for the sake of criminals.

[Euromutt]

50. Yes, thank you!

You'd think it shouldn't need pointing out, but evidently it does.

[depakid]

52. What you tolerate- if not encourage through irresponsible proliferation is more families killed

And as has been stated many time before to howls from the owardly:

Having guns in the household makes members of that household more likely to become victims (or perpetrators) of a violent crime or tragedy.

As we see yet again with these two families.

[Euromutt]

56. You have quite a flair for self-aggrandizing melodrama, don't you?

"Howls from the cowardly," indeed. That's an interesting characterization of responses that have attempted to point out ad nauseam the consistent flaws in the various epidemiological "studies" which tendentiously interpret gathered data towards a predetermined conclusion that firearm possession is a "risk factor" for violent injury or death. And by "interesting" I mean "rampantly dishonest." Repeating that particular claim doesn't make it any less false.

What's your problem, depakid? Got an inferiority complex you have to compensate for? Trying to prove to yourself that, no matter how much of a toss-pot you might be, at least you're better than the "seppos" in general, and the ones who own firearms in particular? You do understand, I hope, that calling other people cowards from the other end of an internet connection is hardly a test of personal courage? And that clinging to beliefs for which the evidence is shaky (to say the least) is not a virtue? I suspect that particular hope on my part is in vain.

Well, if anonymously slagging off people on the internet helps you cope with your own shortcomings, have at it. Just as long as you realize you're not fooling anyone but yourself.

[gorfle]

57. This has been shown not to be true.

What you tolerate- if not encourage through irresponsible proliferation is more families killed

First of all, no one is encouraging "irresponsible proliferation". Nearly everyone agrees that only responsible, law-abiding people should be allowed to own firearms.

Yes, we tolerate the fact that less than 4% of all firearm owners could be involved in violent crime. We tolerate this because it is completely unfair to penalize 96% of firearm owners for the irresponsible actions of 4%.

And as has been stated many time before to howls from the owardly:

Having guns in the household makes members of that household more likely to become victims (or perpetrators) of a violent crime or tragedy.

This has been demonstrated to be untrue. Please read the following article:

http://www.cardozolawreview.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138:kates201086&catid=20:firearmsinc&Itemid=20

The single largest determinator in whether or not someone who owns a gun is likely to commit murder with it is whether or not they have a past criminal background.

The simple fact is, most people who commit crimes with firearms have extensive criminal backgrounds that would prohibit them from owning them in the first place.

From the article:

"MASSACHUSETTS: “Some 95% of homicide offenders . . . arraigned at least once in Massachusetts courts before they . . . . On average . . . homicide offenders had been arraigned for 9 prior offenses.22

ATLANTA: Eighty percent of 1997 Atlanta murder arrestees had previously been arrested at least once for a drug offense; and 70% had three or more prior drug arrests—in addition to all their arrests for other crimes.23

DELAWARE: Reporting on shootings, including many in which victims had only been wounded rather than killed, 80% of shooters had arrest records going all the way back to their juvenile years; 57% had been charged at least twice with drug offenses.24

NEW YORK CITY: A New York Times study of the 1,662 murders in that city over the years 2003-2005 found “ore than 90 percent of the killers had criminal records . . . .”25

ILLINOIS: Over the years 1991-2000, the great majority of murderers had prior felony records.26"

So if you are law abiding, as 96+ percent of firearm owners are, then you are not likely to commit murder with your firearm even if you keep a firearm in your home.

I would be interested in knowing Mr. Fred LeDuc's prior criminal background. Since his charges include illegal possession of a firearm and illegal possession of ammunition, I'm guessing he was prohibited from owning them (unless they are illegal to posses without a permit in Massachusetts) because of some past criminal problem.

[proteus_lives]

30. Proving yourself wrong once again.

This is the result of criminal behavior. Not guns.

[michreject]

36. Me, I want nationwide reconigition of my CCW permit

Then I might be able to see NYC for the 1st time. Chicago too.

[MichaelHarris]

49. you actually

boycott cities because you can't carry your gun? That's the stupidest thing I've ever read on DU.

[michreject]

53. You should read some of the boycotts on CU- Talk about stupid

Actually it's not a boycott per say. I carry a gun every where I go. If I can't carry a gun, I don't go.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rd_kent]

60. If thats the stupidest thing you have read on DU..

Then you are not reading your own posts.

[Tim01]

39. Why are Austrailians upset about what Americans do in America? nt

[rrneck]

44. Beats thinking about their own troubles. nt

[proteus_lives]

48. They're not.

I think it's actually insecure ex-pats who are still trying to impress the locals.

[billybob537]

61. I should probably STFU but

I actually knew this guy.
He wasn't a gun nut, to all outward appearances he was an ordinary guy.
Something went horribly wrong in his head.
He had some money problems but they weren't insurmountable.
I had seen him 3 days before this happened, everything seemed normal.
Sometimes good people just flipout.
If he had no gun he would have used a bat or a knife.
I'm in no way trying to justify this.
I'm still trying to comprehend it.

[burrfoot]

62. Is that "don't let the bastards grind you down" in your sig line? n/t

[billybob537]

63. Preety much

Don'ty let the bastards get you down.

[burrfoot]

65. Nice. n/t