Do Guns Have a moral value?

[RSillsbee]

When I see a gun I see…. a gun (Unless I see a Lorcin or a Jimenez or a Llama or a Raven then I see a piece of crap gun) but I don’t place any moral value on it.

It’s an inanimate object that is only as good or bad as the person holding it.

When I read some posts here I seems to me that some posters place moral value on guns I.E the gun itself is evil.

So, do guns have a moral value? Is a gun in my hand the equivalent of a gun in the Hillside strangler’s hand?

Someone here posts about his daughter scaring off a rapist w/ a gun would the gun have had the same moral value if it had been in his hand?

[safeinOhio]

1. Stop following Ted Nugent's advise.

"You need to fix everybody in your lives to be absolutely pro-gun," Nugent said. "You need to talk guns all the time. You need to talk hunting all the time"

[RSillsbee]

4. I'm in the gun forum what should I talk about? Baseball?

BTW are you ever going to answer my question or are you going to keep rope-a-doping?

[safeinOhio]

6. That depends on how

many other forums and topics you post on?

[RSillsbee]

7. Rope A dope got it

See, now we're discussing sports.

[safeinOhio]

14. Cool.

Who are you picking, Pacquiao Mosley? Ex boxer here, I love the sport.

[safeinOhio]

15. Talking about boxing

Adrian Hernandez TKO 10 Gilberto Keb Baas
Miguel Roman TKO 7 Hugo Salas
Darren Barker W 12 Domenico Spada
April 29
Peter Quillin TKO 3 Jesse Brinkley
Carlos Molina TKO 7 Allen Conyers
Hylon Williams Jr. W 8 Marcos Herrera
Rances Barthelemy TKO 2 Rynell Griffin
Tim Coleman W 8 Sergio Rivera
Sirimongkol Singwancha KO 3 Mohammad Suka
Jose Nieves W 12 Cuauhtemoc Vargas
Carlos Takam TKO 6 Gbenga Oloukun
Jose Zuniga W 12 Ulises Lara
Alfonso Perez KO 2 Marco Lopez
Dejan Zlaticanin KO 5 Hoang Nguyen
Predrag Radosevic W 12 Jozsef Matolcsi
Panomroonglek Hadaogym W 12 Jecker Buhawe
April 27
Stephen Smith W 12 John Simpson
April 23
Vic Darchinyan W Tech Dec 5 Yonnhy Perez
DaVarryl Williamson TKO 7 Michael Marrone
Luis Ortiz TKO 2 Bert Cooper
Garrett Wilson W 12 Omar Sheika
Francisco Leal W 10 Robert Marroquin
Matt Korobov W 6 Marcos Primera
Tom Zbikowski KO 1 Blake Warner
Salvador Sanchez W 8 Jose Carmona
Chauncy Welliver TKO 5 Galen Brown
April 22
Breidis Prescott W 10 Bayan Jargal
Demetrius Andrade KO 2 Omar Bell
Kevin Rooney Jr. W 4 David Navarro
Guillermo Sanchez W 8 Eddie Ramirez
April 19
Muhammad Rachman KO 9 Kwanthai Sithmorseng
Poonsawat Kratingdaenggym W Tech Dec 6 Eric Barcelona
April 17
Chris John W 12 Daud Cino Yordan
Alex Leapai KO 3 Okhello Peter

[RSillsbee]

17. I boxed for several years before I got too old

unfortunately I don't have cable so I can't keep up who are you picking?

I went and looked at the stats I'm going w/ pacman

[X_Digger]

2. But but but.. guns are for killing! (or so I'm told..)

There does seem to be a point in a couple of recent threads where that gets trotted out as some kind of trump card.

I don't understand it, either.

[spin]

3. A firearm is a tool ...

and I use mine for target shooting much as a golfer uses his clubs. I also legally carry one concealed for self defense, but that is one firearm that I hope I never have to use for its prime purpose.

I determine how I will how and when I will use my firearms. Any evil or virtue that is committed or accomplished with my firearms is totally my choice and I have to assume responsibility for my actions.

[RSillsbee]

5. Isn't it you who posts about your daughter

Scaring off the rapist w/ the revolver? If so would you mind reposting in this thread?
TYPO

[spin]

19. My daughter stopped an intruder when we lived in Tampa.

The incident happen years ago when she was eighteen or nineteen.

She had returned home after work one night and just as she was getting ready to go to bed, the burglar alarm went off. She reset the alarm but several minutes later it went off again. The alarm switch on the sliding glass door in the kitchen would sometimes trip if it was a windy night and she suspected that was the problem.

Fortunately she realized that it hadn't been particular windy when she had let our 60 pound female black Labrador Retriever outside to do her business when she first returned home. She retrieved her favorite handgun which she often took to the range when she went shooting with me. This was a .45 acp target revolver, a S&W Model 25-2. It's the same size handgun as Dirty Harry's .44 magnum.



She held the revolver at her side when she entered the kitchen to reset the door and found an intruder halfway through the sliding glass door. He looked at my daughter and said, "I'm going to rape you."

She lifted the revolver and drew down on him. The sight of a 5' 2" girl who weighed under 100 pounds but had an enormous revolver in her hands caused him to run.

She called the police and they arrived just a few minutes later. She walked to the closed door and told the officers that she wanted to open the door but she had a gun in her hands and couldn't let go. One of the officers told her to keep her finger off the trigger and point the weapon at the floor and then open the door. She did and the officer led her to a couch, sat her down and gently pried her fingers off the grip. (The aftereffects of an adrenaline rush are hard to predict.)

The police searched the neighborhood but never did catch the intruder and he never returned.

I asked my daughter why she didn't shoot the intruder. She replied, "Because you told me never to shoot someone unless they were totally inside the house, he was only halfway."

I'm glad she didn't shoot the intruder. The last thing you ever want to do is to shoot someone as often you will suffer serious psychological problems even if you were totally in the right. The situation ended well with no one shot or injured and hopefully the intruder learned a valuable lesson. Today, quite possibly because my daughter had access to a weapon and the skill to use it, I have two grandsons to enjoy in my retirement.

[RSillsbee]

23. Clearly the gun was NOT a moral agent in this story.

The rapist had a penis (which emboldened his crime I'm sure) does this make all penises (Peni?) morally evil?

[spin]

25. If all penises were morally evil, children would be illegal. (n/t)

[Hoyt]

8. Question to me is -- Does someone parading around in public with a gun add value to society?

I think not.

[rrneck]

10. What qualifies you to make that evaluation? nt

[iverglas]

11. question to me is

what disqualifies anyone from making it?

The exercise of judgment is a fundamental part of being human.

[rrneck]

22. Some humans think they're

more qualified than others.

[NewMoonTherian]

28. Here's a point on which we agree.

Anyone is qualified to make the judgment. However, no one is entitled to impose their own judgment on others.

[rrneck]

29. It seems to me that

the greater the self perceived qualifications the more arbitrary the evaluation.

[iverglas]

32. but of course

Fortunately, where thee and me live, not just entitled: not able. ;)

Everyone is entitled to bring their judgment to the democratic discourse that should take place when such decisions need to be made.

To my mind, in fact, everyone has a moral responsibility todo that: to bring their judgment and their sincere, candid rationale for it, and be prepared to discuss it, and others', sincerely and candidly.

[NewMoonTherian]

33. And that's why we miss you when you leave!

:toast:

[friendly_iconoclast]

37. I, too, value sincerity and candor in political discourse.

I feel they are part and parcel with a concise, dispassionate writing style. A style free of prejudice and bigotry towards ones

interlocutors. These are virtues we should all be striving for...

[RSillsbee]

13. Does it take value away from society?

How? please answer specifically

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. Sometimes

- It is a form a protest, and an effective one
- If you live in a repressive area like California, it is the only way 99% of the citizens can carry a firearm.
- I do not see it as a smart thing to do if CCWs are readily available.

If you do not like open carry, then address that by supporting shall issue in your area and national CCW legislation

[cleanhippie]

24. Thank you for your input.

[Oneka]

31. depends who is

parading around in public with a gun, or several.

[rl6214]

39. It neither ads value nor takes it away

it is an in adamant object.

[WatsonT]

44. Rights are now to be limited based on a subjective judgement of that individuals

value to society?

Awesome, no way that could end up terrible or anything!

[iverglas]

9. who are these people who are invisible to me?

When I read some posts here I seems to me that some posters place moral value on guns I.E the gun itself is evil.

Maybe, whoever they are, they're just being polite and refraining from assigning that moral value to the person holding the gun ...

I'm just guessing! since I have no idea who they are and what they say.

Myself, I get quite offended when I'm told (and I'm constantly told, whenever I drop in) that I do things along that line.

Assigning agency or moral value to an object is a sign of only two things that I can think of.

Being a primitive (in the middle ages, objects were sometimes prosecuted for crimes) or being psychotic.

I like to think I'm neither one.

That being said, obviously people, all kinds of people, use sloppy speech. Cigarettes are bad, antibiotics are good, blah blah. Let's try not to get too exercised about a bit of fuzzy thinking.

[ManiacJoe]

12. Every now and then Iverglas hits one out of the park.

Welcome back.

[RSillsbee]

16. in the middle ages, objects were sometimes prosecuted for crimes

Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay What?

who are these people who are invisible to me?


According to DU rules I can't name them specically but they tend to do drive-by postings or advocate unilateral gun bans for all civilians.

Myself, I get quite offended when I'm told (and I'm constantly told, whenever I drop in) that I do things along that line.

Ypu have the floor , make your case. Do you believe that guns have a moral value? If so please explain how. If not please tell us why you reached that conclusion

[iverglas]

27. aargh

I don't live in medieval Europe and I'm not psychotic!

No, I don't ascribe moral value, or agency, to firearms, or tractors, or lampshades ...

;)

[RSillsbee]

36. AARGH !

Are you a pirate?

[Katya Mullethov]

30. Declared a deodand forfeited to God

They are still pulling that stunt , although they are not real big on the "having caused a persons death " part anymore .

See : State of Texas VS $17,000 cash

[iverglas]

42. AND one 1995 Chevrolet Camaro automobile!

http://law.justia.com/cases/texas/eighth-court-of-appeals/2002/61763.html

Seems an odd way to frame a forfeiture proceeding, but there ya go.

The bible didn't actually say that money is the root of all evil, but maybe that's what the state had in mind. ;)

Maybe the car's name was Christine.

[DWC]

20. None, Nada, Zip...

Only human beings have moral value - period.

How human beings interact with other human beings determines that value.

Semper Fi,

[onehandle]

21. Guns are people too. nt

[spin]

26. As are hammers, saws, golf clubs and fishing tackle. (n/t)

[tucsonlib]

34. If Guns Are "Inanimate Objects" And Have No Moral Value, Then....

....we need to stop labeling people as "Pro-Gun" or "Anti-Gun". How can anyone be pro- or anti- AN INANIMATE OBJECT? We don't divide those who oppose censorship and those who support censorship into "Pro-Book" and "Anti-Book" factions, do we? No. We'd sound like idiots.

Know what I mean?............

[PavePusher]

35. Pro-Choice (to own and/or carry) and Anti-Choice (no gun for you and you and you and...)

Will that work?

[friendly_iconoclast]

38. +1. Well played! n/t

[iverglas]

41. will that work?

Nah.

[iverglas]

40. well duh, eh? ;)

You won't catch moi saying such silly things!

[WatsonT]

43. Yep, it's a bizarre culture among the anti-gun types that places such a moral value on an object

"Oh but it's intent is evil so it's not like any other object!"

It's intent is nothing, it sits there motionless.

People can have intentions, guns merely occupy space when left to their own devices.