The turn American into a corrupt banana republic bill was defeated. Good!

[lawodevolution]

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/161037-judiciary-republicans-kill-bill-blocking-gun-sales-to-suspected-terrorists

Does it sound good that terrorists should not be allowed to own guns? So the anti-gun (anti-civil rights) groups are pushing to ban those on the terrorist watch list from owning guns. They want to give the government the ability to delete your civil rights just because they enter your name into a database of people who never were convicted of a crime and thus bypass the court system. I could get you on that list with just a phone call to homeland security or by just picking a fight with you in an airport. The next step will be to ban those on that list from voting and from communicating over the internet and phone. Should terrorists vote? Should they communicate with each other by phone? The list contains many people who were placed there because the government did not like their political views. This is what corrupt foreign countries do? In the USA we like to think of ourselves as more advanced than this. It’s a good thing this law failed, but the fact that it was considered in the first place shows how close this country is to becoming a corrupt craphole where they invent laws on the fly and take the rights away of anyone they want without the balance of power brought about by the courts. Our next move should be to remove this list from existence.

[whoneedstickets]

1. A fantastic result

We'll be able to hammer the GOP for being willing to sell guns to potential domestic terrorists in the election.

[lawodevolution]

3. like Ted Kennedy

none of the people on the watch list are convicted terrorists.

[PavePusher]

26. WTF?!

You did realise this is actually about an important Constitutional issue, right? Amendment 5?

[Drale]

2. Un'rec for asserting that all anti-gun folks are anti-civil rights

[lawodevolution]

4. owning guns is a civil right and if you go against it you are anti-civil rights

[msongs]

5. you must be in the well regulated militia? nt

[lawodevolution]

9. you mean the dependent clause

In english a dependent clause never governs an independent clause

"a well regulated militia being necessary to a free state" = dependent clause
"the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" = independent clause

so learn some english please

The 2A gives an INDIVIDUAL right to keep and bear arms.

any questions?

[izquierdista]

12. collective noun = individual?

Maybe your English is not so hot either.

[lawodevolution]

14. collective noun includes individuals. Individuals make up the collective noun.

So each individual is a member of "the people"
Giving the right to own guns to "the people" also includes giving individuals the right to own guns.

If you say the members of group a have the right to own guns, this obviously means that individuals within group a have the right to own guns.

[X_Digger]

18. Here you go..

See United States v. Verdugo-Urquidez

http://supreme.justia.com/us/494/259/case.html

"the people" seems to have been a term of art employed in select parts of the Constitution. The Preamble declares that the Constitution is ordained and established by "the People of the United States." The Second Amendment protects "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms," and the Ninth and Tenth Amendments provide that certain rights and powers are retained by and reserved to "the people." See also U.S. Const., Amdt. 1, ("Congress shall make no law . . . abridging . . . the right of the people peaceably to assemble"); Art. I, § 2, cl. 1 ("The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States"). While this textual exegesis is by no means conclusive, it suggests that "the people" protected by the Fourth Amendment, and by the First and Second Amendments, and to whom rights and powers are reserved in the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, refers to a class of persons who are part of a national community or who have otherwise developed sufficient connection with this country to be considered part of that community.

Fucking duh.

[beevul]

20. Its a restriction on governmental power.

It protects by forbidding government to do X.

No differentiation is made whether the government is only forbidden to do X in the case of individuals or a collective, and therefore both are protected.

[DissedByBush]

24. Funny how that's the only one of the bill of rights

That people like to think applies to only groups and not individuals.

You don't have freedom of speech, that's only for groups.

[GreenStormCloud]

31. Maybe your English isn't so hot.

In all places in the Constitution the phrase, "the people" is interpreted to mean the population composed of individuals.

Your a beating a dead horse.

[rl6214]

16. You must not be able to read and comprehend SC decisions

Or be able to understand what well regulated means and what the militia was when the document was written.

[GreenStormCloud]

30. Still beating that dead horse? It is nothing but a skeleton now. N/T

[Drale]

7. "If your not with us, your against us"

George Bush is that you?

[lawodevolution]

10. if you're against civil rights, you are not for civil rights. Has nothing to do with what bush said

if you are going up, you are not going down. simple logic. should not be too hard for you to understand.

[lawodevolution]

11. The logical fallacy of bush's statement is that if you are not for us, you could be neutral

or against us. Bush assumed that neutral did not exist.

You are either anti-gun, neutral or pro-gun. owning guns is a civil right defined as such by the supreme court
If you are anti-gun (anti-civil rights) you are therefore neither neutral nor pro-civil rights, so it is perfectly ok to say you are anti-civil rights (but you are also not neutral).

[rl6214]

17. If 'your' what is not with us 'your' what is against us?

[one-eyed fat man]

35. wait a minute

The secret "don't know how you got on them and no way to get off them" no fly lists are horrible perversions and despicable end runs around the Constitution pepetrated by those vile RW Fascists Bush and Cheny, but they are just the most wonderful, forward thinking crime fighting, terror terminating and generally a great idea as long as you get to use them against groups of people you dislike?

Ok, got it....

hippo crate

[murphyj87]

13. That is.............

That is one of the most egregious things wrong with the United States and one of the reasons that the United States is so hated. A right to bear arms of any kind makes the United States a banana republic, and anyone who thinks a modern nation should have a right to bear arms belongs in a banana republic. The United States needs a right to health care and a total repeal of the second amendment. You have had a banana republic so long as you have a right to bear arms of any kind. In the meantime, until the United States comes back into at least the 20th century, let alone the 21st, we'll provide health care to the millions of Americans who stream across the border into Canada because they are denied the health care they need in the United States by an insurance company bureaucrat. You should keep those insurance company bureaucrats busy confiscating guns instead. That way they'd not be killing 45,000 Americans a year by denying them health care if they were kept busy that way.

[lawodevolution]

15. It's time for Canada to join the 21st century and stop infringing on law-abiding citizens

right to self defense and it will happen no matter how many rude Canadians post rude attacks against the US on the internet.

[RC]

25. Ever been to Canada? I have.

Their Border Patrol is better trained and less paranoid than ours. And do at least as good a job.

I even felt safer up there knowing concealed carry did not exist. A whole lot less likely in Canada, that some nut would be deciding that shooting people would be great way to vent his frustration just because it was his right to own a gun.

In short Canada is more civilized than we are down here. They have grown past the Old West mentality where people had to be their own law, Too many of us USA'ns have not.

I really don't understand the mentality of why some people think they need to carry a weapon to feel like a man. I see it as insecurity. You want to feel more secure, learn Karate or some other form of self defense.

[gejohnston]

28. even if you use karate, the criminal is still just as likely to have a gun

and the Crown will prosecute you for assault. I never people with understood irrational fears who also help the drug gangs afford their guns and then blame me for the violence.

[beevul]

29. If you stopped assuming that "people think they need to carry a weapon to feel like a man"...

If you stopped assuming that "people think they need to carry a weapon to feel like a man", that might help a little.

[GreenStormCloud]

33. My wife carries concealed.

She isn't doing it to feel like a man. She has twice almost been mugged and used her gun to save her life. No shots fired. Would be mugger ran away.

[spin]

37. Concealed carry does exist in Canada ...

criminals do it all the time.

You don't have to live in fear of a person who has a concealed carry permit but you might be wise to practice "situational awareness" against criminals who may use their concealed weapons to ruin your entire day. It really doesn't matter whether or not you are in Canada or the United States, criminals are FAR more dangerous than licensed people who carry concealed. Your chances of being shot by a person with a concealed weapons permit in Florida are less than your chances of getting hit by lightning.

Many years ago I took a jujitsu class from an instructor who was a 8th degree black belt in Judo and also held black belts in Karate and Jujitsu. He once said that a man with a .45 auto who knew how to use it proficiently was a 9th degree black belt. We were taught some very effective techniques for disarming an attacker who had a gun or a knife at close range. If the attacker was 10 or more feet away, we were taught to do a judo roll out and then use the close range techniques. My instructor said that the chances of this working was 50/50 at the best.

Many people here love to play amateur psychologist. To say that people carry a weapon "to feel like a man" is at the best foolish stereotyping and at the worst the projection of your own fear and feelings of inadequacy on those who legally carry concealed.

[PavePusher]

39. You seem to ascribe only one (erroneous) reason to carrying a sidearm.

But Karate is O.K. with you.

What. Evah....

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kurska]

21. Harper is going to pass a slew of pro gun right legsilation and he got a majority.

Maybe you DON'T speak for every single Canadian everywhere?

[lawodevolution]

22. sorry about my broad brush, many canadians I find hating on the states are rude, but most canadians

are nice. I took a girl from Vancouver to the range a while back. She had a good time.

[friendly_iconoclast]

23. The Commonwealth Anti-US Squad is alert and on the job. Accuracy is optional.

I notice that certain persons from Anglophone countries seem to have a compulsion to lecture us Yanks about our perceived

shortcomings. I don't take it too much to heart, as the poor dears seem unable to control themselves. They are no more

to be held responsible for their utterances than people with Tourette's Syndrome.

You have had a banana republic so long as you have a right to bear arms of any kind.

That would make Switzerland a banana republic, wouldn't it?

In the meantime, until the United States comes back into at least the 20th century, let alone the 21st, we'll provide health care to the millions of Americans who stream across the border into Canada because they are denied the health care they need in the United States by an insurance company bureaucrat.

Cool! I might need a hip replacement in a few years. Glad to know the good citizens of Canada will provide one for me.


I have a question for you: Where do all the medical refugees hang out in Halifax and Sydney after they walk/stagger/are wheeled off

the ferries from Bar Harbor and Portland? I've never seen any news accounts of them, but since you assure us 'millions of Americans

stream across the border' in search of health care your news media must be censored, amirite?

[gejohnston]

27. I say we have both and riddle me this

Vermont will soon be the first US state to have a single payer system, just like SK did in the 1960s under Tommy Douglas. You know what country has the laxest gun laws? VT!

[oneshooter]

32. I don't believe that you have a 1st Amendment up there either.

So shut the fuck up and eat snow.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[rrneck]

34. We're glad you have your

wonderful health care. Good for you. Of course, you only have it because we have allowed you to have it.

You're welcome.

[earcandle]

6. Thanks for the heads up.

[spin]

8. Richard Nixon would have loved the terrorist watch list ...

Nixon's Enemies List

Nixon’s Enemies List is the informal name of what started as a list of President of the United States Richard Nixon’s major political opponents compiled by Charles Colson, written by George T. Bell<1> (assistant to Colson, special counsel to the White House), and sent in memorandum form to John Dean on September 9, 1971. The list was part of a campaign officially known as “Opponents List” and “Political Enemies Project.” The list became public knowledge when Dean mentioned during hearings with the Senate Watergate Committee that a list existed containing those whom the president did not like. Journalist Daniel Schorr, who happened to be on the list, managed to obtain copies of it later that day.<2>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon%27s_Enemies_List

[lawodevolution]

36. But so many here love the bush list now. It shows their true values

[shadowrider]

38. Yea. THAT LIST IS A

CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATION. CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATION. IT'S UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

"Oh, we're gonna use it to restrict who can own or have guns? COOL!!!!!!!!!!!"