Senator Grassley struggles to get to the bottom of Agent Terry’s death and the role of ATF

[Bold Lib]

I known some may take exception to Senator Grassley being praised on D.U. but I for one am glad someone has picked up this ball and is running with it.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/view-from-baja-arizona/2011/02/17/senator-grassley-struggles-to-get-to-the-bottom-of-border-patrol-agent-brian-terrys-death-and-the-role-of-atf/

Senator Grassley struggles to get to the bottom of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry’s death and the role of ATF

Grassley found out that 2 of the weapons found at the site of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry’s murder scene in Rio Rico actually came from a gun shop in Phoenix. Of this there is no doubt any more.

Second, Grassley found out that ATF was running an investigation that called Project Gunrunner, allowing guns to be sold to “straw men” illegally, with said guns slipping into Mexico and into the hands of the Mexican drug cartels. The guns found at Agent Terry’s murder scene were tracked by ATF via Project Gunrunner.

Grassley raised the question how come ATF looked the other way while hundreds of guns are slipping into Mexico under ATF’s watchful eyes.

What Grassley has gotten from ATF and the US Department of Justice is a giant stone wall.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Please go to the link and read the rest. It is SHOCKING!!!

http://tucsoncitizen.com/view-from-baja-arizona/2011/02/17/senator-grassley-struggles-to-get-to-the-bottom-of-border-patrol-agent-brian-terrys-death-and-the-role-of-atf/

[AtheistCrusader]

1. I'd like to see some evidence they were 'let slip' and not tracked after the fact.

After they were long gone, by reviewing already closed sales.

I have seen such things before, that sure looked suspicious or like negligence, but in the end panned out to be simple bad timing.

[MyrnaLoy]

2. Just for a moment

remove the ATF from the equation. Were guns being purchased and smuggled across the border? Isn't that more important?

[benEzra]

3. The allegation is

that the U.S. gun dealer suspected that these were illicit purchases and was going to refuse the sales, but BATFE (which oversees dealers) told the dealer to go ahead with the sales for investigative reasons. BATFE then apparently lost track of the guns and two of them were subsequently used to murder a Border Patrol agent.

If that's the case, then the BATFE would indeed be culpable, because those sales would not have gone forward had the BATFE not told the dealer not to deny them.

Allowing a sale to go forward so that BATFE can arrest the criminals doing the straw purchasing and smuggling is certainly not a problem, but apparently someone in the agency dropped the ball at some point and then went into CYA mode after Agent Terry's death, and that is a problem IMO.

[Callisto32]

5. Come one, ben...

All government is good for is dropping balls and covering their asses.

[Callisto32]

4. No.

At least I would say not. This position is more cutting at leaves than striking the root. It paints this as a gun problem. It is not, it is the symptom of a prohibition problem.

Why so much violence in Mexico? If there is another cause, please inform me, but my understanding is that the drug runners are willing to use extreme force to protect their obscene profits. These profits are available because busy-body bureaucrats decided that they get to decide what people get to put into their bodies. This will never work. Human beings are self determining, and many want to put these "contraband" substances into their bodies.

Now, these substances can't be produce for general consumption without extreme secrecy and risk of imprisonment or worse. This turns something that should be relatively low-risk like farming cannabis, coca, or opium, into something that only those willing to take extreme risk will do. Now we are dealing with people that are putting a lot on the line to grow their crops, and who expect to make correspondingly high profits. Being the black market, the profits are made. Now, we have a bunch of people with a ton of money from doing something said busy-body bureaucrats say people should not be doing.

Power naturally follows money, so the "cartels" (which would be known as "farmers" or "businessmen" in a sane world) amass a lot of power through wealth. Now we are primed for a power struggle between the "legitimate" authorities and the "cartels." The busy-body bureaucrats declare "war" on something that is only as big a problem as it is because they decided to make it illegal in the first place. They are then shocked and horrified that people start shooting. They do not seem capable of understanding that such violence is the nature of the ugly, immoral, monster that is war.

So is it more important that guns are being smuggled? No, it is more important that the very state to which we look to solve such things is busy drumming them up.

[Bold Lib]

6. The ATF cannot be removed from the equation as they are not a variable.

The ATF is the constant in this equation. Had the ATF not intervened the sale would not have been made. That is the whole crux of the issue. I have read other reports that claim there was a second man with the purchaser and it has been speculated that the "second man" was in fact an ATF agent. Please read the whole article. The devil is in the details and it is a very big devil.

[MyrnaLoy]

7. I didn't know that

I haven't followed it very closely I admit. If the guy was going to refuse the sell then I can see the problem, thanks. Has there been good evidence that shows he was going to refuse yet?

[chibajoe]

8. According to this article in the LAtimes

Gun shop owners claim that the ATF told them to go forward with sales that they had grave misgivings about.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-atf-guns-20110203,0,6169639.story

[jpak]

9. Grassley is a republican dumbass - that's why he struggles

He believes in Palin's "death panels" too

what a moran

yup!

[Bold Lib]

10. So you believe that it is OK for the ATF to direct straw purchases to take place,

even if they result of a US Border Patrol agent?

[jpak]

11. Yeah - that's right (LOL) - sorry I don't buy into the whole ATF jackbooted thug fairy tale

Grassley is demagoguing and has no evidence to back up his stupid claims.

yup

[Bold Lib]

12. And there in lies the problem. You refuse to open your mind to facts

and happenings around you. If you'd bother to read the evidence you may find some very disturbing things. But I guess it is easier to keep your faith by being ignorant. There is a lot of evidence that points to the ATF doing illegal things here. Your refusal to look at that evidence does not mean it doesn't exist.

yeep

yeep

yeep
































































yeep

[jpak]

13. Yeah - it's a conspiracy and a coverup - that's what the ATF does all the time

That out of control ATF!!!!!1

What hooey

yup

[Bold Lib]

14. There is lots of evidence. Your refusal to look at it does not mean it doesn't exist.

yup




























































yup

[jpak]

15. Produce it

yup

[Bold Lib]

16. Already did. Click the link in the OP.

[jpak]

19. A rant by a right wing republican nutjob is not "evidence"

<snip>

Called “whistle blowers”, the ATF agents who are feeding Grassley and others the real skinny on what is going down are either heroes if you want truth and justice and an honest government, or traitors if you are high-ranking Obama Administration lackeys who want to sweep under the rug the fact that if they had not let the 2 guns slip, Agent Terry might still be alive today.

<snip>

Looking round the world one of the biggest problems in societies that yearn to be free are the secret police used by dictators to smash opposition. ATF is looking like the secret police accountable no one and especially any system of truth and justice.

<more>

koo koo

koo koo

yup

:rofl:

[Bold Lib]

21. Just like I said. Ignoring the evidence does not mean it doesn't exist.

You are ignoring the statements from those involved and the documents provided. I guess that is how faith works.

[rl6214]

24. Yeah, the ATF never does that

ahem, Ruby ridge, Waco

[rl6214]

23. Actually he has eye witness testimony

what have you got?

NADA

NADA

NADA

[Bold Lib]

25. He has

prejudice and faith. That's it.

yup

[Tejas]

17. Diane, is that you?

[jpak]

20. Why yes

:hi:

















:rofl:

[one-eyed fat man]

18. Grassley's letter to Holder

Letter to Justice 16 Feb 2011

It's obvious (1) he isn't going to let up and (2) he's getting VERY good internal intel. He knows that the FFL who sold the rifle used to kill Border Patrol Agent Terry had met with BATFE over a year before sale of that firearm, that the local Special Agent in Charge sent a memo to HQ right after the killing, the names of various task forces and when various presentations were made to HQ.

[Bold Lib]

22. I hope he doesn't let up on this. I only wish more Representatives would

have joined in on this. I was reading early on how there was a letter writing campaign to try and get congressional action on this. It seems that Grassly is the only one with the guts to take on the ATF.

[Bold Lib]

26. Looks like some more Congrescritters are joining in.

(well, senators really but I like the "congrescritter" title)

Lugar, Lieberman looking into ‘Project Gunwalker’ charges

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/lugar-lieberman-looking-into-project-gunwalker-charges