Royal Oak's choice: Guns or families

[marmar]

from the Detroit Free Press:




Royal Oak's choice: Guns or families

BY ROCHELLE RILEY
FREE PRESS COLUMNIST


As a huge fan of Western movies, I learned that it was common practice for gunslingers to give their firearms to bartenders -- or the marshal -- upon entering town.

In the case of "Tombstone," the fantastic movie that let Kurt Russell channel Wyatt Earp, such action was the law to keep lawlessness to a minimum.

Royal Oak isn't Tombstone. But doesn't it deserve the same level of common sense?

OK. Here's the story: The Ford Arts, Beats & Eats festival, which was held successfully and gun-free for a dozen years in Pontiac, will move to Royal Oak this year.

So-called open-carry gun proponents claim that a ban on bringing guns to the family festival violates their rights under state law and the Second Amendment to the Constitution.

As a matter of fact, Brian Jeffs of Michigan Open Carry Inc. (which I thought was an organization that advocated drinking beer in the car) said in a news report that the question isn't why people would want to attend a family festival with guns, but "why people would let the city violate the law?"

No, Mr. Jeffs.

The question is: Why would you want to be around thousands of people who don't want to be around you? ...........(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.freep.com/article/20100815/COL10/8150491/1319/Royal-Oaks-choice-Guns-or-families-at-festival#ixzz0wh2GBuL5

[oneshooter]

1. The law is paramount, it applies equally to all

"why people would let the city violate the law" is the right question. If you don't like the law then change it.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[geckosfeet]

16. Brilliant analysis.

Since we are making wise ass quips from the peanut gallery, here is mine:

If you don't feel safe at the Arts, Beats & Eats festival, stay away.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

24. By the logic being used why should we have let blacks into whites only neighborhoods where they

too were clearly not welcome.

Also its the organizers who are hanging out the unwelcome sign, not all of the attendees.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. I would wonder why anyone would want to go to an event with armed attendees

How many will stay home and not attend?

[marmar]

3. I love that festival, but the prospect of these Open Carry people walking around armed....

..... definitely makes me want to stay away.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. I wouldn't want to take kids

Not all open carry folks are peaceful.

[proteus_lives]

8. I wouldn't want to take kids.

Not all protester folks are peaceful.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Is this event a protest?

[proteus_lives]

14. Of course it is.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. What is being protested at this arts and eats festival?

[marmar]

27. Overpriced chicken shawarma !!!!

nt

[proteus_lives]

37. Using publics areas means that the laws apply.

They don't the right to restrict open carry on public property.

They want to deny rights to citizens, perfect place and reason to protest.

[cleanhippie]

64. What is being protested? The ignorance regarding guns and gun laws.

Of which is abundantly apparent in this sub-thread.

[Katya Mullethov]

67. But ..

They'll lead to harder stuff .

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PavePusher]

47. Cite to evidence, please? n/t

[pipoman]

53. I wouldn't want to take kids to the St. Patrick's Day

Parade in KC what with all those gays there..they may show affection or something..:sarcasm:

[proteus_lives]

6. I love that festival, but the prospect of these Anti-War, Pro-Choice, Pro-Eqaulity....

Pro-tolerance, Pro-Green people walking around expressing their rights.....

.....definitely makes me want to stay away.

[marmar]

9. ............

:boring:

[proteus_lives]

11. Hypocrisy stings.

[notadmblnd]

7. I attend AE&B every year it was in Pontiac

And I don't believe there are any open carry laws in Michigan- are there? I am aware there are concealed weapons and you must have a license, but to just show up and expose to expose your weapon, is just asking for trouble.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

25. If you substitute blacks for people openly carrying, are you still good with it?

Rights are rights.

[marmar]

42. Comparing African Americans to open carry gun enthusiasts is intellectually dishonest at best.....

.... something else at worst.

[PavePusher]

44. How so?

Civil Rights is Civil Rights, right?

Or are some Rights more equal than other Rights?

[Bold Lib]

54. No, it just brings hypocrisy to light. Some find that their own hypocrisy is very

difficult to deal with.

[-..__...]

55. A simple minded, ignorant hypocrite at that.

No, Mr. Jeffs. Ms Riley. The question is: Why would you want to be around thousands of people who don't want to be around you?

[proteus_lives]

56. +10

[ProgressiveProfessor]

62. Its a reasonable substation, and it if bothers you so, that says a lot about your position

[PavePusher]

46. "those Open Carry people"

There's a word for this... starts with "b"... something about predjudice... :eyes:

[Katya Mullethov]

61. I prefer to be refered to as a " You People "

chingas too-mingez ! lol ..I can do that in a perfect Ross Perot too .

[spin]

40. It will probably be the safest place in town...

A holstered firearm is safe.

As far as going to events with armed attendees, depending on the state where you live, you probably have attended events where people were carrying concealed. You just were unaware of it.

[notadmblnd]

4. LOl... the crazy runs deep with that one.

Pontiac is so crime ridden that locals in surrounding communities refer to it as Ponticrack. and this guy is afraid to go to Royal Oak unarmed? Stay home nutbag.

[proteus_lives]

10. Yeah! Cities should totally be allowed to choose what portions of the Constitution they follow!

What fun!

:sarcasm:

[demmiblue]

12. Nutters, the bunch of them.

:crazy:

[aikoaiko]

15. Let em carry within the bounds of the law and enjoy the festival.

Its not that difficult to live and let live.

[proteus_lives]

18. It shouldn't be.

But the concept of "live and let live" is simply to hard for some folks.

Fear and the desire to control others outweighs it.

[Paladin]

17. If You're Into Open-Carry, You're Not Interested In Personal Protection.

What you're interested in is overt public intimidation. In other words, you're exhibiting the exact sort of twisted mind-set that should keep you from possessing firearms, in any civilization that pretends to be civilized.....

[ProgressiveProfessor]

26. Unsupported hyperbole

[onehandle]

41. Exactly right. nt

[PavePusher]

43. That is a falsehood sir. n/t

[Taitertots]

50. Overt public intimidation, LOL

Anyone intimidated by holstered firearms has an unjustified fear of firearms. I don't believe we should bend the laws to cater to the excessively fickle or to unwarranted cowardice.

[kpominville]

65. Absolutely right

This is really about overt public intimidation, which is why these "open-carry" people bring their guns to their political "tea party" rallies, to places where the president will appear and they talk in public about "2nd amendment remedies" if they don't win in the next election cycle.

[xchrom]

19. I wouldn't go in that case. Nt

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bozita]

21. Same battle, same time, western part of Michigan (St. Joe County)

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/08/gun_store_owner_calls_for_boyc.html

Gun store owner calls for boycott of St. Joseph County Grange Fair
Published: Saturday, August 14, 2010, 6:00 AM Updated: Saturday, August 14, 2010, 1:03 PM
Kathy Jessup | Kalamazoo Gazette


Fritz Klug | Kalamazoo Gazette
The sign outside of Gunslingers Gun Shop, north of Three Rivers on U.S. 131, urges CPLs, or Concealed Pistol Licensees, to unite and boycott the St. Joseph County Grange Fair in Centreville because of a recent decision to ban firearms from the fairgrounds.



CENTREVILLE — Visitors to this September’s St. Joseph County Grange Fair who want to “pack heat” will have to settle for carrying deep-fried jalapeno peppers.

Residents with licenses to carry concealed handguns will have to leave their weapons at home after fair officials posted a ban on firearms inside the expansive Centreville fairground.

The move has sparked a call to boycott the annual event.

Steve Doney, owner of Gunslingers Gun Shop, north of Three Rivers, is the most outspoken critic of the fair’s 2-year-old policy.

A sign outside his business on North U.S. 131 advocates “CPLs (Concealed Pistol Licensees) Unite. Boycott Centreville Fair.”

more...

[spin]

66. Since the fair bans concealed weapons, I wouldn't attend...

Primarily on principle, but also because the fair is advertising itself as a shooting gallery for some fool with mental problems.

Lots of people and lots of targets.

[EC]

23. Is this fair put on by the town (public)

or by a private enterprise, who has a right to not allow guns on premises?


Other than that, I wouldn't go if there are going to be guns there...and the argument that there will be anti-war etc. protesters...they normally don't go to art fairs to protest, they go to marchs, so that argument is a strawman...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

28. They are using public streets and other public facilities

where open carry is normally allowed

[Bold Lib]

31. And there in lies the rub. See, it is a public affair on public streets.

But in order to get around the carry law the city leases the public property to a private enterprise for the duration of the fair. It is an end run around the law.

First, I find the idea of turning over public property to a private interest (even for a short time) abhorrent in and of itself.

Second, this is a clear attempt to skirt the law by a city government. I find that equally abhorrent for this event/reason or any other event/reason. Consider a city leasing public property over the Christian Coalition for a weekend fair that celebrates some belief of theirs. They could just as easily ban the open display of any other faith. This is NOT good police.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

34. Per another article, the police chief has no problem with open carry at this event

Royal Oak police "don't anticipate any issues" in dealing with festival patrons carrying handguns, Chief Christopher Jahnke said.

They won't be able to take a gun into a bar, "but they can go anywhere they want within the festival area," which will be fenced off and will have people openly consuming alcohol on the streets, Jahnke said.

Found at: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?Avis=C4&Dato=20100815&Kategori=NEWS05&Lopenr=8150432&Ref=AR&template=fullarticle

[Bozita]

29. Gungeoned!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

33. Appropriately so

[east texas lib]

32. All right! Lots of potential unarmed victims!

Now load up the popguns Cleetus, and lets go get paid!

[X_Digger]

35. Funny, I bet she wouldn't apply this question..

.. to other people that some dislike..

The question is: Why would you want to be around thousands of people who don't want to be around you?

Like GLBT people? Like Muslims? Like African Americans?

Ahh the hypocrisy.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

63. They do not allow comments to her columns. Perhaps their web server can not deal with traffic

Its not the first time Riley has gone of the deep end

[Euromutt]

36. For reference, there's an earlier thread about this

Just in case anyone's interested in reading points that have already been made.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x333900

[onehandle]

38. What a tightly packed street fair needs are guns being brushed against your kid's scalp.

Stories like this are so helpful to the open carry crowd.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jazzhound]

48. "Guns being brushed against your kid's scalp".

Guess we can always count on you for emotion-based drivel, can't we?

Your new talking point is every bit as "intelligent" as all of your previous.

[PavePusher]

49. Yeah, 'cause Trudeau's gun cred's are... ? n/t

[proteus_lives]

57. None.

That's why nohandle likes him. No facts or logic.

[jazzhound]

59. I believe that OH is the proud King of the LOL's*

LOL's are recognized by their:

1) Factose-intolerant positions
2) Use of repetitive, no-content posts involving gun violence in a pathetic attempt to conceal steadily decreasing levels of national gun violence
3) Use of logical fallacies, strawmen, red herrings etc. during the course of "debate"
4) Blind hatred of the NRA --- an organization which they themselves have empowered
5) Egos run riot -- which disallow them from considering the fact that bad gun policy undermines the Democratic Party and the implementation of worthy progressive ideals
6) Intellectual laziness which precludes them from engaging in any serious study of the complex issue involving gun "control"/gun violence
7) Extreme arrogance from a position of ignorance that prevents them from listening to liberal Democrats with credentials which far exceed theirs
8) Use of lazy, inflammatory rhetoric such as "guns rubbing up against your chid's scalp" to whip up their low information base (ala Limbaugh)

* Limbaughs of the Left

[Pavulon]

52. pffart. (nt)

[friendly_iconoclast]

58. Are you saying the fair will be as safe as those 'open carry Starbucks'...

...that Trudeau was pitching a fit about?


Really now, if you must try to recycle an attempt at a moral panic that turned out to have little basis in fact, I'll

happily point out that there really wasn't a rash of shootings in Starbucks in open-carry states, even after the Brady

Campaign, Trudeau, et al, all but promised us blood on the condiment counters.

[PavePusher]

45. Making laws based on Hollywood fiction...

strikes me as

A REALLY BAD IDEA. :crazy:


Just sayin'.

[Euromutt]

51. Fiction is correct; historically, "check your guns" only applied to certain parts of town

In Dodge City and Tombstone, you were only required to check your weapons in the parts of town that housed the saloons, dance halls, brothels etc. In Dodge City, that was specifically the area of town south of the railroad (i.e. "the wrong side of the tracks"). North of the railroad, in the residential and commercial districts, there was no such requirement.

[krispos42]

60. How do they know it was held gun-free in Pontiac for 12 years?

"I see no gun, therefore there are no guns" seems kind of dubious logic.