Clyde's ban on guns in parks is right on target

[JohnLocke]

Clyde ban on guns in parks is right on target
Friday, June 4, 2004
The News-Messenger (Ohio)
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Clyde City Council members as the people's representatives in a charter-form of government took advantage of an opportunity to protect residents -- one that most other cities might not have at this stage.
Clyde Council and the city's administration boldly decided to ban concealed weapons in the city's parks despite the possible threat of legal challenges to that decision.
It's a common sense step that most cities would like to follow, but apparently cannot at this time.
(...)
As a result, anyone found carrying a deadly weapon in one of Clyde's six city parks could actually find themselves in jail.
Anyone caught by police violating the ordinance will be charged with "possession of a dangerous weapon in a park," a first-degree misdemeanor and could carry a sentence of up to six months in jail or $1,000 in fines.
(...)
Weapons in public parks are simply invitations to disaster. Competitive events and the mix of groups and ages often create situations in which emotions can boil over. There's no reason to invite tragedy by allowing weapons in parks.
Let's hope the rest of the state is as smart as the public officials in Clyde.
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Read the rest here.

[OpSomBlood]

1. It's a good thing that muggings and rapes never happen in parks.

n/t

[CO Liberal]

2. But Shootings Do

When assholes bring guns into parks.

[OpSomBlood]

3. What about parks with shooting ranges?

Bit of a confusing detail there.

[TX-RAT]

4. Never seen a city park with a range.

Doesn't mean they don't exist. Most cases discharging a firearm inside city limits is criminal.

[OpSomBlood]

5. As well it should be except in self-defense or a controlled environment.

Lots of county parks in Florida with ranges.

[TX-RAT]

7. Are the ranges operated by the county?

[OpSomBlood]

9. Yes.

n/t

[FatSlob]

6. The ban is illegal, it will be overturned.

What idiots. Making the parks "criminal protection zones" When I visit, I'll carry.

[CO Liberal]

10. Not Necessarily

Guns are banned in the parks in the City of Colorado Springs.

[mosin]

11. It is illegal in Ohio...

under the recently passed HB12. Section 9 of HB 12 prevents cities and counties from banning firearms anywhere they are permitted under state law. That includes city parks.

[TX-RAT]

15. Firearms are banned from any city maintained property here.

Buildings, parks, lakes.

[FatSlob]

16. The City of Colorado Springs is not subject to the laws of Ohio.

The laws of Ohio state that Cities and Towns or any other political subdivision of the State cannot make such restrictions or enforce them.

[TX-RAT]

17. Is it legal to carry concealed in the courthouse?

[CO Liberal]

19. Of Course They Aren't

I was offerring them as an example of a place where carrying a gun in a city park is illegal.

[slackmaster]

8. Tempest in a teapot

It's Clyde's business, and as long as the ordinance doesn't conflict with state or federal law who besides Clyde residents or a few people who might want to visit there and carry would care?

Clyde's armed criminals, if it has any, are surely more of a threat to public safety than a licensed person, sane and sober, carrying a gun legally. The bad guys won't change their behavior as a result of this silly law.

[mosin]

12. Tempest in a teapot...

It does conflict with the new state law. The cities trying this will all be slapped down.

[CO Liberal]

18. It's Truly Ironic

Most pro-gunners are conservatives, and conservatives favor smaller government and local rule. Yet they get moronic laws passed to circumvent the will of the people.

They did it here in Colorado. They're doing it in Ohio.

[mosin]

21. Local rule

Local rule is great in principle, but local rule cannot be allowed to trump civil rights. We're not talking about private property rights here. We're talking about cities trying to prohibit firearms on public property. Public property must be available to all on equal terms. These cities could just as easily claim the "local" right to keep us black folk out of their parks. Fortunately for me, state and federal law prevents them from doing so. They can't ban free speech in public parks either. Does that violate the principle of local rule?

[OpSomBlood]

24. I wanted to bring up race, but was reluctant.

What's to stop some backwoods town in Mississippi from putting a ban on black people in public places to a vote? There's a good chance it would pass with a majority.

Majority rule isn't always a great idea, especially when it comes to our personal liberties.

[TX-RAT]

27. Really stretching here.

Anybody can go to the park, Just don't bring a gun.

[OpSomBlood]

28. Local laws can't supercede state law.

If Ohio's CCW law allows for concealed-carry in public places, public places must allow it.

[TX-RAT]

31. Not familiar with Ohio law but

In TX alcohol is legal, countys can vote to go dry or stay dry. Does Ohio have dry county's? What would be the difference?

[CO Liberal]

25. Public Property IS Available to All On Equal Terms

Everyong is prohibited from bring firearms into a city park, regardless of race, creed, or national origin.....

:-)

[TX-RAT]

26. No discrimination that i see.

Not much difference than a pet leash law.
Come to the park, leave your pet on a leash.
come to the park leave your guns at home.
Come to the park leave your alcohol at home.

[CO Liberal]

32. The Problem Here, TX-RAT...

...is that you and I are looking at this logically. Many pro-gunners are too blinded by their attitudes toward guns to think logically.

[TX-RAT]

36. What did they do before concealed carry

Bolt the doors and stay in the house, NO they did the same thing their doing now, just without guns.

[CO Liberal]

37. And They Could Do Them WITHOUT The Guns

Right?

[OpSomBlood]

13. Just what I want, a public place where criminals know you're unarmed.

Sounds exciting!

[RoeBear]

14. Anyone who thinks this is a good idea...

...should go read the parable of the sheep.

The wolves aren't paying attention to the law.

[MrBenchley]

20. And after we stop laughing about the sheep shit...

It's still a good idea.

[OpSomBlood]

22. Yes, "Criminal-Safe Zones" are absolutely brilliant.

That way, attractive young women can jog through the park knowing that no rapist would ever feel threatened there. That would be stellar.

[MrBenchley]

23. Yes, if only you were there to save them

with your little popgun....

[OpSomBlood]

29. Maybe they could save themselves.

It's amazing to me that many of the same people who are in favor of female empowerment are also opposed to concealed-carry. The two seem to go hand-in-hand.

Rapes have gone down dramatically in Florida since the passage of our CCW law.

[MrBenchley]

And maybe they could enjoy the park

without having to clutch a popgun neurotically....

"Rapes have gone down dramatically in Florida since the passage of our CCW law."
Not even close to true....CCW was passed in 1987. In 1987, there were 4,823 rapes in Florida...in 2003, 6,323 rapes....

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/fsac/Crime_Trends/sex_offenses/forcible.asp

[OpSomBlood]

34. Check your numbers.

Using your link:

1987:
Population: 12,043,608
Total Forcible Rape Rate: 50.0 per 100,000

2003:
Population: 17,071,508
Total Forcible Rape Rate: 39.4 per 100,000

It peaked in 1992 and has decreased every year since. Nice try...math must not be your forte.

[MrBenchley]

35. Gee, op....

Why did the number RISE from 1987 to 1992 if the CCW law had any fucking thing to do with it?

And for that matter, the rate rose from 1995 to 1996.

Guess math IS my strong point....and horsecrap is yours.

[MrBenchley]

33. And maybe they could enjoy the park

without having to clutch a popgun neurotically....

"Rapes have gone down dramatically in Florida since the passage of our CCW law."
Not even close to true....CCW was passed in 1987. In 1987, there were 4,823 rapes in Florida...in 2003, 6,323 rapes....

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/fsac/Crime_Trends/sex_offenses/forcible.asp

[Romulus]

39. statistical tom-foolery that fools no one

http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/fsac/Crime_Trends/sex_offenses/forcible.asp

1987 "forcible rape" rate per 100k: 50.0
1987 population: 12,043,608


2003 "forcible rape" rate per 100k: 39.4
2003 population: 17,071,508

[RoeBear]

30. Anyone that thinks a...

...'NO GUNS ALLOWED' sign will stop crime is a hopeless dreamer.

[minavasht]

38. I have a question.

If i have a CCW license and decide to leave my gun at home and somebody harm me in the park, can I sue the city?