John Thune to Make An Attempt a National Concealed Carry in Next Few Weeks.

[GreenStormCloud]

There is an interview with him in which he discusses his strategy for this bill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEeFDbnb0Lg

A key part of his plan is support from Democrats in gun-friendly states and mobilizing grass roots support.

[sellitman]

1. Less government?

States rights?

Oh never mind.....

[Glassunion]

12. How will this bill grow government or violate state's rights?

‘(b) A person carrying a concealed handgun under this section shall be permitted to carry a handgun subject to the same conditions or limitations that apply to residents of the State who have permits issued by the State or are otherwise lawfully allowed to do so by the State.

‘(c) In a State that allows the issuing authority for licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms to impose restrictions on the carrying of firearms by individual holders of such licenses or permits, a firearm shall be carried according to the same terms authorized by an unrestricted license or permit issued to a resident of the State.

‘(d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preempt any provision of State law with respect to the issuance of licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms.’.

[slackmaster]

21. States don't have rights. States have powers. Only people have rights.

HTH

[FSogol]

2. Unrec-ed for promoting Republicans. n/t

[eqfan592]

4. There's a big difference between supporting specific legislation and supporting specific...

...politicians.

[Glassunion]

11. Rec-ed for promoting Democrats...

Jason Altmire
Joe Baca
John Barrow
Sanford Bishop
Dan Boren
Leonard Boswell
Dennis Cardoza
Ben Chandler
Steve Cohen
Jerry Costello
Mark Critz
Henry Cuellar
Peter DeFazio
John Dingell
Joe Donnelly
Raymond Green
Martin Heinrich
Tim Holden
Ronald Kind
Larry Kissell
Rick Larsen
Ben Luján
Jim Matheson
Mike McIntyre
Michael Michaud
William Owens
Collin Peterson
Nick Rahall
Mike Ross
Timothy Ryan
Kurt Schrader
Terri Sewell
Heath Shuler
Timothy Walz

All of the above are co-sponsoring the bill.

[RSillsbee]

20. Rec-ced for promoting Civil Liberties NT

[Ragnarok]

3. State based...

...reciprocity would be great, but I have no interest in a Fedgov carry permit. Our Minnesota permit doesn't need Fedgov neutering, averaging or reigning in.

[eqfan592]

5. I have similar feelings on it.

Though in a way, a law mandating reciprocity of concealed carry permits would, in effect, set all permit standards to the same level anyway, which would be the level of the easiest to acquire non-resident permit.

[eqfan592]

6. After watching the video....

....it seems that the idea isn't to get rid of individual states ability to set their own standards, but rather to create a national minimum standard that all states have to be at, and from there states are free to make it even easier to acquire if they choose. As well as a "framework" for reciprocity. At least, I think that's how it will work.... :P

[Ragnarok]

7. It will be interesting...

...to see how it plays out. I'm concerned that some in our party, who still live mentally in the AWB period between 1994 and 2004, will either block it or amend it to the point of turning it into a restrictive law rather than an enabling law. Were it to pass, I'd personally hold off on getting any Federal equivalency permit, or whatever, until after at least the first few years to see if any abuses occur.

[eqfan592]

8. Agreed on all points.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

[jpak]

9. John Thune (R-moran) - more Repubican Gungeon Luv

yup

[X_Digger]

10. Richard Nixon (R-Moran) -- fuck that EPA shit, right? n/t

[TheWraith]

48. Or Dick Cheney's support of gay marriage.

Clearly gay marriage is evil if Cheney supports it, right?

Even the most lunatic of crazy bastards is on the right side about something sooner or later.

[GreenStormCloud]

16. Lot of Democrats supporting it to. N/T

[jpak]

23. Name him

yup

[DonP]

27. See post 11 for the lengthy list of Dems

[spin]

53. Post #11 proves that not all Democrats hate RKBA as much as you fantasize...

Must ruin your entire day.

Yup

[Glassunion]

13. Based solely on the number of co-sponsors this bill will pass.

218 needed, the bill has 241 co-sponsors.

The bill is quite simple and contains only 843 words. It only takes about 2 minutes to read the entire text.

[virginia mountainman]

14. The anti's that wish for more gun control, should pay particular attention to your post ..

Especially the numbers contained in it, it makes it plain the political reality, that gun control, as a matter of Federal law, is a complete NON-STARTER...

All their begging, pleading, vacillating, and lying is doing nothing but selling lots more guns, and drumming up support for us.

[jpak]

15. How many republicans?

most if not all

yup

[GreenStormCloud]

17. And lots of Democrats too. Does that give you indigestion? N/T

[jpak]

24. Numbers please - empiricism and all that

yup

[DonP]

43. It's been posted twice - you keep ignoring it

(Per Glassunion)

Jason Altmire
Joe Baca
John Barrow
Sanford Bishop
Dan Boren
Leonard Boswell
Dennis Cardoza
Ben Chandler
Steve Cohen
Jerry Costello
Mark Critz
Henry Cuellar
Peter DeFazio
John Dingell
Joe Donnelly
Raymond Green
Martin Heinrich
Tim Holden
Ronald Kind
Larry Kissell
Rick Larsen
Ben Luján
Jim Matheson
Mike McIntyre
Michael Michaud
William Owens
Collin Peterson
Nick Rahall
Mike Ross
Timothy Ryan
Kurt Schrader
Terri Sewell
Heath Shuler
Timothy Walz

All of the above are co-sponsoring the bill.

[Glassunion]

18. Yes most... But not all.

[RSillsbee]

19. I hate to say it but I really don't want this bill to pass

I'd rather the Feral Goverment keep it's grubby little mits of my CHP. I'd rather we just continue the trend towards constitutional carry we have now.

[Glassunion]

22. I agree to a point.

After reading the text of the bill, I do not see how this would really effect how any state grants and executes permits. There is nothing in the text that grants any power to the federal government. This bill would effectively just require that the states recognize the licenses of residents from other states.

What kind of Federal interference do you see occurring, given the text of the bill? http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr822ih/pdf/BILLS-112hr822ih.pdf

[DonP]

26. Two things are going to be universally accepted in the US in the next few years

Gay marriage and concealed carry.

I had this conversation with my daughter and her friends and she pointed it out as something she and her age group (mid 30's and younger) just accept it as inevitable and normal.

The funny part we both realized is they both have a hard core, intolerant and largely ignorant group fighting against it and they will both be steamrolled by popular acceptance. Once it's established they can grumble and complain about it, but it will never go back to the way it was.

[ileus]

28. I hope you're right on both accounts.

[jpak]

25. I hope the feds DO regulate CHP - and make it very difficult to carry

yup

[Blown330]

30. Apparently the little world...

...in your head is quite different from reality the rest of us live in. So'k, love seeing you rant about the "backlash" and every week gun rights make more progress.

[X_Digger]

31. There's no 'regulation' in Thune's proposal.

So if that's what you're after, keep looking.

And good luck, LOL!!

[ileus]

29. Hopefully it won't pass, while part of it is needed, you know how the grabbers would twist

it to destroy what little freedom we have managed to expand the past few decades.

[X_Digger]

34. I'm ambivalent, but I can't find a reason not to like this..

As Glassunion has posted the link to the bill itself- it's tiny, as these things go- Give it a read.

The government isn't gaining control over permits- it just says that permits are reciprocal. Unless there's a 'next step' that isn't clear at this point, I'm at a lack of substantive objections. It doesn't say that your permit has to be from your state of residence and it doesn't set a minimum standard.

[DWC]

32. National reciposity - Yes ! National registration - NO ! n/t

[ileus]

33. We'd never see any positive points..only stuff like Level II holsters and FMJ's only rules.

100gr max projectiles, with 5 grain max loads. 5 round magazine limits, 3 manual safeties, 240 hours of community service in the local morgue, 42 pound triggers, no night sites, flashing strobes, GPS tracking, their list would go on and on...

[DWC]

35. I disagree

80 million pi**ed-off gun owners makes one He**-of-a voting block.

Semper Fi,

[ileus]

36. as hoyte always sez.....almost 300,000 million non-pokers...

will sit on their hands and not give a flying-F what restrictions are placed on people who CC/OC. That includes several million criminals that will smile all the way to the bank with their new found freedoms.

I know a bunch of hunters that don't care about their Self-Defense rights.

[DWC]

37. Some hunters may not care about their Self-Defense rights

until the government attempts to take those rights away from them - again.

Abuse my rights once, shame on you. Abuse my rights a 2nd time, shame on me.

Semper Fi,

[ileus]

38. +1 I hope I'm wrong personally...we're just now getting where we should be.

[SteveM]

45. All the hunters I know DO care about their self-defense rights. Including this one.

[Glassunion]

39. According to the text of the bill here is how it would work for me.

1. I am a PA resident and hold a PA permit.
2. I work in NJ and the vast majority of my family lives in NJ.
3. Currently I cannot carry in NJ as the state(NJ) does not recognize my permit.
4. Currently my state does not recognize NJ permits as well. However, a NJ resident can apply for and receive our permit on a shall issue basis.

If the law is passed, here is what will change.
1. NJ would have to recognize my permit and PA would have to recognize a NJ permit.
2. I'm confused as to whether or not NJ would have to recognize a non-resident PA permit.
3. I would have to purchase different ammo as NJ deems the hollow-point illegal.
4. I would have to limit my magazine capacity to 15 rounds as NJ's limits magazine size.

So, even though I could legally carry in the state, I would absolutely have to abide by NJ's specific laws.

[X_Digger]

42. If I understand section 926(D)(a) (as amended)..

It would allow carry in NJ with a non-resident PA permit..

(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof, related to the carrying or transportation of firearms, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that—
(1) has a statute that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms;

Let me string those together.. "a person...who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State...may carry a concealed handgun".

Notice it says "a State", not the person's state of residence.

[onehandle]

40. Wow. Republicans are really popular on DU!

[eqfan592]

41. Not in the least.

All the dems supporing this bill, such as...

Jason Altmire
Joe Baca
John Barrow
Sanford Bishop
Dan Boren
Leonard Boswell
Dennis Cardoza
Ben Chandler
Steve Cohen
Jerry Costello
Mark Critz
Henry Cuellar
Peter DeFazio
John Dingell
Joe Donnelly
Raymond Green
Martin Heinrich
Tim Holden
Ronald Kind
Larry Kissell
Rick Larsen
Ben Luján
Jim Matheson
Mike McIntyre
Michael Michaud
William Owens
Collin Peterson
Nick Rahall
Mike Ross
Timothy Ryan
Kurt Schrader
Terri Sewell
Heath Shuler
Timothy Walz

...well, now that's a different story. ;)

[friendly_iconoclast]

44. Some here are simply unwilling to admit that a slew of Democrats are co-sponsors.

I suspect because that inconvenient truth contradicts one of their articles of faith...

[SteveM]

47. But one must open eyes, ears and minds to understand the story. nt

[SteveM]

46. You desperately keep trying. But you always thoroughly fail.

[Hoopla Phil]

49. I'm likeing this bill but have a problem with some things that it does not cover.

As has been pointed out. While my Texas CHL would be recognized in New Jersey, WHAT I carry would get me thrown in jail. (I carry a Colt officer's ACP with seven round mags loaded with 117gr Aguila hollow point I.Q. ammo) A lot of research would have to still be done to stay legal. I'd like to see a section of the bill to try to correct this possible problem.

[X_Digger]

50. Well, that's the case now, anyway..

If a state has a magazine limit, or ammo limitations, but is reciprocal with Texas, you'd still have to follow the rules that other CHL holders in that state do.

And I agree with that, frankly. It's up to the state to set its standards. I may not like it, but it's not my state.

Similar issues have come up with regards to driver's licenses and young people / young people driving at night. Or window tint. Or bumper height. Or any number of differences between the states' motor vehicle codes.

[Glassunion]

52. Personally I would rather the federal government stay out of setting any sort of standard.

My best guess, is that if this becomes law, you would be able to either go online or head to your local gun-shop where you could print out or pickup a set of flip cards outlining specific state laws.

Sort of an abbreviated version of www.handgunlaw.us

[lawodevolution]

51. I'm wondering how this will work out for a Texas CHL in a state like California

They have gun registration. If I visit, can I bring my conceal gun (that follows their idiotic regulations) without registering it? If one spends a lot of time there how much time would have to go by before having to register? If I can't bring my gun because I would have to register it, shouldn't htat be a good reason to strike down the registration scheme in court?

[X_Digger]

54. Is their CHL tied to registered guns though?

Or are those separate statutes? If separate, I'd think they wouldn't apply.

[oneshooter]

55. I believe that the California CHL has listed on the back the

firearm(s) that are allowed for that person to CC. Make, model and serial # are listed.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[X_Digger]

56. Then that does pose an interesting quandry. n/t

[Hoopla Phil]

57. I'm reminded of a Texas friend of mine that got pulled over in California.

The police asked for license, registration, and insurance. My friend provided license and insurance as Texans are not required to carry registration paperwork in their vehicles. The officer asked again, my friend responded, it's Texas registered, we're not required. . . "but" the officer interrupted. "hey, I don't know what to tell ya, run me in if it's that big a deal to ya". The officer called a supervisor and let the matter drop.

[X_Digger]

58. Well, it doesn't work for window tint, bumper height, mud flaps, etc..

I can't imagine it would work for CHL, either.

[oneshooter]

59. In Texas the registration is on a sticker on the front windshield,

Next to the State Inspection sticker.

[Hoopla Phil]

60. Correct, there is also the form 130-u (or white sheet) that is the registration paperwork.

Privately registered cars are not required to carry that paper work. Commercial vehicles have the sticker on the windshield and are also required to keep a copy of the white sheet in the vehicle as well.

[Hoyt]

61. Oh Hell Yea -- let's throw our support to TBagger Thune.