Commie gun grabber gun control zealots check in ;)

[corporatewhore]

Who thinks Gun Control and urban violence is a serious issue and who wants to make sure that people dont have stock piles of uzis to kill....deer with.Please reassure me that DU isnt the militia wing of the democratic party.

[JVS]

1. I lean commie, and I believe that the proliferation of firearms is ...

a prerequisite for positive political change.

[DoNotRefill]

5. After all...

The Government, a reactionary force, will always have guns. The question is "will the proletariat have access to guns"?

"Power flows from the barrel of a gun"--Mao

[JVS]

8. Not even the government, look at the RW loony-tunes

they could kill a huge number of liberals any day

[DoNotRefill]

11. so is being disarmed the answer?

"When they kick at your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun?"

[JVS]

13. Hell no.

be ready to bust some caps!

[library_max]

53. So guns are the answer.

They worked so well for the folks at Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc.

You think you're going to outshoot the U.S. military? Riiiiiiight.

:eyes:

[jpgray]

9. Yeah, but your Heckler and Koch won't do much to an M1 Abrams

Or an Apache. Unless we can have those too, I don't think the government would have much of a problem putting down a riot violently. :scared:

[DoNotRefill]

16. How big is the army?

there are 80-100 million gun owners in the US. We're your neighbors, your parents, your brothers and sisters, we're in your church or coven or whatever, we're your co-workers, we're your suppliers, your creditors, and your customers. In other words, we're everywhere, and the government can't exactly carpetbomb the "gun owning areas", can they? And if you think the US Army is going to put down the US People, you're delusional.

[jpgray]

22. Calm down, you're arguing with someone who isn't there :-)

The argument that gun ownership makes the government afraid to imprison citizens is pretty silly. They can take you right now, if they want. All they have to do is declare you an enemy combatant. If the cops come to arrest you, what are you going to do, shoot at them?

At any rate, owning a shotgun or something similar is the best for home defense. An assault weapon or a handgun just doesn't make sense.

[DoNotRefill]

28. OK, there are 80-100 million gun owners...

where the HELL would they PUT US ALL if they imprisoned us? On the other hand, it'd give Bush EXCELLENT unemployment numbers, since it would require a few tens of millions of new prison guards...but who would be left to work to pay taxes to support 1/4 of the US population in jail, bieng watched by another 1/4 of the population?

Which is better? Being sent to a re-education camp and gassed, or at least being able to offer some resistance before they kill you?

The time to act is before they get the handcuffs on you and put you into the "delousing shower". After that, it's too late, you're dead, and they've won.

[jpgray]

32. Having a gun doesn't defend you against government injustice alone

Being part of an organized movement will, but that will defend you with or without guns. As you say, independent gunowners would be easily picked off, but all of them at once would be impossible.

I have no problem with gun ownership, but if you are crazy or have a serious criminal record, you certainly shouldn't own a handgun or assault weapon. That's all there is to it.

[DoNotRefill]

35. tell that to the Kulaks in the USSR...

They had an organized movement, and died by the millions.

[jpgray]

38. But they triumphed in the end, and not because they had guns (nt)

[JVS]

41. Kulak triumph? That's new.

[jpgray]

45. Each injustice contributed to the dissatisfaction of the people (nt)

[DoNotRefill]

48. Yup....unless you count the dead people...

Somehow, I don't think they were dissatisfied after they were DEAD....

[jpgray]

52. No, but in dying they helped save others from a similar fate (nt)

[JVS]

54. You are putting a pollyanna face on it

[jpgray]

55. OK, you win

;-)

[DoNotRefill]

56. Ah. So by becoming part of literally mountains of corpses...

they helped out other folks?

Have you ever seen the movie "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"? At the end, the principle is talking about lessons learned. It's pretty funny, and reminds me of this.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

30. If the cops come to arrest you, what will you do?

Go quietly? It's only a shower!

[jpgray]

36. Try to get my story out there

Only a mass of people will thwart government oppression--it's more about the movement than the guns. As the poster above says, it's easy to pick off citizens one by one with or without guns, but it's not so easy to take out an organized group of people. Killing or wounding a few cops wouldn't make me feel much better, but getting my story out so people have the chance to fight against the injustice would.

And you know, that doesn't require a gun. :)

But again, I don't want to take people's guns. I don't think assault weapons or handguns should be owned without passing some requirements, though.

[sangh0]

42. They won't have to come to get me

I'll be presenting myself for arrest in a non-violent action. We will fill the jails and the prison camps and their vision of a disctatorship will be ruined by the people's unwilligness to cooperate with their oppressors. Just like it happened in the Philipine, The USSR, E Germany, Yugoslavia, India, and the United States

[alwynsw]

65. I prefer a shotgun for home defense, but

try turning quickly enough in a hallway with a longarm to save yourself or your family from an assailant that's behind you. Been there, done that, took the classes, taught the classes, practiced it, did it in real life. I got a scar on my leg. He won't attack anyone ever again. I used a .45 acp - 1911 model.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

19. If you don't like guns, don't get one

simple isn't it?

[youngred]

2. I'd fit that description

:-)

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

3. Uzis aren't to kill deer

Uzis have another function in a democratic society - can you guess what it is, you "commie gun grabber"? Hint: Ask the Swiss.

Amazing how so-called "leftists" want to disarm regular people but leave the cops and the military armed to the teeth. Useful idiots?

[jpgray]

4. Me. I think gun control is of serious importance

I don't want to steal everyone's guns, but I do think ownership should have to pass some stringent requirements for handguns and assault weapons.

[corporatewhore]

14. exactly i think that giving machine guns to psychopaths

is well insane

[slackmaster]

60. Me too

And I think writers who abuse hyperbole deserve to be taken out and shot.

:freak:

[Jerseycoa]

6. Reporting in, corporatewhore

Very serious issue to me. Thanks for bringing it up.

[MrBenchley]

7. Gun control is a winnning issue

and there's no reason to pander to the GOP's loudest and most extreme splinter group.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

25. Yes - that's why we have Democratic majorities everywhere in the country

Oh wait, I forgot, we have no majorities anywhere. Nevermind.

[corporatewhore]

26. becuase they arnt like bush on the issue?

[MrBenchley]

59. Hahahahahahaha......

Is that what your nickname means....that Republicans have the majorities?

[el_gato]

33. Gun control is for those who will have us be slaves of the government

it's getting pretty damn close

[MrBenchley]

58. Is that why AshKKKroft's agenda is gun rights?

Hand us another BIG laugh.

[AntiCoup2K4]

10. As long as there are unelected criminal fascists in the White House

passing "patriot acts" with deliberately vague language about undefined "terrorists", I won't vote for "gun control".

And for the record, I'm no gun nut. I don't even own one....yet. But I've never thought more seriously about it than I have the last three years.

[bluestateguy]

12. I support the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms

Oh, yes, I really trust John Ashcroft with a registry of all the gun owners in America. I could just see him ordering all guns confiscated from any person with an Arab last name. When you take away a man's ability to defend himself, you can oppress him.

[maddezmom]

15. never thought myself a "zealot"

but I fit your description....gun control is an important issue with me.

[Cuban_Liberal]

17. The problem isn't guns; the problem is predatory criminals.

I deal with this issue every day, and I have yet to handle a call involving a gun that just leaped out, loaded itself and held up a liquor store. The guns aren't the problem--- the predators who use guns are the problem.

It would be nice to finally see the Democratic party recognize that there is no asterisk appended to the 2nd Amendment.

[THUNDER HANDS]

18. I'm for gun control AND bullet control

I say keep all guns legal and tax the hell out of bullets. Make it $10 a bullet.

It would make people better shots and bring in much-needed revenue. :)

[DoNotRefill]

20. while creating a black market for bullets....

THAT'LL be fun!!! :(

[DoNotRefill]

24. Oh, yeah....

by taxing bullets, you'd make it so that the only people who could afford to defend themselves are the rich. How, exactly, is making it so that only rich people can exercise their rights a "progressive" ideal?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

27. that's the common thread to every "gun control" proposal isn't it?

Keep guns out of the hands of working Americans, meanwhile the rich can be armed all they want. They aren't fooling anyone.

[THUNDER HANDS]

29. personally, I'd like to keep guns out of everyone's hands

And I'm not too worried about the Feds breaking down my Long Island door. If they ever did that I'd just lay on the floor on my stomach, not come out with two guns blazing like some suburban commando. :)

[DoNotRefill]

34. how are you going to disarm the Government?

and would you care to guess how many millions of disarmed civilians were slaughtered by their governments during the 20th Century?

[THUNDER HANDS]

47. you CAN'T disarm the government

And even if you could, it would take DECADES of armed resistence. It's not going to happen. So the whole argument of keeping firearms to protect yourself from the govt. is just absurd and outside the realm of logic and reason.

[DoNotRefill]

50. Let me make sure I have this right...

We can't disarm the Government, so we should disarm ourselves????

[THUNDER HANDS]

57. well I just don't like guns period

I don't have any problem with people having them. I just think its kinda creepy that they do.

I have a cousin who collects and owns TONS of firearms. I wouldn't let my kid stay at his house. Hell, I wouldn't let anyone I care about walk around there unsupervised.

Ban guns, don't ban guns - it really doesn't matter to me. I just don't ever want to be in close proximity to a gun in my lifetime.

[DoNotRefill]

31. And if the rich are disarmed...

well, they can afford to hire off duty cops as "security"...

Gun control is definitely classist, and it has STRONG racist overtones, too. So much so, that in the 1940's the Florida Supreme Court ruled that anti-gun laws didn't apply to whites, because the legislative intent was only to disarm minorities. No kidding, they actually said that.

[youngred]

21. you stole that from Chris Rock

but it is a good idea

[EstimatedProphet]

23. Sorry to disagree

I can't support gun control, not with the current administration. The NRA says that the Democratic party wants to take away our gun ownership rights, but the Republican perty wants to take away our gun ownership rights...last.

[corporatewhore]

37. What so wrong about gun control laws

why do we need machine guns?
Why is it so bad that people wih a violent history like wife abusers dont have guns?
Why is it so wrong that we want to discourage the impact of crazy right wing militias going out to hunt more than deer?
We dont want to take your guns away we just dont want us or our loved ones to get shot in the crossfires

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

43. "crazy right wing militias"

Don't believe the hype. You have been lied to.

[corporatewhore]

46. I've lved in east texas so i know it aint hype

[DoNotRefill]

44. since when is "need" determinative to exercising a civil right?

Did Rosa Parks NEED to be in the front of the bus?

I don't support spousal abusers having guns. Oh, wait, that's ALREADY illegal.

I don't support crazy right wing militias hunting "more than deer". Oh, wait, that's ALREADY illegal.

Since they started tracking legal machineguns in 1934, how many have been used in crimes? Care to guess? Because I know EXACTLY how many. Hint: It's less than THREE cases TOTAL since 1934. There are just over 250,000 machineguns in the hands of private citizens legally. Let's see...2 crimes committed (one by a police officer with a privately owned machinegun) since 1934....does the term "practically never" mean anything to you?

[MrBenchley]

61. Since when is waving a popgun a civil right?

"Since they started tracking legal machineguns in 1934, how many have been used in crimes? Care to guess?"
Who the fuck cares? Are you trying to pretend we ought to let loonies have machine guns because they want them?

[DoNotRefill]

62. "waving a popgun" isn't a civil right...

"The right to keep and bear arms" IS.

As for loonies with machineguns, that's already illegal, just as those "adjudicated mentally defective" can't have other guns. If, however, the person isn't a criminal or insane, I have no problem with them having a machinegun.

[MrBenchley]

63. Joining a well regulated militia (the National Guard) is

"If, however, the person isn't a criminal or insane, I have no problem with them having a machinegun."
Yeah, there's a winning issue....machine guns for everybody!!

[slackmaster]

67. Why does the anti-RKBA side ALWAYS distort pro-gun positions?

....machine guns for everybody!!

Which is not what anyone here has suggested, ever.

[slackmaster]

66. The father of all Straw Men!

Are you trying to pretend we ought to let loonies have machine guns because they want them?

Nobody, literally nobody here is arguing for an end to the controls on machine guns.

[slackmaster]

64. Do you really want to discuss gun control here?

Or are you just using this thread as a dumping ground for baseless hype like:

why do we need machine guns?

Which doesn't relate in any meaningful way to reality, or

Why is it so bad that people wih a violent history like wife abusers dont have guns?

Which will be characterized, with good reason, as lack of enforcement of existing law by the pro-RKBA side?

[quinnox]

39. Not a commie, but I am for heavy gun control

I think restrictions should be made a lot, lot tighter.

I am not for banning all guns, but it should be much harder to buy, sell, and own one.

And for sure ban all assault weapons, this is a no brainer. Even Bush agrees with this one.

[corporatewhore]

40. just tryin to use a little humor

[blm]

49. Socialist commie here. ;)

.

[mikehiggins]

51. I would be satisfied if the laws on the books were enforced

rather than go hog-wild with trying to add more laws to be ignored.

Politicians are happy to pass bills, unhappy to raise taxes to enforce them.

Oh, and in reply to another poster, the NRA is not a GOP front group. It is made up of millions of average citizens who believe, like the constitution tells them, that they have a right to own weapons. If the Republicans have won their support in the past it is because this is one of those rights other people think can be dismissed because they do not care for it. Democrats who appear to want to take that right away are as popular as democrats that want to raise taxes on the middle class.

If the Democrats are serious about winning any of the "red" states we have to enforce the gun laws on the books and stop demonizing guns and gun owners.

[slackmaster]

68. I belive in sensible, reasonable controls on gun ownership and use

Convicted felons, drug abusers, people adjudicated as incompetent, and those under restraining orders for domestic violence should not be allowed to possess guns.

In fact they are already not allowed under present law, but effective mechanisms to enforce those laws are not in place. We need better enforcement of existing laws. Until we get that, any additional laws restricting the right of honest citizens to buy, keep, or use guns would be pointless.

Restrictions on personal freedom that do not provide any offsetting benefit to society, like the assault weapon ban which will expire in September, are bad laws. Pointless laws like that are neither sensible nor reasonable.

[davidinalameda]

69. locking

flame bait