Michael Moore Strikes Back

[MrBenchley]

"I have mostly ignored this silliness. But a few weeks ago, this lunatic crap hit the mainstream fan. CNN actually put some guy on a show saying that my film contains "so many falsehoods, one after the other, after the other, after the other." They introduced him as a "critic" and "research director" of the "Independence Institute." He seemed mighty impressive.
Except they failed to tell their viewers who he really was: a contributing editor of Gun Week Magazine.
I saw another one of these lunatics, this time on MSNBC. A guy named John Lofton. He went on and on about how my movie is all made up. The anchor on MSNBC never challenged him on his lies and never told the viewers who he really was – a right wing crazy who believes Bush is too liberal. He was once an advisor to Pat Buchanan's Presidential campaign, and was a direct-mail writer for Jesse Helms.
I can guarantee to you, without equivocation, that every fact in my movie is true. Three teams of fact-checkers and two groups of lawyers went through it with a fine tooth comb to make sure that every statement of fact is indeed an indisputable fact. Trust me, no film company would ever release a film like this without putting it through the most vigorous vetting process possible. The sheer power and threat of the NRA is reason enough to strike fear in any movie studio or theater chain. The NRA will go after you without mercy if they think there's half a chance of destroying you. That's why we don't have better gun laws in this country – every member of Congress is scared to death of them.
Well, guess what. Total number of lawsuits to date against me or my film by the NRA? NONE. That's right, zero. And don't forget for a second that if they could have shut this film down on a technicality they would have. But they didn't and they can't – because the film is factually solid and above reproach. In fact, we have not been sued by any individual or group over the statements made in "Bowling for Columbine?" Why is that? Because everything we say is true – and the things that are our opinion, we say so and leave it up to the viewer to decide if our point of view is correct or not for each of them. "

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

[papau]

1. CNN/NBC/MSNBC interview RR "experts" and never question answers !!

Is that bias?

:-)

[MrBenchley]

2. You betcha...

That gosh darn lib'rul media...

[Emoto]

3. those stations...

...have the journalistic and investigative ability of a broom closet. Do not expect them to ever have a clue about anything.

[Emoto]

4. See what he does?

He defends his film on the basis of "every fact in my movie is true" and that is a very intelligent approach, as virtually every fact (eg, "Heston spoke these words") when taken out of the context of the film is verifyable. It does not, however, address the false impressions that the film creates through clever editing, omission of fact, and juxtapositions designed to mislead. His response that Benchley posts above is fairly typical in that it blasts the messenger rather than dealing with substance.

For more: http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

[ruralpro]

5. Just one example will suffice

Mr, Moore's movie depicts a scene where a person walks into a bank and opens a new account, and instead of getting a toaster as a premium the teller at the bank reaches under the counter and hands over a rifle. The impression that is being conveyed is that guns are so prevelent in society they hand them out like candy at holloween.
The facts are that in fact a bank did give rifles as a premium when opening an account. the problem is that the bank did not hand a gun over the counter on the spot. The bank gave a gift certificate to a local gun retailer and when the certificate was presented, all the paper work was proccessed and then the customer was able to take a gun home for the wee ones to play with

[MrBenchley]

7. Glad you brought that up...

Since Moore addresses that too....

"In the spring of 2001, I saw a real ad in a real newspaper in Michigan announcing a real promotion that this real bank had where they would give you a gun (as your up-front interest) for opening up a Certificate of Deposit account. They promoted this in publications all over the country – "More Bang for Your Buck!"

There was news coverage of this bank giving away guns, long before I even shot the scene there. The Chicago Sun Times wrote about how the bank would "hand you a gun" with the purchase of a CD. Those are the precise words used by a bank employee in the film.

When you see me going in to the bank and walking out with my new gun in "Bowling for Columbine" – that is exactly as it happened. Nothing was done out of the ordinary other than to phone ahead and ask permission to let me bring a camera in to film me opening up my account. I walked into that bank in northern Michigan for the first time ever on that day in June 2001, and, with cameras rolling, gave the bank teller $1,000 – and opened up a 20-year CD account. After you see me filling out the required federal forms ("How do you spell Caucasian?") – which I am filling out here for the first time – the bank manager faxed it to the bank's main office for them to do the background check. The bank is a licensed federal arms dealer and thus can have guns on the premises and do the instant background checks (the ATF's Federal Firearms database—which includes all federally approved gun dealers—lists North Country Bank with Federal Firearms License #4-38-153-01-5C-39922).

Within 10 minutes, the "OK" came through from the firearms background check agency and, 5 minutes later, just as you see it in the film, they handed me a Weatherby Mark V Magnum rifle (If you'd like to see the outtakes, click here). "

The website links to the Chicago Sun Times account...

"North Country's arrangement with Weatherby in Atascadero, Calif., is the brainchild of Ronald G. Ford, the bank's chairman and chief executive.
"It's a high-end product that fits the lifestyle here," Ford said.
Ford, who owns seven Weatherby rifles and shotguns, hunts black bear and white-tailed deer in Michigan -- and elk and mule deer in Colorado, pheasant in the Dakotas and moose in Canada. "

Wonder if he hunts with Bwana Dick? Wonder if those trophies are kept in pens before he kills them? Wonder if those trophies are kept in pens while he kills them?

[ruralpro]

20. so the point is

that a person was able to walk into a federally licensed dealer and buy a gun. I dont know where to best place my displeasure.

[MrBenchley]

21. You might ask yourself

why gun nuts all over right wing loonyland are besides themselves screaming that this FACT is a lie.....

[ruralpro]

25. the depiction

in the movie showed Moore going into a bank and walking out with a gun
this is true but is a deliberate misleading of the people viewing the film. What happened was in fact a person walking into an approved gun dealer and walking out with a gun. Why did Mr Moore who is possible one of the most adept film makers put this into a movie that by Mr. Moores own words best exhibits the gun culture of America. He bought a gun at a gun dealer. WOW

[MrBenchley]

30. Who are you trying to kid?

"the movie showed Moore going into a bank and walking out with a gun
this is true"

Yeah, it IS true. You think it's any less idiotic BECAUSE the bank is a gun dealer too? Tell us why freepers like this hardlylaw are so desperate to pretend this is some sort of lie...

[ruralpro]

31. depiction is deliberate

and that is the point. I scoured the law journals and the code of Michaigan Law. Can't find restrictions that would prohibit a gun shop from seeking a bank charter. Again what is the point for this being in a movie? I bought a gun at a gun shop. Dam who'd a thunk it

[MrBenchley]

35. Who the hell are you trying to kid?

"Again what is the point for this being in a movie?"
Because it IS fucking ridiculous...which is why movie audiences laugh out loud when they see it...and why folks like hardlylaw are trying hard to spin it away.

"I bought a gun at a gun shop."
And Michael Moore was given a gun as a premium by a bank....and the scene made its point.

[Stilgar]

40. The scene made a bad point

So you have to go to a bank, give them $1000 and paperwork to create the CD.

Then you have to fill out the Firearms app. Which is then checked by the Feds. At the end he gets a shotgun with no ammo.

He asks isnt it crazy to give out guns at a bank and cuts off any answer. Why is that?

Could it be that Bank cameras filming everyone, application with id, Credit history, Firearm app, federal approval to sell the gun, and $1000 the bank has of your money might deter a customer that now has an unloaded shotgun.

The only crazy person would be the one to do something with the gun once the bank gave it to them. But he doesnt go into that.

[MrBenchley]

41. Tee hee hee....

"He asks isnt it crazy to give out guns at a bank and cuts off any answer. Why is that?"
Because the answer, obviously, is yes. That's why audiences laugh their asses off.

"The only crazy person would be the one to do something with the gun once the bank gave it to them."
Well, yeah....that IS kind of the point. That's why pretty much all banks that aren't loony-tunes wouldn't let someone lug a gun around the lobby...much less offer to give a person a gun if they didn't have one...

[Stilgar]

42. yes $1000 dollars to rob a bank is stupid

To pay $1000 for a $250 gun that has to pass a background check.

The laughter was AT Moore. He paid $1000 to get a $250 gun from a licensed dealer.

No one has ever been stupid enough to rob a bank with such a gun, so again why is it bad to give out an unloaded gun when you have $1000 of the customers money and all the identification you could need?

[MrBenchley]

45. Gee, stil...

If the laughter was AT Moore, why would the gun nuts be lying so desperately and trying to spin the scene away?

"The laughter was AT Moore. He paid $1000 to get a $250 gun from a licensed dealer."
Uh, read the ad again, Stil...they bank PAID him to take the gun. It was a PREMIUM when he invested in a CD.

"again why is it bad to give out an unloaded gun"
<sarcasm>Jeeze, good thing ammunition is so hard to come by, isn't it?</sarcasm>

[Stilgar]

51. reread the ad

Because people do not think through to having to give $1000 for 20 years to the bank for a gun. And all the paperwork and checks that are done before the gun is given out. It is implied that after a couple of minutes he got a shot gun.

The ad says that for a 20 year CD you need a little over $1000 for the mark v gun and that it is presented in lieu of the interest. So in 20 years he gets is $1000 back... what a deal its a free gun in 20 years.

What stops someone from buying at a gun store and walking into a bank, both have to pass firearm check.

[MrBenchley]

53. So in other words

they gave it to him free when he invested in a CD justas I said....he didn't buy it for $1,000, despite what YOU claimed.


"What stops someone from buying at a gun store and walking into a bank, both have to pass firearm check."
Geeze, I don't have to pass a background check to deposit a check at MY bank....but then I'm not a gun-toting loony, either.

[MrBenchley]

54. Uh, stil...

"Because people do not think through to having to give $1000 for 20 years to the bank for a gun. "
Gee, guess those gun nuts aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

[RoeBear]

56. Do you think that someone is really going to use this method...

...of gun purchase to rob a bank?

Has it EVER happened in the past?

[RoeBear]

57. Does the movie make mention...

...of the background check?

[MrBenchley]

6. What he does

is tell the truth, unlike this idiot you're dredging up AGAIN, moto.

"His response that Benchley posts above is fairly typical in that it blasts the messenger rather than dealing with substance."

You mean like THIS, moto?

"Heston took his NRA show to Denver and did and said exactly what we recounted. From the end of my narration setting up Heston's speech in Denver, with my words, "a big pro-gun rally," every word out of Charlton Heston's mouth was uttered right there in Denver, just 10 days after the Columbine tragedy. But don't take my word – read the transcript of his whole speech. Heston devotes the entire speech to challenging the Denver mayor and mocking the mayor's pleas that the NRA "don't come here." Far from deliberately editing the film to make Heston look worse, I chose to leave most of this out and not make Heston look as evil as he actually was.
Why are these gun nuts upset that their brave NRA leader's words are in my film? You'd think they would be proud of the things he said. Except, when intercut with the words of a grieving father (whose son died at Columbine and happened to be speaking in a protest that same weekend Heston was at the convention center), suddenly Charlton Heston doesn't look so good does he? Especially to the people of Denver (and, the following year, to the people of Flint) who were still in shock over the tragedies when Heston showed up.
As for the clip preceding the Denver speech, when Heston proclaims "from my cold dead hands," this appears as Heston is being introduced in narration. It is Heston's most well-recognized NRA image – hoisting the rifle overhead as he makes his proclamation, as he has done at virtually every political appearance on behalf of the NRA (before and since Columbine). I have merely re-broadcast an image supplied to us by a Denver TV station, an image which the NRA has itself crafted for the media, or, as one article put it, "the mantra of dedicated gun owners" which they "wear on T-shirts, stamp it on the outside of envelopes, e-mail it on the Internet and sometimes shout it over the phone.". Are they now embarrassed by this sick, repulsive image and the words that accompany it? "

[Emoto]

13. Wrong again...

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/hestonrally1.htm

"Timeline trickiness

After this, we hear Moore telling us, ominously, that "just 10 days after the Columbine mass murders Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally."

The distortion is nauseatingly extreme. Heston's "cold dead hands" speech, which leads off Moore's depiction of the Denver meeting, was not given at Denver in defiance to Columbine. It was given a year later in Charlotte, North Carolina, and was his gesture of gratitude upon being given the handmade musket he's holding, at that annual meeting. A key word there is 'annual.' Although Moore successfully makes it appear that Heston has held the rally in response to the Columbine massacre - this wasn't the case.

The portrayal is that the line is made in defiance of Columbine while at an insensitive rally in Michigan, when it's actually a thank-you speech given a year later in North Carolina. It was a statement to reaffirm the right to own firearms, no different than saying the same thing with a steak raised over your head to show opposition to fanatical groups like PETA. It had nothing to do with any tragic event.

David Hardy from Hardylaw.net was the first to uncover this very tricky scheme with a close analysis of the scene and the facts from the real events.

After the 'cold dead hands' line, Moore then cuts the shot -- a visual of a billboard and his narration. This is vital. He can't go directly to Heston's real Denver speech or he gives away his secret. If he did that, you might ask how Heston in mid-speech changed from a purple tie and lavender shirt to a white shirt and red tie, and the background draperies went from maroon to blue. Moore had to separate the two segments."

"A defiant insensitive rally?

But now wait a second pal. Whether Moore deceived the audience about Heston defiantly saying the 'dead hands' line right after Columbine or not doesn't change the fact that a rally was held. Annual meeting or not -- How dare Charlton Heston hold a peaceful assembly through an organization that promotes responsible use and ownership of firearms where people had just been killed by malicious and illegal use of firearms, one might say. Well, 2 fun facts that debunk this:

FACT: - Mayor Webb (who at the last minute told the NRA to cancel the convention) had eagerly solicited the NRA convention for Denver. (2)

FACT: - Heston was required by law to hold this meeting by its non-profit charter from the state of New York, so cancellation was impossible. However, even if he wasn't legally required to hold it; the annual meeting in Denver was set to be held at that place and date years in advance. No way to change location, since you have to give advance notice of that to the members, and there were upwards of 4,000,000 members.

"FACT: - Much to the disappointment of NRA members, Heston took initiative to cancel the fun and merriment that normally surrounds these gatherings (normally several days of committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies), holding only its annual members' meeting, in the afternoon session we are shown.

Moore has to hide this fact to continue his deception so he uses another editing trick. He cuts Charlton Heston mentioning the cancellations out in a second edit that is covered by splicing in a pan shot of the crowd. Here is Heston's following announcement Moore didn't let you see, that says the NRA has in fact cancelled most of its meeting (as said prior - all that was possible):

"As you know, we've cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands. As your president, I apologize for that."

This quote, above all others from Heston's speech unequivocally crushes Moore's claim that he was holding the rally in defiance or any kind of insensitivity. The impossibility of him not seeing the full video of this quote, and his failure to apologize after the films release makes this blatant trickery and deception."

[MrBenchley]

16. What a goddamn pantload....

"David Hardy from Hardylaw.net"
The guy who's proud to be parrt of Free Republic? Some source you've got THERE.....NOT.

"Heston's "cold dead hands" speech, which leads off Moore's depiction of the Denver meeting, was not given at Denver in defiance to Columbine. "
It was played in Denver as part of the dreary old piece of shit's video introduction and distributed by the NRA to Denver area television stations.

"Much to the disappointment of NRA members, Heston took initiative to cancel the fun and merriment that normally surrounds these gatheringsMuch to the disappointment of NRA members, Heston took initiative to cancel the fun and merriment that normally surrounds these gatherings"
Geeze, why is that moto? I thought there was nothing wrong with the NRA holding their imbecile's jubilee?

"Heston was required by law to hold this meeting by its non-profit charter from the state of New York"
And of course New York law has no contingency for exigent circumstances...in a pig's eye. It's especially funny since the NRA has shown nothing but contempt for law itself.

[slackmaster]

18. goddamn pantload?

That's a new one.

:toast:

[slackmaster]

14. Here's another factual error that I believe bowlingfortruth missed

During a discussion of the acquisition of the firearms that Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris used in the Columbine HS massacre, someone stated bluntly that "no laws" were broken in any of the firearms purchases. That is a crock - Two people were prosecuted for their roles in several crimes that were committed. One served time in prison.

[CO Liberal]

15. Actually......

I don't believe that any laws were broken during the actual purchases of those firearms. The laws were broken when the guns were turned over to Harris and Kliebold.

[slackmaster]

17. The way it was presented in the film made it sound like the acquisitions

Were all completely legal. They were not.

And buying a gun with the INTENT to give it to someone else in exchange for money (not as a legitimate gift) is an illegal straw purchase.

[Liberal Classic]

8. Michael Moore Strikes Back?

He's the Death Star all by his lonesome. :evilgrin:

[MrBenchley]

9. He sure kicks the shit out of the NRA

and the rest of that screwloose klavern...

[Liberal Classic]

33. Maybe we could get

Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore close enough together that they will collapse into a singularity. :)

[Spoonman]

10. I don't know who he's striking back at.

Burger king because he's a fat?
Or his parents for failing to teach him the difference between truth and lies?

[MrBenchley]

11. Gee, spoon

The RKBA crowd sure didn't have any problem finding freepers like that hardlylaw idiot and posting THEIR rubbish here not so long ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=4693

Sounds like Moore's answered them, and shown the difference between truth and lies is that the truth is something the pro-gun side NEVER seems to have on its side.

Why WOULD an editor at "Gun World" try to hide that fact?

[Spoonman]

12. Gee MrBenchley

How many times and by how many people does it take to prove to you that Moore is a self serving fat piece of shit, that blatantly misrepresented the facts in his movie?

"truth is something the pro-gun side NEVER seems to have on its side"

You just having a hard time recognizing it after reading all the B.S. from VPC, Republican Brady and the Joyce Foundation!

[MrBenchley]

19. It sure would take more than a deranged freeper

like hardly law...

And truth IS something the pro-gun side NEVER seems to have on its side.. else the rKBA crowd wouldn't have to dredge up lying freepers and pieces of shit like Newsmax for sources.

Why WOULD an editor at "Gun World" try to hide that fact?

[alwynsw]

22. No argument here

The effort expended would be in vain. Tell a lie enough and not only will the people begin to believe it, but you will as well.

Let's all just worship at the altar and thank Mr. Moore for God.

on edit: Let's face the fact that he's the anti-gun equivalent of Rush Limbaugh. Lot's of flash, no substance. His I'm right because I say I'm right attitude is no better than Limbaugh's rants.

[MrBenchley]

24. Not even close to true....

Else there wouldn't be this deranged bunch trying to lie about the facts presented.

"Tell a lie enough and not only will the people begin to believe it, but you will as well."
Better post that hardlylaw crap a lot more then....

[slackmaster]

26. MrBenchley should be fined $1 for every inapprproate ellipse

:freak:

[alwynsw]

27. Facts?

Last post on this thread for me.

Since when is innuendo and distortion of events "fact"?

I'm done finished now. (If you're not a southerner, "done finished" may confuse you.)

[MrBenchley]

29. Facts ARE facts

and the plain fact is that Heston is a malignant turd, as Moore capably showed with Heston's own ugly words and deeds.


"As for the clip preceding the Denver speech, when Heston proclaims "from my cold dead hands," this appears as Heston is being introduced in narration. It is Heston's most well-recognized NRA image – hoisting the rifle overhead as he makes his proclamation, as he has done at virtually every political appearance on behalf of the NRA (before and since Columbine). I have merely re-broadcast an image supplied to us by a Denver TV station, an image which the NRA has itself crafted for the media, or, as one article put it, "the mantra of dedicated gun owners" which they "wear on T-shirts, stamp it on the outside of envelopes, e-mail it on the Internet and sometimes shout it over the phone.". Are they now embarrassed by this sick, repulsive image and the words that accompany it? "

Not nearly as much as they should be, Mike.

[alwynsw]

34. Get back to me when you have the facts and actual photos

from the Denver NRA meeting. I was there. There was no rifle raising and/or chanting. There was, however, both public and private prayers for the victims, their families, and the community as well as calls for justice. BTW, it was a called membership meeting, scheduled long before Columbine. The NRA was required by law to have the meeting to meet the guidelines of it's charter and to satisfy Federal Laws concerning it's recognition as a legal entity. The meeting was cut to bare bones to meet the aforementioned guidelines.

The information is available. Look it up. Or just ask me, as stated, I was there.

[MrBenchley]

36. Been there, done that...

At this point, guess who I think has credibility?

[alwynsw]

63. Based upon your reply, I assume that you were there as well

to witness the actual events?

[CO Liberal]

37. Maybe Not At THAT Meeting

....but Chuckles Heston has raised rifles many times. And there has been chanting at NRA meetings.

Thank you for being such a wonderful contestant. And what to we have for him, Don Pardo? A year's supply of Rice-A-Roni, the San Francisco Treat?

:-)

[MrBenchley]

39. Video of the old turd waving his musket in his cold dead hands

was shown in Denver to introduce the old crazy to the crowd.

[Stilgar]

43. proof

Show some, right now I have only found the NC speech. No where is there anything about Denver and Cold dead hands.

[MrBenchley]

46. Geeze, stil

Maybe you ought to watch the movie....you can see it for yourself.

[Stilgar]

50. read the transcript of the meeting

No mention of a video tape to introduce Heston.

Pictures of the event show no screens or monitors to view such film.

I can see no where he used that Dead hands statement anywhere near Denver.

Point to some place other than the movie (since that is what we are talking about being fake, referring to the movie as proof is not proof)

[MrBenchley]

52. Too too funny...

I plan to worry more about this issue when his cold dead hands come back to life...and shove the gun up his own ass...

"I can see no where he used that Dead hands statement anywhere near Denver."
Gee, do you suppose he was ashamed of it?

[alwynsw]

64. I can tell you for a fact that none of these things happened.

Once again, I was there. Everything was kept low-key. No "Cold dead hands stuff" no videos of raised rifles - just necessary business to maintain the charter.

Yes, there was some socializing, but the recent events at Columbine were taken into consideration by all I met so all socializing done in a nearly somber mood.

We could have broken things down after about an hour, but most of us had prepaid our hotel and advance booked our flights. We held meetings, etc. and toured the area to fill time.

No! Columbine was only visited by some to offer prayers. Let's get that straight. I saw no whining or gloating, as some have suggested elsewhere by any NRA members either at the meeting or otherwise during this time.

I cannot speak to what may have occurred behind closed hotel room doors where I was not present.

I make these last two statements to avert any flank attacks from those who wish to believe that all guns owners are lunatic asswipes, regardless of their other achievements or beliefs.

You know who you are.

[alwynsw]

58. Watch the distortion to "prove" a non-event

Your last straw is near breaking

[alwynsw]

23. Mr. Benchley- I never thought I'd say this:

This is one of those extremely rare instances that forces me to thank you.

Thanks for adhering to your own guidelines and refraining from posting this in you "Guns in the News" thread.

edited for grammar and construction

[MrBenchley]

28. Ahem....

Ironic that just a moment ago somebody was railing about Moore's lack of facts...

Whose guidelines are used in Guns in the News every day? Let's look at today's example...

"As CO Liberal sez:"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=29496

and yesterday?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=29348&mesg_id=29348

When were those guidelines revised last, I wonder?

"CO Liberal  (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-13-03 08:35 AM
Original message
GUNS IN THE NEWS - November 13, 2003 (Revised Guidelines)
Please try to adhere to the following guidelines, in order that we can have an orderly discussion of gun-related news topics:"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=22222&mesg_id=22222


What was it somebody said a moment ago? Oh yeah...Tell a lie enough and not only will the people begin to believe it, but you will as well. Lot's of flash, no substance.

[alwynsw]

32. You're as polite and courteous as ever

I believe that you may want to revisit Miss Manners on the acceptance of thanks.

I try to be nice to you and I get slammed. What a guy!

Aruging a point is one thing. I step aside from the discussion at hand to thank you for adhering to the same guidelines you ask the rest of us to follow and you slam me in return. I don't expect gratitude or even an aknowledgement, but this is out of line.

We can still disagree on Moore's veracity, yet remain civil.

edited for one glaring typo - warning: there may be others

[MrBenchley]

38. It came across to me as a back-handed insult

CO Liberal drew up the guidelines, and when I kick off the thread I acknowledge such. And yes, it is very ironic that somebody would get a basic facct wrong after slamming Michael Moore for "getting facts wrong" when in fact Michael had not.

If not then you should know that since this is not news, it wouldn't have belonged in that thread in the first place.

[alwynsw]

60. I would strongly recommend a refresher English course.

I fail to see the sarcasm (a requisite component for backhanded compliments) present in:

This is one of those extremely rare instances that forces me to thank you.

Thanks for adhering to your own guidelines and refraining from posting this in you "Guns in the News" thread.

There was no sarcasm implied or inferred. It was and is a simple statement of thanks.

[MrBenchley]

65. Yeah, surrrrrrrrrrrrre.....

[alwynsw]

61. I've re-read this rant several times and it still fails to make sense

What in the world does all of this have to do with the fact that I made a civil gesture by thanking you for putting this here instead of in another thread?

[MrBenchley]

67. Yeah, surrrrrrrrre...

[Spoonman]

44. Just start singing

the old South Park song in your best Cartman voice;
Kyle's mom is a big fat bitch,
Only substitute Kyle and mom with Michael Moore.
Every time I see a picture of Michael Moore I can't help but think of Cartman.
Anyone else see the resemblance?

[MrBenchley]

47. Wow....

Good thing the RKBA crowd's not desperate or anything....

[Spoonman]

48. Desperate for some

humor....

Wait, we're talking about Michael Moore being an honest person.... now that's funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MrBenchley]

49. Hey, spoon

That's why there's a DU Lounge.

If you don't think Moore is honest, you better bring more to the table than that imbecile freeper hardlylaw.

[alwynsw]

62. The Lounge?

Moore is one of the most rabid anti-gunners in the country. Part of this venue is discussion for and against guns. How do you figure his honesty should be questioned in the lounge instead of here?

[MrBenchley]

68. Too TOO funny...

Care to tell us how spoon was questioning his honesty with that South Park crap?

If you don't think Moore is honest, the RKBA crowd better bring more to the table than that imbecile freeper hardlylaw.

[Fescue4u]

55. Michael Moore is the Rush limbaugh of the left

Both use exactly the same tactics.

Take a fact or two, and then surroud it sensationalism, hypel, hysteria, and misdirection.

Then do it in such a way that a person inclined to agree feels smug and self righteous about their shared positition.

Folks who worship Moore are about as simple as folks who worship Rush.

[alwynsw]

59. Well stated!

Is that Kentucky 34 Fescue?

[MrBenchley]

66. What a ludicrous post

Rush is a serial liar, racist, stupid and arrogant.

As we've seen,, the worst that can be said about Moore is he embarassed the sort of NRA asswipes who ought to have been embarassed to start with.

And there's a difference between shouting "Ditto!" every time a flabby coward like Rush flaps his yap, and pointing out what a pantload freeper Hardlylaw's lies about Moore's Bowling for Columbine is.

[Fescue4u]

69. Are you talking about Moore or Rush??

"is a serial liar, racist, stupid and arrogant"

I think both describe Moore AND Rush quite concisely.

[MrBenchley]

70. Gee, fescue

So far all we've got is the ravings of some freeper named hardlylaw against Moore....

I'm surprised the RKBA crowd hasn't produced Rush's opinion on some gun matter yet.....Newsmax, WorldNutDaily and the Washington Times (as well as some even scummier sites) have all been introduced to try to prove some dreary point or other by the pro-gun crowd here...

[Moderator]

71. time to put this one to bed

say good night boys and girls

locking