knives and other stabby/beating things...

[TexasMexican]

So what weapons (other than firearms) do you carry on or near your person during the course of the day?

Myself I keep a knife on my keychain and a heavy steel green laser pointer (not really a weapon but I'm sure if I had to I could beat someone in the head with it). I also keep a larger fixed bladed knife in my car.

I also keep a machete under my bed. :P

I'm particularily interested in what the anti-gunners have to say about people carrying weapons other than guns.

[MikeyMoore]

1. Why do you need to carry anything at all?

Are you that scared?

[TexasMexican]

2. So knives and laser pointers are evil?

:P

[MikeyMoore]

5. Yes they are dangerous

Unless you are using it for a specific purpose, you shouldn't be carrying knives or lasers either.

[TexasMexican]

6. But I need to have something to defend myself with when guns are banned...

I figure I can blind the bad guy with my laser, then I stick him with the knife then I use the laser pointer to bludgen him to death.

[MikeyMoore]

9. That's sick

How can you live thinking about such violence all the time?

[TexasMexican]

11. Its easy...

thinking != violence.

I can think up all kinds of things but I (unlike some fucked up white kids) realize there is a difference between fantasy and reality so it doesnt bother me.

[MikeyMoore]

12. Reality is violence begets violence

Non-violence is the only way to end the cycle.

[TexasMexican]

14. So ending reality is the answer?

After all "reality is violence, and all it does is begets violence."

Well according to you anyways.

[MikeyMoore]

15. No, stopping people from having dangerous weapons is

Starting with guns...

[TexasMexican]

16. Are you going to remove thier hands too...

maybe thier brains also.

After all without hands or brains people wouldnt be fasion these evil tools. There would be less violence in the world too.

[MikeyMoore]

17. Guns make it easier to kill

You are 43 times more likely to be hurt by your gun than using it for defense.

[TexasMexican]

20. Nice but this isnt a thread about guns

so please quit spamming it with gun stuff.

How many more times am I likely to be stabbed to death by with my own knife or killed with my own club. Those statistics might be more relevant to this thread, but just barely because I never asked for statistics in the first place I asked what kind of weapons you carry on or near your person on a daily basis.

[MikeyMoore]

22. Like I said

You shouldn't be carrying any weapons at all.

[TexasMexican]

24. So what do you suggest I do about...

my hands, my arms, my legs, my feet, and my mind.

All can be used as weapons.

[MikeyMoore]

26. Nothing

Anything else makes it easier to kill and is unnecessary and makes it more dangerous for everyone else.

[slackmaster]

30. But, but, but

I usually use my Buck knife for opening packages and peeling fruit. Its status as a defensive weapon is secondary.

Are you suggesting that I not carry a highly useful tool because it could be used to kill?

:freak:

[DoNotRefill]

34. You HORRIBLE FRUIT KILLER!!!!!

Fruit has rights too!!!! "For the carrots, it IS the Holocaust!" :silly:

[slackmaster]

36. That orange came right for me!

I know it was attacking!



http://www.southparkstudios.com/down/download.html?file=/media/sounds/206/sp206_coming.wav

[DoNotRefill]

38. dude, it's the grapefruits ya gotta be careful about...

they're ORNERY, and will kill you given half a chance!!!! Personally, whenever I see a grapefruit coming towards me, I shoot it. Better safe than sorry, as my momma used to say!!!

[slackmaster]

39. I have to avoid grapefruit completely

Doctor's orders. I'm taking Lipitor to control cholesterol. Grapefruit has some weird alien enzyme that enhances Lipitor's statin effects to the point where it causes liver damage.

I can shoot 'em but I can't eat 'em. A 165 grain soft-point fired from a .308 Winchester blows up a grapefruit real good.

[alwynsw]

44. Tomatoes are the worst!

Didn't you guys ever see the movie?

[Wickerman]

45. Attack of the Killer tomatoes???

that rocked!

[alwynsw]

77. Got my own copy - OF COURSE!

But it's really great on a double bill at the drive in with "The Cars That Eat People".

[DoNotRefill]

31. ROTFLMAO!!!!

The misuse of Kellermann's statistic rides again!!!!!

[DoNotRefill]

29. violence begets violence?

depends on if you're the one who starts the violence, or the one who finishes it.

You should never start violence. If you do, odds are pretty good that the other person is going to respond in kind. If somebody else starts the violence, then proportionate violence is a justifiable response. And once you end it, the violence is over.

I've seen very few people who started something violent and got killed for their trouble react violently after they are dead. Your mileage may vary.

[alwynsw]

43. Tell that one to 6 million Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, and Jehovah's

Witnesses Yup. Nonviolence surely worked for them! Just ask Anne Frank. She'll tell ya!

eduted bekuz I kan't spel

[LibLabUK]

47. Huh?

The Germans overran the Polish and French armies in a matter of days... what good would have a few pistols or rifles been to the 6,000,000 Jews, Gypsies etc?

Except maybe getting more of them killed.

You really are fully absorbed into the fantasy aren't you.

[DoNotRefill]

56. You owe me a new keyboard....

because of the nostril-delivered lemonade that's on it now due to your post.

Excuse me if I'm out of line here, but considering that the jews and gypsies were virtually EXTERMINATED throughout Nazi occupied Europe, what HARM could it have done them to be armed? At least they'd have been able to take some of the Nazi bastards with them. You make it sound like the Holocaust would have been WORSE if the Jews had been armed. That's preposterous.

I'd also like to remind you of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. The jews in a walled-in enclave, waiting to be sent to the gas chambers, surrounded by guard towers with machineguns, equipped with fewer than 20 guns at the start, held off the Nazis for LONGER than Poland's army did.

[LibLabUK]

59. Err..

"I'd also like to remind you of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. The jews in a walled-in enclave, waiting to be sent to the gas chambers, surrounded by guard towers with machineguns, equipped with fewer than 20 guns at the start, held off the Nazis for LONGER than Poland's army did."

The Germans captured 9 rifles, 59 pistols, and several hundred grenades, explosives, and mines. Among the Germans and their collaborators, the stated losses were 16 dead and 85 wounded.- Encylcopaedia Britannica

[mosin]

60. the point...you're missing it

The Germans captured 9 rifles, 59 pistols, and several hundred grenades, explosives, and mines.

What did they start off with, and what did they capture along the way? No one claimed they only ended up with "fewer than 20 guns."

[LibLabUK]

61. No.. I didn't miss the point.

I was contradicting the claim "They lasted longer than the polish army...with fewer than 20 rifles"...

[FeebMaster]

62. They did last longer than the polish army.

According to your cite the Germans only confiscated 9 rifles which is of course fewer than 20. I don't know if I'd take the Germans' word on what they confiscated and what their losses were though.

[LibLabUK]

64. Well...

"According to your cite the Germans only confiscated 9 rifles which is of course fewer than 20."

They only recovered 9... but considering they were using flamethrowers and mortars that isn't suprising. The fact is they didn't just have rifles.. they had grenades and explosives too.

They were also defending in an urban environment, which works in their favour. In the end though it made very little difference, the deportations went ahead during and after the uprising.


"I don't know if I'd take the Germans' word on what they confiscated and what their losses were though."

If that's from reports rather than propaganda then it's most likely very accurate... They kept meticulous records of even their most horrendous activities.

[FeebMaster]

65. Of course it didn't make a difference.

"They only recovered 9... but considering they were using flamethrowers and mortars that isn't suprising. The fact is they didn't just have rifles.. they had grenades and explosives too."

Where do you think they got those rifles and explosives?


"They were also defending in an urban environment, which works in their favour. In the end though it made very little difference, the deportations went ahead during and after the uprising."

Of course it didn't make a difference in the end, they were trapped inside the ghetto. Does that mean they should have just rolled over and died? Meekly gotten into the trains and rode to their deaths?

[iverglas]

66. all those apples and oranges

Of course it didn't make a difference in the end, they were trapped inside the ghetto. Does that mean they should have just rolled over and died? Meekly gotten into the trains and rode to their deaths?

Can't we keep things straight, just once in a while? And maybe, in so doing, avoid attributing offensive ideas to people who never had or expressed them?

Who was talking about what anyone SHOULD do or have done?

The question was what would have happened if they had done it.

The FACT is that the German military obliterated armies (and killed tens of thousands of civilians in London alone, from the air), and that there just isn't much that can be done against that kind of power once it's been achieved, without bigger and better armies.

Surely the lesson to be learned from it all is not that we oughta make sure we have a musket in the cupboard in case they come for us, it's that we oughta do everything we can to ensure that they never come for us. When they do, it's already too damned late. Plan to go down shooting the fascists if you like; me, I plan to make sure the fascists don't have the guns to shoot me. It just seems so much more sensible, and such a better guarantee of actually staying alive.

[mosin]

68. "a musket in the cupboard"

Surely the lesson to be learned from it all is not that we oughta make sure we have a musket in the cupboard in case they come for us, it's that we oughta do everything we can to ensure that they never come for us. When they do, it's already too damned late. Plan to go down shooting the fascists if you like; me, I plan to make sure the fascists don't have the guns to shoot me. It just seems so much more sensible, and such a better guarantee of actually staying alive.

You pick your lessons; I'll pick mine.

While working to make sure there is never a need is always the first choice, there's no guarantee of success. If the "fascists" do "come for us," they are almost certainly going to have guns, regardless of your efforts. So I do believe in having a "musket in the cupboard" if it gets to that point.

[iverglas]

69. please do explain yourself

If the "fascists" do "come for us," they are almost certainly going to have guns, regardless of your efforts.

To what "efforts" do you refer? Precise description, please.

[mosin]

71. "efforts"

To the efforts to which you previously referred:

Surely the lesson to be learned from it all is not that we oughta make sure we have a musket in the cupboard in case they come for us, it's that we oughta do everything we can to ensure that they never come for us. When they do, it's already too damned late. Plan to go down shooting the fascists if you like; me, I plan to make sure the fascists don't have the guns to shoot me. It just seems so much more sensible, and such a better guarantee of actually staying alive.

[iverglas]

73. oh good grief

One does just have to make sure one spells everything out, doesn't one?

I'd been talking about how the Nazis had the power that put them in charge of the armies and guns. They didn't get that power by using guns, let's not forget.

When I talk about doing everything we can do to ensure that they never come for us, I'm talking about making sure they never come to the position of power they need in order to do that. I'm talking about making sure they don't get elected or have the opportunity to otherwise usurp power.

When I say "I plan to make sure the fascists don't have the guns to shoot me", I'm saying that that I plan to make sure that fascists don't get elected to positions of power that would give them access to the guns they would need to consolidate and expand their base of power. The way the Nazis did.

So to say

If the "fascists" do "come for us," they are almost certainly going to have guns, regardless of your efforts.

is to entirely miss the entire point. My efforts aren't directed to making sure that any fascists that come for us don't have guns, for pity's sake; they're directed to making sure that fascists don't come for us, which they could only do if they had the power that gave them access to the guns. Guns in hands of fascists = symptom/effect, not cause, of problem.

Yes, if they came for us, they would have guns. Duh. WHEN THEY HAVE THE GUNS, it's too damned late. They've already acquired the power that gave them access to the guns. Denying them that power is the solution, not hoarding ammunition. Because they're going to have bigger and better guns than you have, no matter how you slice it.

[DoNotRefill]

84. respectfully, Iverglas....

Your argument is very similar to the design philosophy of the Titanic. They did everything they could think of to make it unsinkable. When the unthinkable happened, people died because there weren't enough lifeboats.

From my perspective, it's good to make the ship unsinkable, but just in case, put plenty of lifeboats on board too.

[DoNotRefill]

86. Actually, there was a large element of the use of force in the...

"I'd been talking about how the Nazis had the power that put them in charge of the armies and guns. They didn't get that power by using guns, let's not forget."

Nazis rising to power. Remember the Freikorps and SA? Streetbattles between the Nazis and the Communists were fairly common. Some of them did indeed involve guns. Remember Horst Wessel?

When the Nazis first rose to power, their opponents were armed. They meekly surrendered their weapons, and were shipped off to camps, where most of them died. We'll never know what would have happened if the Left in Germany had risen in the early 1930's, since they didn't, but it's VERY hard to see how their rising could have had a WORSE result for them and the world than staying put did.

[FeebMaster]

72. I thought the lesson to be learned from

the Warsaw Ghetto uprising was that while armies, especially well trained and equipped ones, are generally good at fighting other armies, they aren't very good at fighting small pockets of resistors even if those resistors are completely enclosed in a section of a city.

You can see the same thing happening today in Iraq, although the resistors there are hardly enclosed and have much better equipment than the resistance in the Warsaw Ghetto.


Surely the lesson to be learned from it all is not that we oughta make sure we have a musket in the cupboard in case they come for us, it's that we oughta do everything we can to ensure that they never come for us. When they do, it's already too damned late. Plan to go down shooting the fascists if you like; me, I plan to make sure the fascists don't have the guns to shoot me. It just seems so much more sensible, and such a better guarantee of actually staying alive.


We agree on something, I'm shocked. I often chuckle when people say when the government comes for them or for their guns they'll be ready. I always feel like saying to them "Hey buddy. If you wait until they come for you then you've waited a little too long." I'm sure it would only fall on deaf ears though.

I wonder how you plan to keep guns out of the hands of fascists though. Voting against them doesn't always work. Disarming civilians certainly isn't going to do it and I don't think you're going to have much luck convincing the government to disarm itself. It still doesn't hurt to have that musket in the cupboard, just in case.

[iverglas]

75. the question

while armies, especially well trained and equipped ones, are generally good at fighting other armies, they aren't very good at fighting small pockets of resistors even if those resistors are completely enclosed in a section of a city.

Under what conceivable circumstances would those resisters have WON -- have NOT DIED? Can we think of ANY such circumstances? Maybe if they'd held out until 1945, living on fresh air? That's still the point. Unless the landscape is littered with private armies, there's no victory going to happen in situations like this. And I just prefer not to live in that kind of landscape. People in places like Congo and Colombia will vouch for my wisdom.

I wonder how you plan to keep guns out of the hands of fascists though. Voting against them doesn't always work.

Well, you do kind of have to rely on your fellow voters to vote against them too. Just another bit of that collective/individual conundrum. Individuals don't/can't run the collective, no matter how much they'd like to and how hard they try. We all just contribute.

Disarming civilians certainly isn't going to do it ..

And in fact has nothing at all to do with it, of course; no connection to this particular topic. Whistling Dixie and walking backwards isn't going to do it either. No logical connection, no reason to bring any of them up.

... and I don't think you're going to have much luck convincing the government to disarm itself.

And I wouldn't really want to just at the moment. As long as the government is at least nominally under public control, I don't have much of a problem with it being armed.

A liberal democracy with a somewhat regulated capitalist economy isn't exactly my idea of utopia, but it also isn't exactly something ripe for the picking by a Franco or Hitler or Kim, or likely to become such a thing without a lot of people missing a lot of opportunities to prevent it happening.

Thatcher and Bush (yeah, to date) are one thing. Franco and Hitler and Kim really are another.

I often chuckle when people say when the government comes for them or for their guns they'll be ready. I always feel like saying to them "Hey buddy. If you wait until they come for you then you've waited a little too long."

Indeed we do agree, at least on the outcome. And the unfortunate thing is that maybe people like the Warsaw uprisers really didn't wait too long. Some things just simply can't be done by an individual or a few individuals; they call for collective action on a large scale. People like buddy were and are either too stupid to figure it out until someone else got hurt and they saw the writing on the wall, or just didn't/don't care when it was happening to someone else.

I can't resist. First they came for ...

It's those "first" ones that have to be seen as problematic. Once they come for them, it's certainly too late for them and there's a good chance it's too late for everybody else.

Nonetheless, I'm not seeing this happening anywhere nearby in the near future. Although if Bush is elected again, one never knows. An important opportunity to avoid being come for would certainly have been missed.

[FeebMaster]

76. re: the question

"Under what conceivable circumstances would those resisters have WON -- have NOT DIED? Can we think of ANY such circumstances? Maybe if they'd held out until 1945, living on fresh air? That's still the point. Unless the landscape is littered with private armies, there's no victory going to happen in situations like this. And I just prefer not to live in that kind of landscape. People in places like Congo and Colombia will vouch for my wisdom."

In Warsaw? There, things were basically hopeless. Short of holding out until the allies got there, they had no chance whatsoever of survival. Elsewhere, unencumbered with the disadvantages faced by the resistance in Warsaw things are less hopeless. Groups fighting a guerrilla war against a standard organized army aren't fighting for victory so much as they're fighting to make it so expensive for the other guy that he gives up and goes home.

No one wants to live in a situation like that. But if you're choices are fight and probably die or be enslaved and probably die or hide out and hope you don't die but maybe die anyway or run and maybe die on your way out your don't really have any good options.


"Well, you do kind of have to rely on your fellow voters to vote against them too. Just another bit of that collective/individual conundrum. Individuals don't/can't run the collective, no matter how much they'd like to and how hard they try. We all just contribute."

Relying on your fellow voters is a scary thing. Half of them, in the US at least, don't bother to vote for one reason or another and most of the other half is busy voting against whoever they hate more, to paraphrase that delightful Onion piece someone posted a few days ago.


"And I wouldn't really want to just at the moment. As long as the government is at least nominally under public control, I don't have much of a problem with it being armed."

Personally, I'm all for disarming the government.


"A liberal democracy with a somewhat regulated capitalist economy isn't exactly my idea of utopia, but it also isn't exactly something ripe for the picking by a Franco or Hitler or Kim, or likely to become such a thing without a lot of people missing a lot of opportunities to prevent it happening."

Maybe, maybe not. All it would take is a big terrorist attack or two and then who knows what kind of crazy stuff could get passed in response. They wouldn't even have to be huge 9/11 type attacks. I'm sort of surprised that Al Qaeda or whoever hasn't done a couple of one man suicide bombings in New York or D.C. Can you imagine the things the government could do in response to that with basically the full support of the public?


"Indeed we do agree, at least on the outcome. And the unfortunate thing is that maybe people like the Warsaw uprisers really didn't wait too long. Some things just simply can't be done by an individual or a few individuals; they call for collective action on a large scale. People like buddy were and are either too stupid to figure it out until someone else got hurt and they saw the writing on the wall, or just didn't/don't care when it was happening to someone else.

I can't resist. First they came for ...

It's those "first" ones that have to be seen as problematic. Once they come for them, it's certainly too late for them and there's a good chance it's too late for everybody else.

Nonetheless, I'm not seeing this happening anywhere nearby in the near future. Although if Bush is elected again, one never knows. An important opportunity to avoid being come for would certainly have been missed."

When it comes down to it, collectives are still made up of individuals and while collective action on a large scale might be required to get something done, it's still the individuals that have to make the choice to work with the collective to get it done.

People like buddy are too stupid to see it coming and do something about it. Hell, as long as the guy buddy voted for is doing it, he'll probably support him while they're dragging him off to the camps. But hopefully everyone isn't that stupid, otherwise we're screwed in the long run anyway.

The uprisers in Warsaw waited far too long before resisting. Once they were penned in and virtually unarmed it was only a matter of time. Eleven million people is a lot of people. If even a hundredth of them resisted violently when they had the chance, who knows what would have happened. It certainly couldn't have turned out worse than it did for them.

[DoNotRefill]

85. while guerillas rarely win wars....

"Under what conceivable circumstances would those resisters have WON -- have NOT DIED? Can we think of ANY such circumstances? "

governments fighting insurgencies often lose them.

[TexasMexican]

74. "me, I plan to make sure the fascists don't have the guns to shoot me."

really, how do you plan on accomplishing that?

Do you have some plan to disarm all the militaries of the world?

So what pray tell is iverglas' plan for world peace?

[DoNotRefill]

83. The fascists are only effective...

when they have control of a government. Given that Governments are exempt from gun control laws that are in place on their people, well, I'm sure you get the point.

It's a potential disaster to see to it that the State maintains a monopoly on the use of force.

I agree that we should do everything to make sure that they never come for us. But is they are going to come for us, I want to make it as expensive for them as possible. That requires guns in the hands of the people.

[DoNotRefill]

82. Don't forget....

they were only able to end the uprising by leveling the ghetto, while flooding the sewers with water, and gassing the high spots.

No matter how you look at it, the deaths of the Warsaw Ghetto defenders was no more horrible than the deaths of the people in the gas chambers and the poison gas vans and at places like Babi Yar.

As for the urban terrain argument, the Polish Army was free to choose their terrain....and the site of the later Warsaw Ghetto Uprising WAS in their TAOR.

[DoNotRefill]

81. Everything I've read...

states that they started out with a total of fewer than 20 guns TOTAL (rifles, shotguns, and handguns)at the beginning of the uprising. They captured the vast majority of their weapons from the Germans, and the Polish Home Army smuggled some stuff into them once they started fighting.

It took the germans longer to supress the uprising than it took them to conquer Poland in the first place. And those few hundred active participants killed more Nazis than the 10 million PLUS people the Germans killed in the Holocaust (jews, gays, gypsies, et cetera).

[DoNotRefill]

25. there's a difference between...

thinking about violence and being ready for it if it should happen.

I carry a gun. To me, it's just as much a part of my standard everyday stuff as my keys, wallet, and cellphone. I take all of that stuff with me when I go out, even if I'm not planning on spending money, making calls, or getting in my car. It's part of my "kit", just as pants and a belt and socks are part of my "kit".

[Liberal Classic]

49. Laser Control

I'm not going to tell you about my unlicensed particle accelerator. :P

[NMDemDist2]

4. welcome to DU mikey

:hi:

[MikeyMoore]

7. Thanks

:-)

[Hammie]

41. People have and carry weapons

For the same reason that they have smoke detectors, fire extiguishers, seatbelts, life insurance and all sorts of other things they hope they never need.

When you finally need it, it is too late to get it.

Get it?

[NMDemDist2]

3. my attention to my surroundings eom

[MikeG]

8. Sometimes I carry a big chip on my shoulder. OK?

[PragMantisT]

10. I carry a switchblade.

It comes in handy for all kinds of needs. One handed operation is very useful. But I have somehow lost my 2nd amendment right to carry it.

Anyone wanna start a NSBA? - National SwitchBlade Association, through which we will insist that everyone carry a switchblade and work to defeat any politician who threatens our uncompromising stance on the situation.

And I keep a large steel pipe in the truck.

Firearms are so impersonal; they are for pussies who want to harm people more than an arms length away.

[TexasMexican]

13. I'm with you.

I personally wouldnt carry a switchblade, but I dont see why there is a legal difference between switchblades and butterfly knives compared to other fixed or folding blade knives.

In most places its illegal to carry switchblades and butterfly knives while its legal to carry fixed or folding knives.

I personally dont see the difference, I dont think any one type of knife is more deadly than the other. So I dont see why the need to make carrying certain ones illegal.

I also have a long metal tube in the trunk of my car. Not really a pipe it was from a piece of furniture but I think its pretty cool so I kept it. I also have a piece of driftwood that I found on the beach, makes a good walking/hiking stick so I kept it too.

[PragMantisT]

18. I can't figure out the switchblade ban either.

I think it has to do with the rebellious fifties and punks from that time. If I am not mistaken, it is legal for a one armed person to carry a switchblade; one armed people have trouble with folding knives.

My pipe is actually half of the upright from those shelves they use in walk-in refrigerators. It has a chrome finish and looks menacing.

[TexasMexican]

21. Your probably right about the fifties and whatever...

hoping that by banning thier weapon of choice it would ban them.

The government did the same thing with drugs, they hoped that by banning marijuana it would get rid of the Mexicans.

[DoNotRefill]

32. It's the automatic one-handed action....

kind of stupid, really....

[TexasMexican]

42. definately stupid considering...

that fixed blade knives have automatic one handed action aswell. You only need one hand to pull it out of its sheath and use it.

[DoNotRefill]

33. I once got into a fight with a guy that had a butterfly....

He was doing all of that fancy twirling stuff apparently as an intimidation thing, so I punched him once in the larnyx and ended the fight.

This was a LOOOOONG time ago. The look on his face was priceless...especially as he turned purple. ;)

[slackmaster]

35. FYI California law considers Balisongs and similar knives switchblades

Even though they have no spring.

See http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=639-653.1 and scroll down to 653k.

[slackmaster]

28. I can open my Buck knife with one hand and it's much safer to handle

Also carrying a switchblade would be a felony in my state.

[DoNotRefill]

37. around here...

folks open their bucks one-handed by grasping the back of the blade with two fingers, and then snapping the wrist so that gravity and g-force swings the handle into place. Y'all do it the same way?

[slackmaster]

40. I use my thumb and middle finger to get the blade going

Then finish the operation with just the thumb. Although the knife lacks a thumb tab or thumb hole, it opens easily enough that way. Some people can open them with just a thumb, but the action has to be really slick and/or your thumb exceptionally strong.

Usually I just use both hands because it seems a little safer, but I've never hurt myself with my method. Having long fingers helps.

[FeebMaster]

19. Here's an interesting one I hadn't heard of until today.

The Sjambok.

http://www.donrearic.com/mightysjambok.html


on edit:

I don't carry one or anything. Cold Steel sells them for around $10 though.

[DoNotRefill]

23. just a gun and car keys and a leatherman

the leatherman has a itty bitty blade, but it's not for self-defense, it's just for cutting things.

[iverglas]

46. you guys

the leatherman has a itty bitty blade, but it's not for self-defense, it's just for cutting things

You all seem to encounter an awful lot of things in the course of a day that need cutting. Are you all warehouse workers, or fence-menders, or sumpthin? How much stuff can one encounter between one's front door and one's office computer, or while sitting at one's office computer, that needs cutting??

Ever consider just growing a useful thumbnail?

Don't get me wrong. I've got nothing against carrying little knives around. My dad always had one of those combo knife/nailfile/corkscrew/bottleopener things about his person. I've just never met a woman who didn't leave the house without her Swiss Army cutting tools ...

[NorthernSpy]

48. "Ever consider just growing a useful thumbnail?"

You mean, like a coke nail? Nah -- might lead to drug testing at work.

Although I suppose a guy could grow all ten nails and claim them part of his religion. I've seen some metal overlays that might make formidable weapons/tools.

[iverglas]

51. the ex-c.v.'s aunt Jan

I met her at the Texas wedding. She had abandoned the use of her left hand in favour of growing fingernails. I wonder whether I could find a photo of some comparables ...

... oh dear. You can probably imagine what comes up when you ask google images for long fingernails. Better try it with a filter on, just for practicality.

Well, this is about the closest thing I could find.



Only hers twisted and turned and went off in weird directions. And she obviously used a lot of that inexcusably polluting polish stuff.

Anyhow, they were no good at all for cutting things with. I mean, unless maybe you broke one off and held it firmly in the other hand. Then you could probably have impaled someone on it.

Naive me, I don't even really know what a coke nail is and is for. That c.v. preferred IV and looked down his nose at practitioners of other methods, ditto the hookers in the neighbourhood, so I only ever got (in my car, in the basement ceiling joists ...) / get (in my garden) to see the syringes. Disposable, freely available at any pharmacy, and also available free from the local mobile needle exchange, for those with the courtesy/brains to go there, that ruling out most of the users in question.

[NorthernSpy]

54. why, scoop and snort, mate!

... holding the nail palm-side-up, like a little spoon.

It was a teacher of mine in high school who told me all about coke nails and their use. He was growing one because he enjoyed worrying his boss -- at least, that's what he told me.


Mary

[Liberal Classic]

50. Ironically

New computers are trussed up tighter than a victorian virgin. You couldn't do my job (when I had one) with a thumbnail unless you had those extra-long razor-sharp guys from Saturday kung-fu movies.

[iverglas]

52. well I must say

there are not infrequent occasions when I'm tempted to take a blade to my computer. Not for its health. Perhaps it's as well that I don't come equipped with one. Knife, that is.

Ah ... you refer to the computer boxes. I find cheap ballpoint pens work for things like that; cheap, because they might not survive the trip. But that's because I don't carry a knife around, and I'm too lazy to walk to the kitchen and get one.

[Liberal Classic]

57. I find ball peen hammers to be effective

at relieving computer stress. :)

Where I used to work we uncrated a lot of computers. We needed tools. Sharp tools. Sharp, dangerous looking tools.

[DoNotRefill]

55. "Ever consider just growing a useful thumbnail?"

what do you think I use the leatherman to cut??? ;)

It's handy for string, shrink-wrap, tape, whatever. I use the built-in wire cutters to cut the steel bands on ammo crates. The metal file makes a decent emory board. It's got a couple of different kinds of screwdrivers, an oyster fork, a butter knife (suitable for spreading, not cutting, since it has no edge on it) a can opener, wire stripper, cork screw, needlenose pliers (very handy for splinters), a pair of real scissors, et cetera. My leatherman even has a det cord crimper built in. I don't often use it, but it never hurts to have it. All this in a package less than 1/3 the size of a pack of cigarettes, that weighs only a few ounces. The ONLY thing it's really missing is a duct-tape dispenser, but that would make it kinda bulky.

[alwynsw]

78. Try the real world, Iverglas

Most folks don't spend their days at a computer. Have you forgotten warehouse workers, retail workers, farmers - the list is nearly endless - that have need of a pocket knife or other similar tool for opening boxes, bags, seals, etc.? Personally, when I lived on the farm (where I grew up) I kept one blade of my Case particularly sharp for the lvestock. I used it for everything from minor surgeries such as cutting out thorns that had festered in the cattle to nutting hogs (castrating for you city folk).

Nowadays I always carry a Swiss Army Executive. The blade is just right for cleaning fingernails and the scissors are dandy for quickie moustache trims. Of course, I once used it at a so-called sporting goods store in California to cut one of those ubiquitous plastic ties which resulted in a police call by the store manager because I was "brandishing" a weapon. I guess she thought I was going to one inch scissorr someone to death. The cops were not amused at her alarm.

[slackmaster]

27. Buck 110T folding knife in my pocket everywhere I can

Obviously not in courthouses or on airplanes, but it's light enough to be unobtrusive and perfectly legal to carry concealed in California.

Glock G17 pistol near where I sleep, loaded and in condition 3. I live alone and lock it up when children are present.

M1 Garand rifle in the office with a clip (yes, an en bloc clip) of ball ammo nearby for major home defense. I would rather deploy and AR-15 for this purpose, but its status as an "assault weapon" makes it too valuable so I use the much more powerful M1. Go figure.

Aluminum baseball bat near the front door. Also a BB gun in case of problem dogs or other furry animals.

[NorthernSpy]

53. pitchfork

Oh, I dunno. I haven't given much thought to self defense. I guess that up here, we're a little short on things to defend ourselves from.

I do take a pitchfork along when I work in the far field, because of that guy who was spying on me, but I don't think he's been around lately. So I'd call that an


(gaaahh! A big jet just flew REALLY low overhead, so of course everybody had to run out and look...)


Oh, yes: aside from an anomalous episode like w/ that guy, self defense is not a daily concern for me, so I don't make a point of carrying weapons as a rule.


Mary

[mosin]

58. CRKT M18-04R and Fox Labs OC spray

I carry my Columbia River Knife and Tool M18-04R almost every day. It has a flipper that enables easy one-handed opening with a flick of the index finger. It has a 3.63" blade. I also have a smaller, dressier CRKT Tighe Tac that I carry occasionally in lieu of the M18.

I don't think of them as weapons, though. If I had reason to pull my knife, I'd have reason to use my firearm. The OC spray is for non-life-threatening confrontations.

[NorthernSpy]

63. er...

I don't think of them as weapons, though. If I had reason to pull my knife, I'd have reason to use my firearm. The OC spray is for non-life-threatening confrontations.


Hm. Mosin, I'm not quite sure what you mean in this case by a non- life-threatening confrontation. What would be an example of a confrontation in which you don't consider yourself to be at grave physical risk, but pull a weapon anyway?


Mary

[mosin]

67. Non-life-threatening confrontations

One may only use lethal force in response to a reasonably perceived threat to inflict death or serious bodily injury. So if I'm attacked by an armed individual or a gang of unarmed individuals, I can probably use lethal force to defend myself within the confines of the law. If a single, unarmed individual of average size attacks me or tries to steal my briefcase, I may not use lethal force to defend myself or my property -- nor would I want to. I may, however, use OC spray. Unless you are the very rare person who is allergic to Oleoresin Capsicum, it's not going to kill you.

When I go running, OC spray is usually the only thing that I carry -- other than my ID and my cellphone. On one occasion I did have to spray an aggressive dog who chased me down the street and tried to take my leg off.

[NorthernSpy]

80. asthma and pepperspray

If a single, unarmed individual of average size attacks me or tries to steal my briefcase, I may not use lethal force to defend myself or my property -- nor would I want to. I may, however, use OC spray. Unless you are the very rare person who is allergic to Oleoresin Capsicum, it's not going to kill you.


Okay, I see.

One thing, though. While I doubt many people are actually allergic to capsaicin, I do want to point out that if OC is sprayed near a person who has asthma, the result can be severe airway constriction -- even if that person wasn't the intended target of the spray (probably not a lot of asthmatic muggers about). Wind faciliates spray drift, as you may imagine, and it's not impossible to end up inhaling aerosolized or deflected spray.

Me, I wouldn't consider carrying OC because the chance of accidentally breathing in a bit of it is too great (I have asthma). Some people have gone into full respiratory arrest and died after inhaling this stuff.

Of course, I'm sure you have good judgement and everything. I brought this up because I want people who read this to keep in mind that pepper spray is actually a fairly hazardous substance for a significant percentage of the population, and that if people want to use it as a self defense tool, I hope that they'll keep the possible risks in mind.


Mary

[Fescue4u]

70. Benchmade auto-stryker

Of course it has spent its entire life cutting boxes, fruit, packages, tape or the occasional stick of wood when Im bored, I keep it sharp enough to go into protecter mode should the need ever arise.

Heres a nice pic, although I have the tanto version.

http://216.71.158.68/webcat/119130ness22.shtml

[LibLabUK]

79. I find that there's nothing better....

for opening the mail, milk cartons and those little packets of ketchup than my trusty flamberge...



Don't go anywhere without this in my pocket... can be a bit a problem when I'm riding the tube though.:silly: